CDC Finally Saying Stop Vaping THC

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AttyPops

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Here's the CDC's media statement at the time of the first death:

Pulmonary Disease Associated with E-cigarettes

Here's the entire statement:

Yeah, but none of that is factually nor procedurally incorrect.

Remember, none of these health people are ever going to suggest you inhale anything other than clean air. They also worry about smog and ozone levels.

But that's not the same as banning flavors, nor banning all vaping. They didn't say that. See the diff?

At first, at the first death, all they knew was it was "vaping related". The rest unfolds over time.

And I'm not being pedantic for no reason here. I want to ensure, as a citizen, that the CDC is operating in a scientific and epidemiological way, not a political way.

EDIT: And see Eskie's excellent post above.
 

Eskie

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Ah, if I might,

This tragic death in Illinois reinforces the serious risks associated with e-cigarette products. vaping exposes users to many different substances for which we have little information about related harms – including flavorings, nicotine, cannabinoids, and solvents. CDC has been warning about the identified and potential dangers of e-cigarettes and vaping since these devices first appeared. E-cigarettes are not safe for youth, young adults, pregnant women, or adults who do not currently use tobacco products.

That was on August 23. So they did specifically mention cannabis to start, and there is nothing out of line with what we say around here every day, if you're a smoker, vaping is good, if you're not a smoker, why take it up?

There is nothing inaccurate in that statement. It's how it was teased apart and used by others that was the primary issue leading to current events.

Edit: @AttyPops you keep beating me by 2 minutes every time I hit post reply
 

Horselady154

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Ah, if I might,

This tragic death in Illinois reinforces the serious risks associated with e-cigarette products. Vaping exposes users to many different substances for which we have little information about related harms – including flavorings, nicotine, cannabinoids, and solvents. CDC has been warning about the identified and potential dangers of e-cigarettes and vaping since these devices first appeared. E-cigarettes are not safe for youth, young adults, pregnant women, or adults who do not currently use tobacco products.

That was on August 23. So they did specifically mention cannabis to start, and there is nothing out of line with what we say around here every day, if you're a smoker, vaping is good, if you're not a smoker, why take it up?

There is nothing inaccurate in that statement. It's how it was teased apart and used by others that was the primary issue leading to current events.

Edit: @AttyPops you keep beating me by 2 minutes every time I hit post reply

It's like saying that eating exposes eaters to many different substances for which we have little information about related harms -- including salmonella, various fats and oils, meat products that have not been approved by the USDA and Tide pods (can't forget about those). Since we cannot guarantee complete safety from eating, all eating should cease. Government, in its ultimate wisdom, will let you know when you can start eating again.
 

AttyPops

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It's like saying that eating exposes eaters to many different substances for which we have little information about related harms -- including salmonella, various fats and oils, meat products that have not been approved by the USDA and Tide pods (can't forget about those). Since we cannot guarantee complete safety from eating, all eating should cease. Government, in its ultimate wisdom, will let you know when you can start eating again.
With full respect, no it isn't "like that".

There's other sources of nic, and vaping isn't eating: eating is as important long term as breathing. Technically, if we locked you in a room, with food and water and no vape, you'd live.

And we know more about salmonella, meat, etc. Tide pods, IDK, but they're not designed to be eaten.

Look. I get that we're all mad. Me too. And I don't buy into the flavor ban, vaping ban, or anything. It's just that to me, the CDC's approach is very different than the rest of the stuff. And that "stuff" includes two things, the illness crisis and the "save the children" agenda.

I want to know that the CDC is handling things properly, not politically. And the reasons I want to make sure I'm not confusing things and departments is this: I expect the CDC to be able to track contaminants in the supply chains properly and without bias or judgement. Of course they operate often with an abundance of caution.

But even if I think my romaine lettuce is safe, I'm not surprised if the CDC (or even the FDA) says "throw it out, too dangerous right now".
 

Beamslider

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I don't agree that the CDC is handling this properly.....

People have been vaping nicotine for years with no major issue like this one and no known deaths from it.

The current problem from all indications are linked to the usage of street bought prefilled cartridges that seem to be either THC or CBD.

Painting this as a vaping issue without making the distinction and telling everyone including people that have already been vaping for years without issue to stop is not proper handling.
 

bombastinator

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If you had experienced Lyme disease, you wouldn't have the same benevolent opinion of the CDC.
My step sister was diagnosed with chronic Lyme after having spent 10 years in a mental institution and 20 more on public assistance because of disability due to various associated ailments.

Same old issue. “This group is less than perfect! They must be destroyed!” The problem is the alternates offered instead aren’t just worse they’re orders of magnitude worse for everyone except the person telling people to do the yelling. They generally get money or power out of it.

Expecting inhuman levels of perfection from humans is a waste of time.

Extolling them to improve doesn’t hurt though.
 

Horselady154

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My step sister was diagnosed with chronic Lyme after having spent 10 years in a mental institution and 20 more on public assistance because of disability due to various associated ailments. Same old issue. “This group is less than perfect! They must be destroyed!” The problem is the alternates offered instead aren’t just worse they’re orders of magnitude worse for everyone except the person telling people to do the yelling. They generally get money or power out of it.

Expecting inhuman levels of perfection from humans is a waste of time.
The CDC is not a form of government that someone is suggesting be overthrown. It is a corrupt government agency.
 

jandrew

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Ah, if I might, ...
And if I might:
This tragic death in Illinois reinforces the serious risks associated with e-cigarette products.

That's the kind of conflation some of us are talking about --- epidemiologically, they knew at that time that the 193 cases at that date, and this death in particular, were not related to the general e-cigarette usage that had been going on for over a decade by millions of poeple around world. Do they say that? No. Instead they release a media statement framing this death within the serious risks associated with e-cigarette products.
 

bombastinator

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I don't agree that the CDC is handling this properly.....
I’m not sure anyone has said that. That it was handled improperly seems to be a more or less universal opinion here
People have been vaping nicotine for years with no major issue like this one and no known deaths from it.

The current problem from all indications are linked to the usage of street bought prefilled cartridges that seem to be either THC or CBD.

Painting this as a vaping issue without making the distinction and telling everyone including people that have already been vaping for years without issue to stop is not proper handling.
True.
 

bombastinator

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The CDC is not a form of government that someone is suggesting be overthrown. It is a corrupt government agency.
There is a difference between corrupted and corrupt. The first implies the possibility of repair, the second does not.

If it turns out some organization or group got into the CDC they’re in for a world of hurt. The CDC is a strategic defense asset. They execute people for that stuff.
 

AttyPops

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And if I might:
This tragic death in Illinois reinforces the serious risks associated with e-cigarette products.

That's the kind of conflation some of us are talking about --- epidemiologically, they knew at that time that the 193 cases at that date, and this death in particular, were not related to the general e-cigarette usage that had been going on for over a decade by millions of poeple around world. Do they say that? No. Instead they release a media statement framing this death within the serious risks associated with e-cigarette products.
It was (and maybe still is) "associated with e-cig products". 87% of the illness-tracked products are CBD/THC types, and the remainder are allegedly nic-vapes.

But they've been pretty clear all along that this looks like a contaminant issue. That's not to be confused with saying "all vaping is bad". Nor did they state what their concerns really are.

It's true that we all should be "concerned" about the lack of standards and regulation...and even the AVA is saying that regulation and standards are a good idea, if I remember properly.

Maybe I'm wrong. But I just don't read that statement as saying "all e-cigs are bad and we've always thought so". I do wish they'd have had less spin in their release. I guess I agree with that to some extent, but I read the statement's inflection differently than many I guess.
 

Horselady154

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Communication (and associated perception) is so damn hard. ;)
For an individual just tossing something out, yes. For an organization who well knows that their statements will have a huge impact on untold numbers of people, not so much. It's not too difficult to have others read what you wrote, and it's better if those reading know nothing about the subject, and ask what they discern when they read it. Heck, I did that when I wrote software courses. THIS IS THE CDC, for .... sake! There is NO excuse for their misleading announcements.
 

AttyPops

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THIS IS THE CDC, for .... sake! There is NO excuse for their misleading announcements.
Agreed.

And if I agree that they can word things better, maybe we can all agree that we as readers need to avoid projecting too much into it, because it might not be there.

I can see where many would consider that portion of the statement a bit inflammatory and unnecessary. They should probably just publish the facts and not their hand-wringing concerns.

EDIT:
But I don't read that statement much differently than the "We don't know the long-term effects of vaping" except when we say it, we're usually talking about nic-vaping (until recently).
 
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