I was a biochem major... we really didn't learn anything about debating... just science.
China's Rise/Downfall of the US
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Where are these figures coming from? I'm not going to argue with you but you can't neglect the fact that the Middle East was divided up arbitrarily by Europeans during the 20th century. You also forget the crusades in which hundreds of thousands of Muslims and Jews were butchered. I'm not saying Islam isn't guilty but I am saying that the West also had a role in the current mess!
So are you saying it isn't worth learning about debate? (<----that's a strawman argument in response to your comment above, because not once did you make a comment about whether learning of debate was worthwhile or not. That's also why you could not provide a direct quote where I had ever mentioned patriotism.)
Nice chatting with you. Gotta run!
Wha... haha I guess I make too many assumptions. This thread has gotten way out of topic..... as usual it's turned into another example of internet hate. I'm going to stop posting....
Strawman arguments have nothing to do with assumptions. It is merely creating an argument or claim out of thin air, while pretending someone else actually made a point that YOU made up, and then proceeding to knock the 'strawman' argument down, in order to 'gain points,' so to speak.
Is it hate or revelation?
I get you now. Thanks for explaining it to me - I never heard about it until now. I guess I was guilty of doing that but then again I could have just been reading the posts wrong. I wasn't doing intentionally....
If every one is going to quit, I am going to take my popcorn somewhere else.
It was INEVITABLE that the Chinese economy would displace the US economy as the economic engine of the world. As the standard of living of the 1.3 billion Chinese rises, elementary mathematics can easily demonstrate those 1.3 billion Chinese consumers would evenually outspend the .3 billion American consumers. The economic collapse merely accelerated the process, leaving some claiming 2008 was the first year in history the Chinese auto manufacturers outsold American auto manufacturers.
(Insert assorted statistics on how many Muslims killed and enslaved others, as well as statistics on how many Christians killed and enslaved others, when we all know if religion didn't exist, we would have found other reasons to attack, rape, rob, pillage, enslave, maim and kill each other, etc, whether for reasons of race, nationality, handedness, eye color, sexual orientation, etc and so on.)
Discuss.
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While we're at it we can also have a discussion on which e-cig really is the best.
In the course of world history, North Americans are infants. We've lived pampered lives with higher and higher standards of living. Even the poorest citizens can look to some standard of healthcare. And the homeless can at least find clean water. Without the need to strive for better ways to do things, we've only looked for "easier ways". And that will be our downfall.
In other words, we've had it good up until now. But if you go back to world history again, you will see that this NEVER lasts forever. I'm sure the Romans in their heydey never thought they would lose their place as the world's top power. The downfall of the US as THE world power is inevitable.
You can argue all you want about how oppressive the Chinese government can be... and while your at it.. wander over to the C-Span thread and read up on how oppressive (and deaf) our government has become. But, as much as we may dislike how the Chinese government works, it does seem to be working to their benefit. The fact that are there are 1.3 billion of them and .3 billion of us, and they don't depend on a military based entirely on volunteers, and their economy is growing while ours shrinking, kinda brings everything into focus.
Just a few rambling thoughts on the issue.
Their economy hinges on ours as most of the worlds economy does. the relationship is symbiotic, which is a relatively new development, there was a time when there was no world economy so no one knows exactly how this will play out, years ago countries would just take what they wanted which is no longer the case, now most countries do buisness with each other, which in turn kind of makes every country beholden to the next.
American $$$ is being given to China every day! Just look at every dollar you have spent on e-cigs. That money went to China instead of staying in the US. Now factor in all the electronic crap, cell phones, stereos, computers and just about everything else we Americans rely upon. That money goes to China never to be seen again!
Yet what does China buy from us? What does ANY country buy from us?
It is sad to say...but Hollywood is America's biggest export! The movies we make here are better than anywhere else in the world. But what other American product can you say that about?
So what will happen with another 20 to 50 years of this way of life? America will have no more money to spend and every other country will be financially better off than we are! Face the facts! 8-o
Yet what does China buy from us? What does ANY country buy from us?
It is sad to say...but Hollywood is America's biggest export! The movies we make here are better than anywhere else in the world. But what other American product can you say that about?
So what will happen with another 20 to 50 years of this way of life? America will have no more money to spend and every other country will be financially better off than we are! Face the facts! 8-o
True dat. The 400 years of American (WASP centered and male centered for most of that time) does not even begin to compare to the history of the European people.
The slaves in this country didn't. Neither have the poor. Neither did women or children for many years.
Our poor can too. It's just at the very last minute, by ambulance, directly to the emergency room. It's quite expensive that way.
I don't think looking for the easier way leads to downfall, or at least, not in every case. Travel by car is easier and much quicker than travel by horse. Dishwashers are much easier than hand washing. It appears to me we have maintained the status quo. We knew in the 70s that oil embargos could cause upheaval in our society. Yet, after 30 years, the auto manufacturers didn't show much interest in building cars which ran on anything other than gas. The auto makers also fought tooth and nail for years whenever increased fuel efficiency for cars was brought up on Capitol Hill. It appears to me those who held the money and the power, really didn't care to finance change. Perhaps that was their method of taking the easy way out.
Did we? Is being a slave for 30 years to pay off a house 'having it good?" Aren't thier cheaper ways to make homes that would cost less money? Do two people, wihtout kids, really need a 3000 square foot house?
Well we had many wealthy people in this country evangelizing the religion that more government regulation was of Satan, while less government regulation would save "THE CHILDREN," prevent ingrown toenails, cure cancer, and solve the world's problems. The results of that were CRAP mortgage securities being graded by security agencies for resale as "AAA," when they really weren't worth the paper they were written on. Welcome to world economic collapse thanks to the 'more government regulation is EVIL' cabal.
I think in both governments the money is doing the talking. Those who hold the gold write the rules. Screw the people. What do we matter?
Appearrances can be deceiving. From what I understand, it is one of the most heavily polluted countries on the planet. I am not sure how well that will work for them long term. Yet, we have areas like that within our own borders as well.
I don't know that forced military service is beneficial to society. At least with volunteers, we can be reasonably sure those who fight really WANT to be there serving the country.
There were alot of freakish, economically unsoud deals occurring in this country, most of which were NOT regulated. See the earlier references to the false grading of sub-prime mortgage securities. China also didn't have the largest housing bubble in history as we did.
That's because we are so bizarre in this country as to shopping. For some reason, when we go to Wal-mart, we want to pay the absolute lowest price possible. Strange I know, but true.
The right to rebroadcast Jerry Springer episodes?
Nothing now. The aristocrats found cheap labor and less regulation in China, so they outsourced manufacturing there. Thankfully, they didn't do that for call centers. They outsourced those to India instead.
Damn, we ARE going down.
How much would those products cost if they were manufactured here at typical American wages? Would it be more than you are willing to pay?
We have no more money to spend now!
and every other country will be financially better off than we are! Face the facts! 8-o
Well right now those countries are just as screwed as we are. They were stupid enough to trust the wizards of Wall Street. Oh wait...........
Explain why the Church of St. Sophia in Constantinople became a mosque in Istanbul. Why is Turkey Muslim? Why is Syria and Lebanon Muslim? Why is Egypt Muslim? Where are the Coptic Christians? Why are there no Jews in Saudi arabia? There are no Jews in Saudi Arabia because Muhammed commanded there should be no Jews in Saudi Arabia.
If Islam is so peaceful, why are millions of people fleeing the Taliban right now in Pakistan? They're fleeing because they are strict in their implementation of Islam and sharia law (codification of life and deeds of Muhammad and statements of Allah in doctrine). The Taliban IS Islam. They are living according to specific dictats of the world of Allah which is Koran and the orders of Muhammad, his one and only prophet-- the perfect human being all Muslims are to follow.
Jihad existed since Muhammad left Mecca. The history of Jihad is 1400 years old. It's not about political borders drawn on a map. This is an ideological military conquest that's been ongoing since Muhammad left Mecca and is still going on now. This isn't about countries or national identity or treaties. This is about the expansion of Islam through violence and jihadl that's it.
The figures I gave you can be found in history books.
The criticism about the Crusades is a sop to ignorant people who don't know history. the crusaders went to Jerusalem in the middle east after decades and decades of pleading by the Christian communities in the middle east for help because they were being massacred by Jihadists. The Crusades was not a cause. It was a response to Jihad. Some of the Crusaders screwed up and massacred innocent people, but not anywhere near to the extent the Jihadists did. Nowhere near.
There is no apologizing for this; it's wrong. But, they were there to protect the Christian communities from Islam and to take back the conquered lands by Jihad. Why are there Knight's Templars Churches all over Lebanon and Syria? Because they tried to rebuild the Christian culture that had been destroyed by Jihad, yet they were unsuccessful.
Muslim violence is not a response to political frustrations. The refusal of the Palestinians to accept a Palestinian state when it was offered to them no less than three times is proof of this. This is not a political struggle. This is Jihad. It's a1400 years old tactic of war that Islam has used with great success across the world. If you look at the books of Islam, it is clear. All adherents of Islam are required to participate in Jihad. This is a religious obligation. Jihad is violent warfare to expand the boundaries of Islam. In modern times, Jihad is meant to destroy all non-Muslim states and cultures and bring them under the dominion of Islam. This is clearly stated in their religious doctrine: no other religions, no other political systems are acceptable to Islam other than Allah's. What you see today in the Middle East is Jihad and nothing else. We see this in Europe and we see this in the U.S. The liberals who know nothing say that this is frustrated poverty rising up against oppression. How did the Khaybar Jews oppress Muhammad? Muhammad massacred (beheaded) all 800 of their men and took all their women as sex slaves. And, Khaybar is chanted today during attacks: "Khaybar Khaybar ya Yahoud, jaish Muhammad saufa ya‘ud" And, no, they're not saying anything nice or cheerful except that they'll do it again and are, I guess, seemingly happy about this part.
The history of Islam is a history of cruel massacres of innocents across the world. This is a tactic called Jihad that allows Jihad to grow. There is no totalitarian system more oppressive to the individual, to women and to non-believers than this. For a comprehensive look at Jihad, read Andrew Bostom's Legacy of Jihad.
Walid Shoebat (former terrorist)
You said "I'm not saying Islam isn't guilty but I am saying that the West also had a role in the current mess!". This is absolutely incorrect. The victims have no role in their victimization. Recently a 13- year old girl was stoned to death in Pakistan because she came forward and said she had been gang raped by three men. In Islam, the victim is blamed. In the media of the west, the dhimmi media, the victims are blamed for Jihad. The victims of totalitarian violence are blamed for the violence itself. When a gay kafir walks down the streets of Copenhagen and is beaten or killed by a Muslim mob screaming Allah-hu Akbar, does one blame the victim of the mob? Or, does one say that the existence of the victim impelled the mob to violence? This is moral relativism; this is insanity. It is completely inaccurate in every single sense of the word.
Is thisthe West's fault, too?
Interesting philosophical point. Not relevant, though, since we have what we have.
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China's growth has been steady for the last several years and it doesn't look like it's going to stop anytime soon. The US on the other hand, well, just watch the news and you'll see.
Even the Simpsons referenced it in a recent episode where Homer says something along the lines of "Don't worry, by the time Bart grows up we'll be the economic power in the world. We're China right?"
Even the Simpsons referenced it in a recent episode where Homer says something along the lines of "Don't worry, by the time Bart grows up we'll be the economic power in the world. We're China right?"
if a majority of our members where China based and not US based , this thread wouldn't even happen.
Discussing the pro's and con's of different cultures and societies imo is not a good idea.
It's gonna get messy with all the superiority complex already evident on this thread.
ApO out....
Discussing the pro's and con's of different cultures and societies imo is not a good idea.
It's gonna get messy with all the superiority complex already evident on this thread.
ApO out....
Yep.
It's not going to be anyone's fault that the US will fall, that's just what happens with empires.
China's rise as a world power is coincidental not causative.
Just make it as easy and blood free as possible please, for everyone's sake. The British Empire spanned a third of the globe at one point but it was dismantled and we're still here. It wasn't blood free and painless, many folk died and suffered for the freedoms most of us now enjoy.
I look forward to the day we have a fair system of governance with one person, one vote, minimum living standards, a fair days pay for a fair days work and no territorial boundaries. I'll probably never see it but I can dream about it anyway
It's not going to be anyone's fault that the US will fall, that's just what happens with empires.
China's rise as a world power is coincidental not causative.
Just make it as easy and blood free as possible please, for everyone's sake. The British Empire spanned a third of the globe at one point but it was dismantled and we're still here. It wasn't blood free and painless, many folk died and suffered for the freedoms most of us now enjoy.
I look forward to the day we have a fair system of governance with one person, one vote, minimum living standards, a fair days pay for a fair days work and no territorial boundaries. I'll probably never see it but I can dream about it anyway
One thing is sure ....I would be far happier to live under China's rules and laws than live under Moslem rules and laws. The Chinese people might be a bit more repressed than we are but on the whole they have a fairly good society. They can rule the UK if they want I don't think it would make my life much different.
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