CHIT CHAT in VOLTVILLE

[White Rabbit]

Bad weather missed my area of the East Coast, just rain and today it is sunny and almost 70 degrees. Lots of chat to catch up on:

No way Awsum I would dance with you, maybe Debra, or Sandy, or Reno Lizzie

Kon, all we can do is provide an outlet for your frustrations. If the USA keeps spending like your government did, we may all end up in the same situation. There are not enough horses in the USA to provide transportation, we need our automobiles, motorcycles and mass transportation as well as our creature comforts. If they were not available, some of us could survive and thrive as you do, but we too would have riots and unrest.

No other news from my location, will check in later today.

Wabbit

 

[Konstantine]

Correction: They didn't spend. They STOLE Greek and EU money with scams or they simply took it. 2 politicians are sentenced lifetime and one more 9 years. And it might be strange to you but they did steal millions. One of the above stole 18 millions. Another one who is in court right now stole over a billion.. They even sold land they didn't own.
Hopefully they will get them all, around 400-500 people.

 

[Tail11]

Kon you have wonderful English (very American style) writing skills. If you speak it as well as you write it, you might want to consider coming to the US. With your electronics background, you should have no problems finding a job. Stay here for a bit while things get better in Greece.

 

[Konstantine]

To tell you the truth, me and many other Greeks would stay outside Greece forever. Hurts me by saying it but that's the way it is.
Tail it seems that your government doesn't like Greeks Can't get a visa, only 3 months as a tourist or if a company invites you, maybe if someone signs for you i have no idea how this works.

Edit
Nope, doesn't work this way lol
http://www.uscis.gov/files/form/i-130.pdf
http://www.uscis.gov/files/form/i-140.pdf

Apparently only ALIENS can immigrate

 

[Tail11]

Well, you could fly to Mexico and follow everybody else that slips through our border!

I'm glad I visited Greece years ago. It is a beautiful country. I'm sad for you and your fellow countrymen to see it in this sad financial state.

 

[cindycated]

To answer your question, Sandy, is kind of a cunundrum. There is certainly much higher use of electricity today than when I was a kid. There is, generally, sufficient generating capacity to supply the demand, even in high peaks like heat waves in the summer. The biggest problem is transmission capacity and the aging infrastructure of the power grid. Upgrading is very expensive and installing new transmission lines takes far too long because of all the environmental studies that have to happen. Add to that the cost and time, permits again, to add additional generating capacity and we are rapidly painting ourselves into a corner.

Alternative energy sounds attractive, but solar doesn't work well at night and costs too much to be a practical alternative. The only reason solar is being used is the Government subsidies, and that money comes out of our pockets to make it financially sound for someone else to do.

Wind is nice, but windmills do make noise and kill lots of birds, as in millions right now and again just how many windmills can be built in places where they would work efficiently enough?

Ethanol takes too much conventional energy to produce making it inefficient. Actually the "green house gas" produced to produce enough energy from biological sources, ethanol, is higher than the equivalent "green house gas" produced by coventional carbon fuels if the energy required to grow the stuff is added to the equation. Then there is the issue of 40% of our corn crop currently being used to produce ethanol which raises food prices for everyone, a sort of hidden ethanol tax.

Unfortunately, coal, oil and gas fired power plants are the only viable source, and nuclear is kind of questionable as well. We've already dammed up all the rivers that can produce enough power so hydro is kind of a dead issue as well. Research into fusion reactors has been halted so that's kind of a dead horse already.

I don't think we'll see "rolling blackouts" any time soon, but I think the power situation in California is indicative of what will eventually happen on a much larger scale.

Solar systems (at least the ones I've seen) kinda work like a giant X2 passthrough. It charges up during the day, then stores that charge for later use (like at night) - kinda like a generator. Still kinda expensive though. There's a company that I applied for that uses a similar technology for businesses - except it charges during cheaper non-peak hours (at night) and stores the energy for daytime use.

I have dreams of owning a solar-powered house, and being the only one on the block with power when the power goes out (like Samantha on Bewitched ).

 

[marlou]

Solar systems (at least the ones I've seen) kinda work like a giant X2 passthrough. It charges up during the day, then stores that charge for later use (like at night) - kinda like a generator. Still kinda expensive though. There's a company that I applied for that uses a similar technology for businesses - except it charges during cheaper non-peak hours (at night) and stores the energy for daytime use.

I have dreams of owning a solar-powered house, and being the only one on the block with power when the power goes out (like Samantha on Bewitched ).

If we were like Samantha on Bewitched we could do even better things than power our houses. We could wiggle our noses and ...poof.... bottles of delicious eliquid, polka dot batts, coils that never gunk up.... just think of the possibilities!

 

[awsum140]

No way Awsum I would dance with you, maybe Debra, or Sandy, or Reno Lizzie
Wabbit

Now I feel rejected ;(

 

[awsum140]

Solar systems (at least the ones I've seen) kinda work like a giant X2 passthrough. It charges up during the day, then stores that charge for later use (like at night) - kinda like a generator. Still kinda expensive though. There's a company that I applied for that uses a similar technology for businesses - except it charges during cheaper non-peak hours (at night) and stores the energy for daytime use.

I have dreams of owning a solar-powered house, and being the only one on the block with power when the power goes out (like Samantha on Bewitched ).

The economies of scale get to be a real problem with solar. Enough panels to charge enough batteries to run the average house would more than cover the roof of the house. Then there's the problem of a couple of days of no significant sun. From what I've seen of solar panels they need intense, bright, sunlight to produce anything close to their rated output. That may not be true for high end, more expensive, solar panels, but those would raise the cost very significantly. Every solar house I've seen on TV DIY or home improvement shows ALWAYS has an electrical service. Then there is that pesky carbon footprint of producing all those batteries and disposing of them at the end of their life...that's something that never seems to be included in the overall costs, kind of like the fertilizer used to grow the corn to make ethanol never gets mentioned.

 

[Konstantine]

Solar systems (at least the ones I've seen) kinda work like a giant X2 passthrough. It charges up during the day, then stores that charge for later use (like at night) - kinda like a generator. Still kinda expensive though. There's a company that I applied for that uses a similar technology for businesses - except it charges during cheaper non-peak hours (at night) and stores the energy for daytime use.

I have dreams of owning a solar-powered house, and being the only one on the block with power when the power goes out (like Samantha on Bewitched ).

Yeap! Those are off grid solar installations. They are nice and you can use them at home to power ALL your devices. You can start small too and upgrade as you go.

On grid are like the last one i was working on, 2MW they were dumping power only during day time directly on the grid, that solar field works for now at 25% (planned to get to full power soon) and working for about a month, in this winter month (not much sunlight) each inverter produced power (income for the owners) around 230.000 euros. It has 4 inverters so it's around 920k... or 1.2Million USD

 

[cindycated]

The economies of scale get to be a real problem with solar. Enough panels to charge enough batteries to run the average house would more than cover the roof of the house. Then there's the problem of a couple of days of no significant sun. From what I've seen of solar panels they need intense, bright, sunlight to produce anything close to their rated output. That may not be true for high end, more expensive, solar panels, but those would raise the cost very significantly. Every solar house I've seen on TV DIY or home improvement shows ALWAYS has an electrical service. Then there is that pesky carbon footprint of producing all those batteries and disposing of them at the end of their life...that's something that never seems to be included in the overall costs, kind of like the fertilizer used to grow the corn to make ethanol never gets mentioned.

But you can't stop at just installing a system. You also have to incorporate ways to lower your need: better insulation, more energy-efficient lighting/appliances, etc. And it's not just a matter of slapping the panels up on the roof. You also have to make sure they're at proper angles, gaps, etc. to make them work right. For me, if I can ever move and afford it, I'd rather be even just 70% off the grid than 100% on. But I agree with you on battery disposal. I asked about that during my interview with that company - maybe that's why I didn't get the job.

 

[Konstantine]

The economies of scale get to be a real problem with solar. Enough panels to charge enough batteries to run the average house would more than cover the roof of the house. Then there's the problem of a couple of days of no significant sun. From what I've seen of solar panels they need intense, bright, sunlight to produce anything close to their rated output. That may not be true for high end, more expensive, solar panels, but those would raise the cost very significantly. Every solar house I've seen on TV DIY or home improvement shows ALWAYS has an electrical service. Then there is that pesky carbon footprint of producing all those batteries and disposing of them at the end of their life...that's something that never seems to be included in the overall costs, kind of like the fertilizer used to grow the corn to make ethanol never gets mentioned.

You are right on many things but technology advances.
Today's panels do not need to cover a large area and you can calculate with software and metereological data how much sunlight you will get during the year.You can make the system work for example 7 days without enough sunlight or depending on your needs. Solar panels produce more power on colder climates, just as any semiconductor they work more efficiently when cold. IF for any reason sunlight is not present for too much you can have a small quiet generator on automatic startup and it will power the house and at the same time charge the batteries and then go back to solar-battery again.

The cost is higher but it will pay longterm.
About the carbon footprint... Even farts have it and you can't avoid it, besides carbon dioxide is not responsible for the heat rise and polar ice melting.

 

[cindycated]

Yeap! Those are off grid solar installations. They are nice and you can use them at home to power ALL your devices. You can start small too and upgrade as you go.

Yep, that's how I hope to do it someday. Start with hot water heaters for my long hot showers and radiant floor heating, then add on as I go from there.

 

[Konstantine]

But you can't stop at just installing a system. You also have to incorporate ways to lower your need: better insulation, more energy-efficient lighting/appliances, etc. And it's not just a matter of slapping the panels up on the roof. You also have to make sure they're at proper angles, gaps, etc. to make them work right. For me, if I can ever move and afford it, I'd rather be even just 70% off the grid than 100% on. But I agree with you on battery disposal. I asked about that during my interview with that company - maybe that's why I didn't get the job.

Bingo! Except all that you mentioned Cindy you also have to change the way you live, use lights when needed and don't operate everything at the same time.
The angle of the solar panel depends on your geolocation and sunlight percentage, We have different angles here from the US.

 

[awsum140]

Even with all the methods of reducing energy consumption some things simply require large amounts of power, like air conditions, cooking and water heating. Yes, the amount required can certainly be lowered, but the demand is still there. It's interesting to note that our modern flat screen TVs use double to triple what an "old fashioned" transistor/picture tube TV used to use, just as an example. A microwave uses, typically, 1300-1500 watts or even more, same for a toaster oven. A clothes dryer is a 5000+ watt power hog, same for an electric water heater. Then, there's all that power we use to recharge our vaping batteries! Certainly can't forget that!

 

[Konstantine]

Yep, that's how I hope to do it someday. Start with hot water heaters for my long hot showers and radiant floor heating, then add on as I go from there.

Geothermal is the best way to go, has a low cost and it works all the time. Just put a large tube on the ground and pump heat from the earth, minimum power is required.

A house with all those would be anyone's dream house. Would probably be the coolest thing.

 

[cindycated]

You are right on many things but technology advances.
Today's panels do not need to cover a large area and you can calculate with software and metereological data how much sunlight you will get during the year.You can make the system work for example 7 days without enough sunlight or depending on your needs. Solar panels produce more power on colder climates, just as any semiconductor they work more efficiently when cold. IF for any reason sunlight is not present for too much you can have a small quiet generator on automatic startup and it will power the house and at the same time charge the batteries and then go back to solar-battery again.

The cost is higher but it will pay longterm.
About the carbon footprint... Even farts have it and you can't avoid it, besides carbon dioxide is not responsible for the heat rise and polar ice melting.

Konstantine, I think if I weren't old enough to be your mom and could afford to even care for myself, I'd ask you to marry me!
But hey, US citizenship!

 

[Konstantine]

Even with all the methods of reducing energy consumption some things simply require large amounts of power, like air conditions, cooking and water heating. Yes, the amount required can certainly be lowered, but the demand is still there. It's interesting to note that our modern flat screen TVs use double to triple what an "old fashioned" transistor/picture tube TV used to use, just as an example. A microwave uses, typically, 1300-1500 watts or even more, same for a toaster oven. A clothes dryer is a 5000+ watt power hog, same for an electric water heater. Then, there's all that power we use to recharge our vaping batteries! Certainly can't forget that!

I'f i'm not wrong new appliances like tv's and stereo's are green.
You can get a big system to power all these but you won't be able to use the dryer for too long. We mostly air dry them here.
Water heaters and cookers can be converted to gas.
Even so, water heaters can heat water directly from the sun without consuming power. The only thing i could see as a problem is the air condition but with the new inverter ones that may be solved too.
Microwave ovens usually do not run for too long. Or in the end, stop using it.

 

[Konstantine]

Konstantine, I think if I weren't old enough to be your mom and could afford to even care for myself, I'd ask you to marry me!
But hey, US citizenship!

Hahahahahaha!!!

Quick, we can still do it, love has no boundaries.

Plus the free solar power design and installation LOL

 

[cindycated]

Geothermal is the best way to go, has a low cost and it works all the time. Just put a large tube on the ground and pump heat from the earth, minimum power is required.

A house with all those would be anyone's dream house. Would probably be the coolest thing.

Thought about that, but don't know how well geothermal would hold up here in earthquake country. Plus our weather doesn't really go enough into extremes to get the full benefits of it.

And water heater technologies have come a long way. There are solar tankless systems now, on-demand systems, etc. that make heating water way more efficient. LED TVs use about 1/3 of what LCD TVs use, which probably use 1/2 of what plasmas use. Lighting is a big problem too, with really easy fixes (my sister's house used to really piss me off - so wasteful). But yeah, I wouldn't give up my microwave for anything.