Christianity vs Catholicism

[Bones]

.

Cool - I did not say that formal training was required but it does help -Still what you are describing does not sound like a meditative state - One does not get up and go pee while one meditates - It sounds more like a mental state of total apathy along with some sleep deprivation at play - Sounds a lot more like clinical depression as you describe it - The not bathing or washing your clothes for long periods points to that too - Having no concern for personal hygiene is not a sign of anti-materialism - It is a sign of lack of self respect - I have never experienced anything remotely like a need to harm others to make me happy - Not literally or figuratively or even metaphorically - That part in particular is VERY ODD - It could be that it is getting lost in translation - But what I read here does not in any way resemble the effects of a meditative state - I do hope you find help from whatever faith you practice - I do not know you well enough to say for sure what that was about - but I do know meditation well enough to say with certainty that what you describe is not a brush with enlightenment or the one-ness - It makes me feel very sad for you if you think that is what meditation and loss of self is about - It is not my friend - It is not like that at all - I am actually crying as I read what you describe - That is a very sad and dark moment - And in no way resembles the boundless warmth and love I feel when I meditate -

Peace be with you -

 

[Bones]

the atheists here have never read the Bible in its entirety .

Personally I have read the Bible in it's entirety many times over - Don't know where you got that - Including 3 times straight up Cover TO Cover in three different versions for comparison -

 

[Bones]

There are VOLUMES written on how similar Buddha and Christ's teachings are - Here are just a few examples -


Jesus: If anyone strikes you on the cheek, offer the other also.
Buddha: If anyone should give you a blow with his hand, with a stick, or with a knife, you should abandon any desires and utter no evil words.

Jesus: Why do you see the speck in your neighbor’s eye, but do not notice the log in your own eye? Or how can you say to your neighbor, “Friend, let me take the speck out of your eye,” when you yourself do not see the log in your own eye? You, hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your neighbor’s eye.
Buddha: The faults of others are easier to see than one’s own; the faults of others are easily seen, for they are sifted like chaff, but one’s own faults are hard to see. This is like the cheat who hides his dice and shows the dice of his opponent, calling attention to the other’s shortcomings, continually thinking of accusing him.

Jesus: Your father in heaven makes his sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the righteous and on the unrighteous.
Buddha: The great cloud rains down on all whether their nature is superior or inferior. The light of the sun and the moon illuminates the whole world, both him who does well and him who does ill, both him who stands high and him who stands low.

Jesus: He said to them, “When I sent you out without a purse, bag, or sandals, did you lack anything?” They said, “No, not a thing.”
Buddha: Then the Lord addressed the monks, saying: “I am freed from all snares. And you, monks, you are freed from all snares.”

Jesus: The kingdom of heaven is like a treasure hidden in a field, which someone found and hid; then in his joy he goes and sells all that he has and buys that field.
Buddha: If by giving up limited pleasures one sees far-reaching happiness, the wise one leaves aside limited pleasures, looking to far-reaching happiness.

Jesus: Those who want to save their life will lose it, and those who lose their life for my sake will save it.
Buddha: With the relinquishing of all thought and egotism, the enlightened one is liberated through not clinging.

 

[gashin]

Sent you a message. I was in a completely ego-less state for nearly an hour - the urge to pee is what really brought me back. Still you don't think that lacking any discrimination between my hand, organ, and urine isn't a poignant example of one-ness? I also don't understand what you mean by personal hygeine being a sign of self-respect (I am very clean now btw - this was during my college days) if you are a Buddhist. Isn't personal cleanliness just a reinforcement of the prejudice we hold between object and subject? Again, it was during my return to ego that I experienced that selfish-morality - not during my meditative state. I tried to find a source of morality without any external influence, including other beings, and all I could find was the worst in humanity when I viewed the world subjectively as a selfish ego without my memories and identity. During my previous meditations, I did experience the feelings of peace you mentioned - but I never escaped my ego long enough during these sessions to really explore the psychological mechanisms of my mind from a completely objective and morality-free perspective until this session. I think that if you lost your ego for the same amount of time you would also have a chance to observe all your actions in the context of alack of discrimination between objects and between object and ego. These dark feelings were totally replaced with love when I began to think about God and how only divine intervention can save us from our selfish egos.

Cool - I did not say that formal training was required but it does help -Still what you are describing does not sound like a meditative state - One does not get up and go pee while one meditates - It sounds more like a mental state of total apathy along with some sleep deprivation at play - Sounds a lot more like clinical depression as you describe it - The not bathing or washing your clothes for long periods points to that too - Having no concern for personal hygiene is not a sign of anti-materialism - It is a sign of lack of self respect - I have never experienced anything remotely like a need to harm others to make me happy - Not literally or figuratively or even metaphorically - That part in particular is VERY ODD - It could be that it is getting lost in translation - But what I read here does not in any way resemble the effects of a meditative state - I do hope you find help from whatever faith you practice - I do not know you well enough to say for sure what that was about - but I do know meditation well enough to say with certainty that what you describe is not a brush with enlightenment or the one-ness - It makes me feel very sad for you if you think that is what meditation and loss of self is about - It is not my friend - It is not like that at all - I am actually crying as I read what you describe - That is a very sad and dark moment - And in no way resembles the boundless warmth and love I feel when I meditate -

Peace be with you -

 

[gashin]

There is a huge difference:

Buddha teaches to escape suffering through leaving our egos and compassion for others while Jesus taught to address and welcome suffering head-on by actually serving and loving one another. Buddhism is an escape from suffering through willing ourselves to be cold-hearted for our own personal freedom from suffering - Christianity is the way to achieve happiness for all through serving one another in love as God wants us to.

There are VOLUMES written on how similar Buddha and Christ's teachings are - Here are just a few examples -


Jesus: If anyone strikes you on the cheek, offer the other also.
Buddha: If anyone should give you a blow with his hand, with a stick, or with a knife, you should abandon any desires and utter no evil words.

Jesus: Why do you see the speck in your neighbor’s eye, but do not notice the log in your own eye? Or how can you say to your neighbor, “Friend, let me take the speck out of your eye,” when you yourself do not see the log in your own eye? You, hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your neighbor’s eye.
Buddha: The faults of others are easier to see than one’s own; the faults of others are easily seen, for they are sifted like chaff, but one’s own faults are hard to see. This is like the cheat who hides his dice and shows the dice of his opponent, calling attention to the other’s shortcomings, continually thinking of accusing him.

Jesus: Your father in heaven makes his sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the righteous and on the unrighteous.
Buddha: The great cloud rains down on all whether their nature is superior or inferior. The light of the sun and the moon illuminates the whole world, both him who does well and him who does ill, both him who stands high and him who stands low.

Jesus: He said to them, “When I sent you out without a purse, bag, or sandals, did you lack anything?” They said, “No, not a thing.”
Buddha: Then the Lord addressed the monks, saying: “I am freed from all snares. And you, monks, you are freed from all snares.”

Jesus: The kingdom of heaven is like a treasure hidden in a field, which someone found and hid; then in his joy he goes and sells all that he has and buys that field.
Buddha: If by giving up limited pleasures one sees far-reaching happiness, the wise one leaves aside limited pleasures, looking to far-reaching happiness.

Jesus: Those who want to save their life will lose it, and those who lose their life for my sake will save it.
Buddha: With the relinquishing of all thought and egotism, the enlightened one is liberated through not clinging.

 

[Bones]

There is a huge difference:

Buddha teaches to escape suffering through leaving our egos and compassion for others while Jesus taught to address and welcome suffering head-on by actually serving and loving one another. Buddhism is an escape from suffering through willing ourselves to be cold-hearted for our own personal freedom from suffering - Christianity is the way to achieve happiness for all through serving one another in love as God wants us to.

Sorry - There is nothing cold hearted about Buddhism - You are really off on that - I had the pleasure of meeting the Dalai Lama once at a local meditation center - Cold Hearted is the last thing on Earth that this man is - He RADIATES Love and Concern - He exudes Compassion and Love - His laugh is one of the most beautiful sounds that I have ever heard in my life - The idea of serving others is very present in the Buddhist communities - It was a community service program that he was there for - Gathering food and clothes for the needy - We had collected mountains of food and he wept openly when he saw how much we had gathered - As he blessed the offering he said "If only all of the world would share what they have as you have done - there would be no hungry people and we could - - - " Then he had to stop speaking because tears of joy overwhelmed him - He said he was sorry for crying but our service to our fellow man had touched him so deeply - And that we had truly made him proud -That he had just been through a rough time with some political related news and this reminder of how many people do understand the message of compassion and service to others had filled his heart with joy -

I do not claim to know everything by far - But I do claim that your concept of what Buddhism is - is VERY wrong - You are over thinking it - And you are seeing it as being opposed to Christianity - It simply and plainly is NOT! - Leaving our ego - YES - Our ego is the source of selfishness - - Leaving compassion for others? ABSOLUTELY NOT! - I don't know how you get that - It is so wrong -

 

[gashin]

"213. From affection comes grief, from affection comes fear; he who is free from affection knows neither grief nor fear."

"215. From love comes grief, from love comes fear; he who is free from love knows neither grief nor fear."

"273. The best of ways is the eightfold; the best of truths the four words; the best of virtues passionlessness; the best of men he who has eyes to see."

"278. 'All created things are grief and pain,' he who knows and sees this becomes passive in pain; this is the way that leads to purity."

"284. So long as the love of man towards women, even the smallest, is not destroyed, so long is his mind in bondage, as the calf that drinks milk is to its mother."
- Buddha's teachings in The Dhammapada
Sacred Books of the East, Vol. 10: The Dhammapada and Sutta Nipata: The Dhammapada: Chapter XVI. Pleasure.

Here is Buddha clearly teaching against compassion. I'm sorry but the Dalai Llama and Tibetan Buddhism have strayed far from Buddha's teachings with their integration of traditional Tibetan animalism and its emphasis as a religion of an oppressed people - instead of accepting their suffering, Tibetan monks are openly fighting with the Chinese authority for their material identity as a separate people in defiance of Buddha's own words. Here you can clearly see the dichotomy between Buddha and Jesus' teachings - Buddha taught to accept and become passive in pain, free from affection and love for others, while Jesus taught that must not ignore pain but face it head-on through self-less action and faith in God's forgiveness.

Sorry - There is nothing cold hearted about Buddhism - You are really off on that - I had the pleasure of meeting the Dalai Lama once at a local meditation center - Cold Hearted is the last thing on Earth that this man is - He RADIATES Love and Concern - He exudes Compassion and Love - His laugh is one of the most beautiful sounds that I have ever heard in my life - The idea of serving others is very present in the Buddhist communities - It was a community service program that he was there for - Gathering food and clothes for the needy - We had collected mountains of food and he wept openly when he saw how much we had gathered - As he blessed the offering he said "If only all of the world would share what they have as you have done - there would be no hungry people and we could - - - " Then he had to stop speaking because tears of joy overwhelmed him - He said he was sorry for crying but our service to our fellow man had touched him so deeply - And that we had truly made him proud -That he had just been through a rough time with some political related news and this reminder of how many people do understand the message of compassion and service to others had filled his heart with joy -

I do not claim to know everything by far - But I do claim that your concept of what Buddhism is - is VERY wrong - You are over thinking it - And you are seeing it as being opposed to Christianity - It simply and plainly is NOT! - Leaving our ego - YES - Our ego is the source of selfishness - - Leaving compassion for others? ABSOLUTELY NOT! - I don't know how you get that - It is so wrong -

 

[WILDJC]

Quotes from Bones: "I have been in the state of no self for 4-5 minutes at a time and the feeling I get is one of total pure energy and oneness - Happiness is a subjective state and a function of the mind not the spirit - The ONENESS simply IS - It is neither happy nor sad"

"It makes me feel very sad for you if you think that is what meditation and loss of self is about - It is not my friend - It is not like that at all - I am actually crying as I read what you describe - That is a very sad and dark moment - And in no way resembles the boundless warmth and love I feel when I meditate -"


I find it a little contradictory of you. If you feel love when you mediate, isn't that a subjective state?

Anyway, this might be of interest to some of you on the various states of meditation - trance - vision, etc.

Numbers 24:16 He hath said, which heard the words of God, and knew the knowledge of the most High, which saw the vision of the Almighty, falling into a trance, but having his eyes open.

Daniel 4:5 I saw a dream which made me afraid, and the thoughts upon my bed and the visions of my head troubled me.

Job 4:13-16 In thoughts from the visions of the night, when deep sleep falleth on men, Fear came upon me, and trembling, which made all my bones to shake. Then a spirit passed before my face; the hair of my flesh stood up: It stood still, but I could not discern the form thereof: an image was before mine eyes, there was silence, and I heard a voice.....

And my favorite:

Isa. 55:8-9 “For My thoughts are not your thoughts, Neither are your ways My ways,” declares the LORD. “For as the heavens are higher than the earth, So are My ways higher than your ways, And My thoughts than your thoughts"

 

[gashin]

Exactly - Zen meditation's ultimate goal is to achieve pristine awareness, free from destructive thoughts and emotions. I did reach this state in my meditation but what I found was emptiness - I wasn't angry, sad, or fearful, in fact I didn't exist as an identifiable consciousness. However, when I gradually returned to my ego after about an hour of this concept-less state (though not my identity and memories) I discovered that our minds, free from outside influence, can only produce evil and suffering. I searched for peace and happiness but only found a harmful, self-serving being that would never achieve happiness through materialism or selfish relationships. It was only upon realizing God that I understood that only a divine source can direct us towards true happiness and true morality. I was totally atheist before this experience and after it was over, I read the Bible and found that it provides a moral framework and absolute truth that addresses all our weaknesses and provides meaning to life and a happiness that we can't achieve through human means and morality.

Quotes from Bones: "I have been in the state of no self for 4-5 minutes at a time and the feeling I get is one of total pure energy and oneness - Happiness is a subjective state and a function of the mind not the spirit - The ONENESS simply IS - It is neither happy nor sad"

"It makes me feel very sad for you if you think that is what meditation and loss of self is about - It is not my friend - It is not like that at all - I am actually crying as I read what you describe - That is a very sad and dark moment - And in no way resembles the boundless warmth and love I feel when I meditate -"


I find it a little contradictory of you. If you feel love when you mediate, isn't that a subjective state?

Anyway, this might be of interest to some of you on the various states of meditation - trance - vision, etc.

Numbers 24:16 He hath said, which heard the words of God, and knew the knowledge of the most High, which saw the vision of the Almighty, falling into a trance, but having his eyes open.

Daniel 4:5 I saw a dream which made me afraid, and the thoughts upon my bed and the visions of my head troubled me.

Job 4:13-16 In thoughts from the visions of the night, when deep sleep falleth on men, Fear came upon me, and trembling, which made all my bones to shake. Then a spirit passed before my face; the hair of my flesh stood up: It stood still, but I could not discern the form thereof: an image was before mine eyes, there was silence, and I heard a voice.....

And my favorite:

Isa. 55:8-9 “For My thoughts are not your thoughts, Neither are your ways My ways,” declares the LORD. “For as the heavens are higher than the earth, So are My ways higher than your ways, And My thoughts than your thoughts"

 

[Bones]

Tibetan monks are openly fighting with the Chinese authority for their material identity as a separate people in defiance of Buddha's own words. Here you can clearly see the dichotomy between Buddha and Jesus' teachings - Buddha taught to accept and become passive in pain, free from affection and love for others, while Jesus taught that must not ignore pain but face it head-on through self-less action and faith in God's forgiveness.

Well - I had said to you before - If forced to choose a label for myself I would have to say Buddhist although that is not quite right - I take a lot from Eastern Philosophy - Though I did grow up officially as Catholic - I have read the Bible a lot - So what I actually have in my heart is a mix of the two - I think the strict and emotionless way of Buddha is about how to achieve a true spiritual oneness and exist on another level - Merged with the overall energy purely and totally abandoning a sense of self and all connections to the Earthly world - What you say about "Tibetan monks are openly fighting with the Chinese authority for their material identity as a separate people in defiance of Buddha's own words" Speaks to this as well - If you maintain your connection to the Earthly world - Then you must maintain a sense of self and in interactions with other creatures of the Earth Compassion and Love are the primary positive ways of relating with each other - The ideas are separate - One deals with Earth and the other with beyond -

Isa. 55:8-9 “For My thoughts are not your thoughts, Neither are your ways My ways,” declares the LORD. “For as the heavens are higher than the earth, So are My ways higher than your ways, And My thoughts than your thoughts" - Good one Wild - Yes - This is exactly what I am talking about here -


Reports of Buddha's life on Earth do not point to an emotionless blob - Rather to a loving and compassionate man in his interactions with others -The total surrender of self is not for this world - It is for the next - As I said earlier - If you want to drift away and fade into the "matrix" then you must let go of everything - If you want to stay - Then you must have Love and Compassion as your core - Jesus teaches primarily how to deal with our fellow men in an earthly world and speaks about the world beyond this one only in vague and lofty terms such as great rewards and being with God - He does not tell us how it will feel or what our emotions will be when we are with God - Not in any real or practical way at least - His practical lessons are primarily Earthly and ones of interaction with others

The part I find disturbing is your idea of others having to suffer so that you can feel happiness as being part of the Buddhist Teaching - I get happiness from bringing it to others - I find that when I chase things that I desire because I think they will bring me happiness they only bring sorrow - The times in my life when I am the most happy are when I am selfless for the benefit of others - Or as Lennon says - "In the end the love you take is equal to the love you make" -

That feeling of selfishness you spoke of is not a part of Buddha's teachings for either world - That is a human failing that we all experience and must learn to overcome - So perhaps this explains that feeling as you came back to your ego - You felt the human failing that you had separated from - Perhaps feeling it more strongly in close contrast to not feeling anything at all - You then found the message of how to interact with love (moral framework) through Jesus' words because they are more clearly spelled out - You felt upset and bad about your human failing so you reached out for a rope to pull you up - Naturally you took the most familiar - Having just experienced a perceived inadequacy with the mediative process - Perhaps this is also why you percieve an opposition between the two where I do not -

I am very attached to this world and the people in my life - So I have never let myself go quite that far - I have felt it - glimpsed it - but I always pull back on my Earthly Life Line that connects me to those I love - This used to bother me - felt it was holding me back from enlightenment - I had thoughts of leaving all of my loved ones so I could pursue it - I asked my teacher about this and he just laughed at me and said "Good - That means you are human and a loyal friend - When you are ready and have no connections to this world - Then nothing will hold you and you will progress" He told me that he had the same worries and his teacher told him the same thing he said to me - Then he told me my time with him was over and to walk my path and show my love to those I stay for - This also explains the contradiction Wild points out -

 

[azureblade7]

Jesus walked the walk and talked the talk. He healed resurrected etc where I have already quoted what Buddha told the woman who asked him to restore her son to life, "Bring me one grain of rice from someone who hasn't suffered and I will do so." Tenet #1 Life is suffering. Buddha talked a great game but its just a philosophy. Siddhartha Guatama didnt pose the social radical either. He was accepted and embraced greatly and henceforth from that time same with Mohammed. Jesus knew what was going to happen to him, and still went through it, not to mention the resurrection and ascension that sealed it for all of this universe's time span henceforth. The sun was darkened the earthquakes happen the temple was rent in two there are records of this as well. The very universe acknowledged Him, as it is written it would and still will. That's why the message of Jesus still resonates to this day and has resurfaced in spite of the Early Catholic church's attempts to kill it. You can kill the messenger but you cannot stop the message. It's coming from the universe itself if you'll listen. Fingerprints are everywhere for the Creator in intelligent design, and Jesus is the only master who showed not only intellectual/moral superiority but physically manifested it before death and after resurrection(Maybe he had a gandalf like trip in the LOTR movie? Lol) By killing Jesus the men who sought his demise actually became pivotal parts in sealing the deal so He could come back.

And isn't true buddhism the removal of emotion and the subjective things? Christ teaches acceptance of the condition as the only way to admit your own fallacy and lean on Him, not to try and remove it by some method on your own power. I had one guy talk about panbuddhism including emotions but he equated that to something different. And even during my deepest meditations in TM without the Christ/God focus, the light wasn't quite right if you know what i mean. Letting the Spirit guide me showed me into states of ecstasy and unity that literally carried for days, it made my "prayer time" a favorite part of the day. Understand I'm admittedly backslidden, and don't do this anymore as I cannot due to personal choices but i'm just throwing it out there. I will go find some of the Christian mystic books as there eloquence in discussing the subtle differences between eternal beings.

And honestly you do get spiritually high when connected, especially in the moments where the supernatural manifests(on both sides although the light is so much stronger than the dark). I was 14 on my missions trip for a month in peru away from all civilization pulling 22 hour days in 120 heat index and didn't feel nary a drain until i was back home in ol' north carolina . When I felt the man's eyes being healed it was like a great warmth of fire in my hands but it didn't burn and its different depending on what happens. They went cool on the little girl with malaria but she got better too. You do feel slightly drained afterwards, even Jesus knew the woman with the bloodflow had been healed because He felt some of His spirit go out. These are of course on my personal experiences rather subjective but they did happen and somewhere down in Teen Mania's archives there are records of who and what and when. Not by whom as it wasn't for personal recognition but just recording what 132 kids could do in a month. Anyways it was never me doing it, its just being a vessel, the Spirit brings the power(dunamis root where we get dynamite from) We all are for something, at least with Jesus you make the choice and have a foundation to stand against the tide of evil's ever increasing grip over this world knowing the eternal promise we have.

And more to the point Lucifer is the father of lies and can appear as a being of light(he was the Morning Star and the Bringer of Light before his fall and can appear as light to those without a solid foundation in the truth), and in every religion/philosophy there has to be some grain of truth for people to swallow, but in reality it is not the absolute truth. And therein lies the dig for the relativists. Jesus did it and said it and then within 30-60 years the books were written long before the Council of Nicea. They do exist in the originals which we have now but didn't always for mass reading and study(I am talking the new testament books not all the other books not canonized). Concordances etc allow you to cross reference and really LEARN about it. My study bible has all sorts of historical footnotes and maps with references and I CHECK them. Its interesting to learn more about something so integral, and there is always more. We have no promise of any happiness in this life(quite the opposite if we really do what Jesus said do, but I digress), but we are eternal beings in physical bodies and this life is but a blip in eternity. So I don't really care about happiness at all I'd much rather enjoy the peace of the Lord than the happiness that depends on what's happening(see Job who was rewarded with more than he lost when he came through the trials even after yelling at God) Jesus taught about the treasures in heaven parables yes but Gashin's already hit on the differences. The earliest Christians still knew they'd be killed and tortured like their contemporaries in the disciples did shortly before them. They went gladly to see the Lord KNOWING what the end point was, not wandering or saying I cannot know. Those who know do know and you cannot shake that once its realized. Its not some temporal subjective truth. Its an eternal absolute truth, which I've seen in a variety of personal experiences and read about in books across a myriad of subject matters. Everyone has their reckoning, you've had yours.

Like I said though seriously if you're still doing meditation and trying to explore stuff be very cautious alright? I'm going to go lookup those books in the next day or two but until then God Bless. If you are truly a new born again Christian take it slow. You aren't racing any person in your walk with God it really isn't you doing anything on your own, its God working in you and through you. Its never about personal accomplishment, I feel like when i talk about that which I've seen and been part of it may sound as such but really when there is complete unity it doesn't matter you're just part of the machine. The peruvians said gloria a dios they never knew anything about me outside hola me llamo $$$$$ after that the translator took over. But yet the Spirit works across all the lines, even when we couldn't know what was wrong medically, still around 70% of the people got better. This isn't normal but certainly gave me a glimpse into what the realization of the absolute eternal truth in the temporal universe can be. Sadly these things don't seem to happen here in the "civilized world" as much. I believe it to be the "faith like a child" those people in Peru had. They had nothing, but once they heard about the real Jesus from the bible as we read it(not the priest's version) and at the events the light bulbs in their spirits not just their heads came on. This wasn't what the Catholic priest had been saying, it was simple and easy to understand. He got his goon squad to scare us off, but we still witnessed to a crowd of 800 before we got guns pointed and had to go away. We stopped back by on the way back downriver on the Amazon and they were actually holding their own services nightly in the outskirts reading the Bible because not everyone could read. I don't know whatever happened to those people but we shared the truth with them which they embraced and found hope in a completely seemingly God forsaken(or at the very least forgotten)place .The process was started. As it has been started in you gashin. If you are as sensitive to the spiritual as you seem, just take care of yourself gain your balance before trying to run or fly. Read and study and pray on your own and with other Christians from church, don't forget to relax and have fun while doing it! We have temporal worries yes but eternally there are none for us (alright long enough i'm not proofreading xD)

Peace Love and Prosperity to All
Azureblade7

 

[Probot]

Unicorns vs Dragons imo.

 

[Bones]

Buddha talked a great game but its just a philosophy. Siddhartha Guatama didnt pose the social radical either. He was accepted and embraced greatly and henceforth from that time same

Not that it matters one bit but - that is really not true - Sorry I only scanned most of your post - I am getting very busy with work here and will soon not be here much at all - But - Buddha came unto Hinduism much the same as Jesus to the Jews - Many Hindus called him a heretic and did not accept and embrace him in the least - It was a radical change in that he claimed that anyone could find enlightenment and did not need to go through the process of death and rebirth and work his way up over many lifetimes - This flew in the face of the caste system - Even an untouchable could attain enlightenment - This was a RADICAL Social position - Why must this be a contest? Why can one not take truth from different sources? - IF indeed there are absolutes - Why would Jesus be the only one to point them out? - The only real truth that matters on this Earth is that we be good and loving to each other - To turn faith into a contest is not following that truth - Is a truth only true if it is opposed?

I have enjoyed talking with everyone here - But like I said - My work is calling me away and I will not have time to keep up with the conversation as I have been - Seems to be good timing because I am growing very tired of this CONTEST mentality that the conversation keeps taking - I am not the only person by a LONG SHOT who finds the teachings of Jesus and Buddha to be be far more similar than they are different - Just do a few Googles on the subject and you will find many books on the subject - And it has been a topic of discussion for many years - I find it very disturbing that when I try to find commonality I am bombarded with opposition and denial - As far as the arguments over which Christian Faith is best - That seems all the more foolish -

"The little stupid differences in Christianity don't matter -
What matters is the BIG stupid similarities" - - Bart Simpson

 

[WILDJC]

Bones quote: "Jesus teaches primarily how to deal with our fellow men in an earthly world and speaks about the world beyond this one only in vague and lofty terms such as great rewards and being with God - He does not tell us how it will feel or what our emotions will be when we are with God - Not in any real or practical way at least - His practical lessons are primarily Earthly and ones of interaction with others."


I would like to address this.

In the Bible, Jesus spoke about Paradise when He said, “Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me. In my Father's house (Paradise) are many mansions:... I go to prepare a place for you.”

The Bible continues to say, “For the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them, and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters: and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes.”

Revelation says, “After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes. And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb.”

Paradise will be full of beauty beyond imagination.

Revelation says, “and the street of the city was pure gold, as it were transparent glass.” ; “And the twelve gates were twelve pearls; every several gate was of one pearl:” ; “And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb.”; “In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.”

The Bible also says, “But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.”

Many of the prophets have with their visions, trances, fastings and meditations experienced a higher spiritual plane, descriptive of their witness to such an event. Paul states that we live in a spiritual world, and the world that we physically see is temporal, a shadow, like a blade of grass which bursts forth and then withers away. But, even in this short amount of time, Jesus references the lillies of the field, and how they are arrayed greater than the treasures of Solomon. How much more does God love us than the lilly?

Indeed, Jesus gave us His Kingdom here on earth. He states that if the world hates you, it hates me also. That's because He is not of the world, as we also are not of the world. Earthly things are corruptible. Heavenly things are incorruptible.

 

[MissVapor]

Jesus walked the walk and talked the talk. He healed resurrected etc...............................

great post azure blade..thanks for sharing your experiences about GOD and how he still heals (even today)

 

[Bones]

Bones quote: "Jesus teaches primarily how to deal with our fellow men in an earthly world and speaks about the world beyond this one only in vague and lofty terms such as great rewards and being with God - He does not tell us how it will feel or what our emotions will be when we are with God - Not in any real or practical way at least - His practical lessons are primarily Earthly and ones of interaction with others."


I would like to address this.

In the Bible, Jesus spoke about Paradise when He said, “Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me. In my Father's house (Paradise) are many mansions:... I go to prepare a place for you.” No feelings mentioned here -

The Bible continues to say, “For the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them, and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters: and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes.” This is a removal of sorrow(suffering of life) and does not suggest any feeling replacing it -

Revelation says, “After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes. And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb.” This speaks of a unity - a oneness of all manner of man

Paradise will be full of beauty beyond imagination. Again no feelings and I see no contradiction - I find the oneness quite beautiful beyond imagination - as above - A common ground for all nations and tounges -

Revelation says, “and the street of the city was pure gold, as it were transparent glass.” ; “And the twelve gates were twelve pearls; every several gate was of one pearl:” ; “And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb.”; “In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.” Once again Metaphor and not practical

The Bible also says, “But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.” This is once again telling us that we can't understand it - No practical discription offered

Many of the prophets have with their visions, trances, fastings and meditations experienced a higher spiritual plane, descriptive of their witness to such an event. Paul states that we live in a spiritual world, and the world that we physically see is temporal, a shadow, like a blade of grass which bursts forth and then withers away. But, even in this short amount of time, Jesus references the lillies of the field, and how they are arrayed greater than the treasures of Solomon. How much more does God love us than the lilly?

Indeed, Jesus gave us His Kingdom here on earth. He states that if the world hates you, it hates me also. That's because He is not of the world, as we also are not of the world. Earthly things are corruptible. Heavenly things are incorruptible. Pure ENERGY is pretty incorruptable

This is all EXACTLY as I said - You seek to contradict where no contradiction exists - These are just as I described - "Lofty and METAPHORICAL" - It does not tell us at all how it will FEEL - Or that there will be feelings - None of this attempts to explain the true nature - IN fact it specifically avoids that type of description by essentially saying we would not understand it - "beyond imagination" " Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man"

" Paul states that we live in a spiritual world, and the world that we physically see is temporal, a shadow, like a blade of grass which bursts forth and then withers away. " - This is identical to my previous assertions that the material world is but an illusion and subject to our perception of how the spiritual world manifests through our perception of it - In order to experience the spiritual world for what it is we must let go of all of our perceptions and see it for what it is - PURE SPIRIT - Devoid of mans conceptions and perceptions (happy - sad - pain - joy and so on) -

There is no effort to explain the true nature of this spiritual plane and I find nothing in what you quote that contradicts what I said AT ALL - Yet you pose it as a contradiction - What you show affirms my assertion that it is a very different place and the normal rules do not apply there - I have been trying very hard to point out similarities - And you stubbornly and blindly REFUSE to see them - I can't help you with that - And I am very sorry you seek conflict where none exists - At no point did I say that there is no mention of the world beyond in the Bible -

 

[Blooper]

I follow the George Carlin School of Religion.

 

[WILDJC]

Bones quote: This is all EXACTLY as I said - You seek to contradict where no contradiction exists - These are just as I described - "Lofty and METAPHORICAL" - It does not tell us at all how it will FEEL - Or that there will be feelings - None of this attempts to explain the true nature - IN fact it specifically avoids that type of description by essentially saying we would not understand it - "beyond imagination" " Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man"

" Paul states that we live in a spiritual world, and the world that we physically see is temporal, a shadow, like a blade of grass which bursts forth and then withers away. " - This is identical to my previous assertions that the material world is but an illusion and subject to our perception of how the spiritual world manifests through our perception of it - In order to experience the spiritual world for what it is we must let go of all of our perceptions and see it for what it is - PURE SPIRIT - Devoid of mans conceptions and perceptions (happy - sad - pain - joy and so on) -

There is no effort to explain the true nature of this spiritual plane and I find nothing in what you quote that contradicts what I said AT ALL - Yet you pose it as a contradiction - What you show affirms my assertion that it is a very different place and the normal rules do not apply there - I have been trying very hard to point out similarities - And you stubbornly and blindly REFUSE to see them - I can't help you with that - And I am very sorry you seek conflict where none exists - At no point did I say that there is no mention of the world beyond in the Bible -


I don't seek conflict, but I don't mind a debate though. Anyway, you truly seem content in your ONENESS, and for that I am glad. I am more than content with my faith in Christ.

 

[Bones]

I don't seek conflict, but I don't mind a debate though. Anyway, you truly seem content in your ONENESS, and for that I am glad. I am more than content with my faith in Christ.

If you do not seek conflict then why did you preface your stream of quotes with - "I would like to address this."? - Normally when one says that he would "like to address" the point made by another in a debate styled context - He is suggesting that an opposing view or refuting evidence is about to be presented - You furthermore gave emphasis to this one point with bold text "He does not tell us how it will feel or what our emotions will be when we are with God " - This led me to think you were going to show me where he does - BUT - You went on only to CONFIRM my point with what you quoted - That is a very odd debating tactic - I can only assume that you either totally missed what I meant - Or the phrase "I would like to address this" means something totally different to you than it does to the rest of the world in the given context of a discussion such as this -

So if you do not seek to conflict - Will you then admit that the Bible does NOT give any practical description of the true nature of existence beyond the Earthly existence which I choose to call THE ONENESS?

Do you understand that I am in no way trying to get you to deny your faith in Christ or the truth in his Teachings? - It is not my ONENESS - It is yours and Christ's as well - You and I and Christ all exist within the ONE - There is NO DISPUTE between the two - You are the one seeking to oppose them - Not me - I am seeking to find common ground - as I have many times stated -

The ONENESS I speak to is an absolute and undeniable reality - Not a philosophy or a religious assumption - No matter how you want to look at it - It is a fact that ultimately there is only ONENESS - How could this ever not be true? - You can describe it in many ways with millions of words from a plethora of perspectives - But - There is no escaping the fact that the sum total of all things both physical and spiritual are ONE THING -

The Earth resides in the Solar System - The Solar System resides in the Galaxy - The Galaxy Resides in the Universe - The Universe we know may well be only one of an infinite number of Universes - ALL OF THAT ultimately results in the SUM TOTAL that is THE ONE - If there is a Heaven and a Hell - Then they too reside within this ALL ENCOMPASSING REALITY -This is plain and simple logic - And is not subject to debate -

This is the reality that Buddha seeks to address and that Jesus and the Bible simply do not touch on except in the most poetic and metaphorical ways - This does not mean Buddha is right and Jesus is wrong nor vice versa - It is simply a fact - Buddha addresses this reality head on and The Bible does NOT - And that was my only point -

You keep trying to see it as a process of choosing a winner in a race where the participants are not running against each other anywhere except in your mind - You do not have to reject Christ in order to learn from Buddha - And I do not have to reject Buddha in order to learn from Christ - It is not a contest!

 

[WILDJC]

If you do not seek conflict then why did you preface your stream of quotes with - "I would like to address this."? - Normally when one says that he would "like to address" the point made by another in a debate styled context - He is suggesting that an opposing view or refuting evidence is about to be presented - You furthermore gave emphasis to this one point with bold text "He does not tell us how it will feel or what our emotions will be when we are with God " - This led me to think you were going to show me where he does - BUT - You went on only to CONFIRM my point with what you quoted - That is a very odd debating tactic - I can only assume that you either totally missed what I meant - Or the phrase "I would like to address this" means something totally different to you than it does to the rest of the world in the given context of a discussion such as this -

So if you do not seek to conflict - Will you then admit that the Bible does NOT give any practical description of the true nature of existence beyond the Earthly existence which I choose to call THE ONENESS?

Do you understand that I am in no way trying to get you to deny your faith in Christ or the truth in his Teachings? - It is not my ONENESS - It is yours and Christ's as well - You and I and Christ all exist within the ONE - There is NO DISPUTE between the two - You are the one seeking to oppose them - Not me - I am seeking to find common ground - as I have many times stated -

The ONENESS I speak to is an absolute and undeniable reality - Not a philosophy or a religious assumption - No matter how you want to look at it - It is a fact that ultimately there is only ONENESS - How could this ever not be true? - You can describe it in many ways with millions of words from a plethora of perspectives - But - There is no escaping the fact that the sum total of all things both physical and spiritual are ONE THING -

The Earth resides in the Solar System - The Solar System resides in the Galaxy - The Galaxy Resides in the Universe - The Universe we know may well be only one of an infinite number of Universes - ALL OF THAT ultimately results in the SUM TOTAL that is THE ONE - If there is a Heaven and a Hell - Then they too reside within this ALL ENCOMPASSING REALITY -This is plain and simple logic - And is not subject to debate -

This is the reality that Buddha seeks to address and that Jesus and the Bible simply do not touch on except in the most poetic and metaphorical ways - This does not mean Buddha is right and Jesus is wrong nor vice versa - It is simply a fact - Buddha addresses this reality head on and The Bible does NOT - And that was my only point -

You keep trying to see it as a process of choosing a winner in a race where the participants are not running against each other anywhere except in your mind - You do not have to reject Christ in order to learn from Buddha - And I do not have to reject Buddha in order to learn from Christ - It is not a contest!

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