Clarification needed on petition

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DoctorJ

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I've seen this petition, https://www.change.org/p/u-s-senate...products-ae532682-770e-442b-b155-1c352c1241b6 , on this forum for quite awhile now and am really confused at its goals, besides not wanting "vapor products" classified as a tobacco product.

Disclaimer-- This is not meant to bash this petition, rather an opinion to make it more clear and well defined.

The main issue that immediately becomes clear once reading the petition is that a group of petitioners do not want "vapor products" classified as tobacco products, however, the petition does not give a clear answer as to what these petitioners want vapor products to be classified as. The petition concludes by saying, "Instead of relegating vapor products to tobacco control, a new category of product regulation can be implemented, one that could inspire innovation along with public health and safety. The best way to protect this life altering technology is to not place it under the auspices of the FSPTCA, by not deeming vapor products as tobacco products."

The claim is made that nicotine is NOT a tobacco product, however, in the petition a conciliatory statement is made, "While some vapor products do contain nicotine, many do not, and this is where the link to tobacco ends." It is here the petition clearly states that there is a link to tobacco. So my question is, how can these petitioners make a demand that vapor products should not be labeled as a tobacco product when it is clearly stated in the petition?

Later in the petition it reads, " Vapor products are free of tobacco..." Uhhhhh, read the above paragraph. The petition clearly admits a link to tobacco. I have asked this question before and received some really scathing remarks, however, I'll ask again, where does nicotine for consumer use come from? Yes it has been pointed out that nicotine occurs in other plants in nature such as nightshade, but the nicotine in e juice comes from tobacco. I am not aware of any synthetic nicotine that is used.

Besides the claim that nicotine is not a tobacco product, another issue with this petition that does not address what the real issue is, that being e juice. The petition lumps all vaping products into one, to include: batteries, clearomizers, tanks, etc... IMO the most important and "controversial" product of the "vaping debate" is clearly e juice and its contents, nicotine.

Besides what I've stated about this issue and what the petition has to say, there needs to be a more clear goal as to the classification of nicotine and e juice other than "a new category of product". Also, the claims made in the petition need to be fact and not "as suggested by studies". The references need to be incorporated into the petition itself. It is rather tedious to read a claim and then click on the link to read another article supporting the claim; especially the scientific study with a lot of "science speak" that most laymen, like myself, do not understand. Basically the petition reads like, "This is what we want, however, we're not exactly sure how we want it, but this is what we want..."

So what do the petitioners want "vapor products" to be classified as???
 

philoshop

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Part of the intent with the petition was to raise awareness of the issue: Lumping vaping in with tobacco products will be detrimental to the industry. Toward that end it has been somewhat successful.

Vaping doesn't really have to be 'classified' as anything. It is recreational use of nicotine, for the most part, without the harmful side effects of smoking. Not much different than coffee really, except that caffeine has never been demonized the way that nicotine has.
 

FlamingoTutu

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I’m not speaking for Les, just as one of the group that banded together out of frustration to try to “do something.”

There was a thread here for some time asking for suggestions on what to put into a petition. We all made suggestions and Les wrote it up. Did we make mistakes? Yes, 20/20 hindsight is wonderful. When we asked for help from the powers that be, we didn’t get much. Those that helped we are grateful to. We did the best we could with what we had and gave it a go.

Petitions, by their very nature, help raise awareness about an issue so was naturally our secondary goal. Les has been using petition updates to make people aware of CASAA, CTAs, etc. It would be nice if we knew then what we know now. If there is a time machine available, we’d love to borrow it for a few minutes.

Les stood up, took the bull by the horns and tried to make a difference. I believe he has and will continue to support the petition until the end.
 

Chip H.

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They should be classified as recreational electronic nicotine delivery systems, full stop. Yes, effectively 100% of the nicotine used in them is sourced from tobacco, but that *should* not be enough to regulate them as a tobacco product. When consumers look to the FDA for better labeling and/or regulation of refined sugar content in food we don't expect to see our bread and processed meat wind up lumped under a broad corn, sugar beet, or sugar cane classification even though whatever added sugars wind up in our bread or processed meat (generally unnecessarily so but that is another topic) most likely come from one of those three sources. Yet, that is the legal logic being applied here, where the root source for the nicotine is all but magically determining the semantic excuse for the upcoming FDA proposals.

In regards to the upcoming deeming proposals we are looking at 1 of 2 possibilities:

1. The FDA is succumbing to political pressure to "do something" about ENDS. However, since the better idea, regulating ENDS as their own product classification, would require authority from Congress (and good luck getting our current Congress to do something like that), the FDA feels it must try to classify and regulate these devices as a tobacco product, otherwise they are largely powerless and know they would remain so indefinitely under the current political inefficacy of Congress.

2. The FDA really is out to significantly curtail and/or destroy the ENDS industry by lumping it in with a well demonized product classification.

The cautious optimist in me wants to assume it's more about #1 than #2, although at this point we really don't know, but regulation as a tobacco product will have all manner of unintended consequences down the road if not in the short term.

Nicotine addiction/habituation/dependence/use (insert your word of choice here) came to us via whole tobacco use, but much like how caffeine came to us via the kola nut, coffee, and tea, that artificial limitation left the station a long time ago, and it's time our laws and regulations reflect that.
 

Chip H.

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Is Coca-Cola a coffee bean or coca product?
The original product contained coca (the raw source for a white powdery substance that goes up the noses of some people), hence the name, but that was removed and replaced with caffeine. The flavor, while based on the kola nut, has no kola nut extract either and is composed of a proprietary blend of flavorings. The name is a lie lol
 
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Lessifer

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I’m fairly certain I’ve responded to you before, but I’ll give it another shot.

Yes, in a broad sense, e-liquid that contains nicotine can be considered a tobacco product, as it contains a derivative of tobacco. Much the same way that a Pepsi can be considered a corn product, as it contains a derivative of corn, high fructose corn syrup.

However, the intent of the petition is not to change the literal definition of tobacco product, but rather to keep vapor products from falling under the REGULATORY DEFINITION of “tobacco product.” Something that is deemed a tobacco product by the FDA falls under the FSPTCA, and all of the regulations that come with it.

The primary purpose of the petition is exactly what it states, to urge congress to reject the deeming of vapor products as tobacco products, placing them under the FSPTCA. I did not make any suggestions for an alternative, because that is not my place, that would come from a legislator.

It makes no sense to classify an entire range of products as tobacco because SOME of them contain a derivative of tobacco. It makes more sense to treat vapor products as a whole, with regulations that are not based on the possible harms of a completely unrelated product.

The secondary purpose of the petition, as others have stated, is to spread information and raise awareness. There is information in the petition itself, for those who wish to read it. I have also been using the update feature to spread even more information, as it comes to me, as well as raise awareness of various calls to action.
 

bluecat

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Part of the intent with the petition was to raise awareness of the issue: Lumping vaping in with tobacco products will be detrimental to the industry. Toward that end it has been somewhat successful.

Vaping doesn't really have to be 'classified' as anything. It is recreational use of nicotine, for the most part, without the harmful side effects of smoking. Not much different than coffee really, except that caffeine has never been demonized the way that nicotine has.

I would love to have it classified as a eggplant product. Maybe they could classify it as a coolant for radiators. Ooooo french fries! We could also classify it as a constipation remedy.

The government grabbed something out of the air and is holding tight.
 

Boden

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The original product contained coca (the raw source for a white powdery substance that goes up the noses of some people), hence the name, but that was removed and replaced with caffeine. The flavor, while based on the kola nut, has no kola nut extract either and is composed of a proprietary blend of flavorings. The name is a lie lol
Look up "Stepan Company"
 
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