class action against the FDA and Health Canada
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I've got an idea. I really don't think it's possible to sue the FDA or HC. (I know, we've had that discussion.) However, I do think we can sue all of the big anti-tobacco organizations. And here's the case:
They have known for years and years that smokeless tobacco is of FAR less harm than cigarettes. Yet they purposely refused to publicize the information. If we could sue a federal agency, then I'd throw in the FDA too. But I don't think we can do it.
Anyway, get everyone together that has verified COPD and we sue the .......* for every dime they are worth. Because if they had known that there were less risky alternatives they probably wouldn't have COPD. I know I was pretty ...... off when I found out! Personally, I think there is RICO case here.
We also at the same time start contacting all the AGs in every state demanding that they start paying attention to those Truth ads and demand that they produce actual data that backs up their claims.
Or maybe it's three in the morning and I'm just tired.
Whatya think?
They have known for years and years that smokeless tobacco is of FAR less harm than cigarettes. Yet they purposely refused to publicize the information. If we could sue a federal agency, then I'd throw in the FDA too. But I don't think we can do it.
Anyway, get everyone together that has verified COPD and we sue the .......* for every dime they are worth. Because if they had known that there were less risky alternatives they probably wouldn't have COPD. I know I was pretty ...... off when I found out! Personally, I think there is RICO case here.
We also at the same time start contacting all the AGs in every state demanding that they start paying attention to those Truth ads and demand that they produce actual data that backs up their claims.
Or maybe it's three in the morning and I'm just tired.
Whatya think?
Now this is something that would appear to be a possibility. I'd love to get lawyers in there on discovery. I'll say no more since I don't know if they have some type of protection, but if they don't it would be a good place to generate some much needed publicity.
I really don't know anything about legal stuff. But I do know that when I found out that smokeless tobacco was far less harmful than cigarettes AND they knew this for a very long time, I was (am) furious. All these years I've been smoking because I couldn't quit and I always heard that smokeless was just as bad or worse. ARG! 
Anyway, I'm just sick of all the deceit. In my mind, it's just as bad as anything the tobacco companies did.
Anyway, I'm just sick of all the deceit. In my mind, it's just as bad as anything the tobacco companies did.
I really don't know anything about legal stuff. But I do know that when I found out that smokeless tobacco was far less harmful than cigarettes AND they knew this for a very long time, I was (am) furious. All these years I've been smoking because I couldn't quit and I always heard that smokeless was just as bad or worse. ARG!
Anyway, I'm just sick of all the deceit. In my mind, it's just as bad as anything the tobacco companies did.
Janet, you couldn't be more correct. I even avoided looking at snus for about six months here because of the preconceived notions I had about smokeless based on the reports that this conspiracy fabricated.
I did try chew a while back, but that wasn't happening on so many fronts. However, snus, snuff (not for me, but for those that don't mind nasal applications) and the newer non-smoking products should have been encouraged rather than vilified as they are now.
The horror of this issue is that if the antis are ever successful and tobacco is banned forever, except for the underworld business that will surely develop and thrive, these groups will need a new justification for their existence and continuation. Will the enemy be Caffeine? Chocolate? Processed sugar?
I guess it depends on what Big Pharma wants to "cure". Funny, I'm watching the morning news and we have a health watch that announced that heavy drinking shortens a chromosome that is also decreased by aging and increased the risk of cancer. Another study found that about one third of us carry a genetic variant that makes them more vulnerable to obesity and Alzheimer's disease and had reduced brain volume (does that mean they're stupider?). I'm sure that BP can develop a drug for this and the antis with 33% of the population to "cure" will have a new target.
I heard on the news that there's a big pharmaceutical company out there that has developed a pill that cuts the effects of nicotine on the brain. In other words, take a pill and you won't be addicted to nicotine. Sure. In other words, they've found yet another 'pharmaceutical cure'. I'm sure it'll be right up there with the patch, the gum and the B.S. inhalers.
In profit.
As for the donation, I'm in!!
In profit.
As for the donation, I'm in!!
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yes, regarding pills and vaccines to eliminate the nicotine addiction, what I know from someone that tried it is that they only make you feel sick if you smoke after that for a long time. So, you are still addicted to cigs but you can't smoke them because you'll get sick, that's a pretty dumb and ugly solution. Cut the nic addiction ? I thought that nic was the smallest problem in cigs.
But maybe I'm wrong, don't take my word for it.
But maybe I'm wrong, don't take my word for it.
I heard on the news that there's a big pharmaceutical company out there that has developed a pill that cuts the effects of nicotine on the brain. In other words, take a pill and you won't be addicted to nicotine. Sure. In other words, they've found yet another 'pharmaceutical cure'. I'm sure it'll be right up there with the patch, the gum and the B.S. inhalers.
In profit.
As for the donation, I'm in!!
The vaccine is being discussed in this thread: http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...021-nicotine-vaccine-preliminary-results.html
I like it. We have the American Lung Association advising people (in effect) to go back to smoking until the FDA determines e-cigarettes are safe (unethical). We have the American Cancer Society sponsoring research that compares smokers who switched to smokeless with never-users of tobacco. The researchers then use the results to "prove" that smokless is more dangerous than continued smoking (misleading, because they did not provide any data on contiuing smokers). We have the American Heart Association (and the other organizations, as well) taking statistics about effects of smoking on health and substituting "tobacco" for "smoking" (verifiable falsehood). And then we have Matthew Myers of Campaign for Tobacco Free Kids writing the propaganda that starts out as "kids might be attracted to these products" and morphs into "these products are being sold mostly to kids" (at the very least, massive exaggeration, but possible outright falsehood.)
I could accept any of the health organizations taking a stand that they are not going to recommend the products until more data is available. I cannot accept them moving heaven and earth trying to get the products banned. They are trying to kill me. I take that personally.
They have the facts. They know that there is nothing inherently dangerous in the ingredients. They know that massive numbers of smokers are becoming former smokers due to using the products. They know that these folks are experience improvements in their health. They know that there have been no health problems reported with the use.
Given that knowledge, their actions are unethical and immoral.
Amen Vocalek!
I could definitely get on board with this. I lost two grandmothers to lung cancer and in both cases donations to the ALA and ACS were requested in lieu of flowers. If either of these women had an inkling of what these groups would end up standing for today, they would have said just to send the flowers.
Jim Rothenberger just did a piece on the twisting of facts and figures; Want to Die, Don't Smoke! - Associated Content - associatedcontent.com It's a very good example of the way they are twisting things.
I could definitely get on board with this. I lost two grandmothers to lung cancer and in both cases donations to the ALA and ACS were requested in lieu of flowers. If either of these women had an inkling of what these groups would end up standing for today, they would have said just to send the flowers.
Jim Rothenberger just did a piece on the twisting of facts and figures; Want to Die, Don't Smoke! - Associated Content - associatedcontent.com It's a very good example of the way they are twisting things.
Wow, cool! I was beginning to think I was crazy. I truly think there are many cases that could be made here and what we need is an organization...hate to say it...like ASH that forces everyone to TELL THE TRUTH! And I mean about everything smoking/tobacco related.
So, no my question is, how do we start? Maybe this needs a new thread. I think I've totally highjacked this one. Sorry OP.
So, no my question is, how do we start? Maybe this needs a new thread. I think I've totally highjacked this one. Sorry OP.
Count me in. I'll gladly help sue anyone who would rather I keep smoking analogs and die coughing and wheezing.
Quick and easy demonstration for the uninformed.
Take a 10 second hit off your ecig and blow in face ..... nothing
Take a drag off an analog and blow in face .... cough, cough, ewwww
If that alone doesnt make our point, nothing ever will.
disclaimer......victim should be willing participant. I wouldnt even blow vapor into someones face that wasnt expecting it.
Quick and easy demonstration for the uninformed.
Take a 10 second hit off your ecig and blow in face ..... nothing
Take a drag off an analog and blow in face .... cough, cough, ewwww
If that alone doesnt make our point, nothing ever will.
disclaimer......victim should be willing participant. I wouldnt even blow vapor into someones face that wasnt expecting it.
Count me in for at least $50 - I'll be paying in Australian Dollars, so after the conversion am actually pledging around 45.9250 USD
We definitely need more happening against the antis and such, we need to go at them from multiple angles simultaneously....get it done and i'm in for some regular pledges....
We definitely need more happening against the antis and such, we need to go at them from multiple angles simultaneously....get it done and i'm in for some regular pledges....
So form April until August 2010 this thread pretty much died, is this the kind of thing that we can expect to happen overall in this community?
OP why have you stopped rallying for pledges, have we run out of steam already=?
Any updates?
Chill.
OP why have you stopped rallying for pledges, have we run out of steam already=?
Any updates?
Chill.
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