Clone Versus Authentic Discussion

[Edward Aiz]

Clones are cool but we must always remember that a clone will have blemishes like tilted center posts, metal flaking, screws that may not sit well or stripped easily, machine oil etc (of course authentics are not perfect but they are nearly so).

I bought the El Cabron Slick about 6 weeks ago, and though it is an authentic and built like a horse I prefer the doge X over the El Cabron.

I figure as long as the buyer is made aware that it is a clone it's cool, it's only those clone makers who attempt to make it appear that it is not a clone or the clone manufacturers which print on the device the original designer/manufacturer without informing the buyer that it is really a clone. Outside of this, clones have their purpose; there are some vapors who don't want to purchase a rda at $150, instead go for the clone which would be around $30. If a millionaire then buy ONLY authentic, if a working class stiff, buy some authentics and the rest clones. To each their own.

 

[USMCotaku]

To say all clones come with problems would be like saying all authentics are perfect.......
Sent with one hand, the other is busy vaping.

 

[alicewonderland]

To say all clones come with problems would be like saying all authentics are perfect.......
Sent with one hand, the other is busy vaping.

true, I have clones that arent well thought out (some rogue clones with centerposts too high they hit the cape sometimes after certain builds) but still work with some extra 'fiddling' but the fiddling is worth the ~400$ i saved buying 5 clone backups instead of 5 authentic backups.

Also have perfectly working condition versions of other RDA's and pefectly working example of mods without any of the mentioned problems

Clones are cool but we must always remember that a clone will have blemishes like tilted center posts, metal flaking, screws that may not sit well or stripped easily, machine oil etc (of course authentics are not perfect but they are nearly so).

 

[Nikkita6]

Clones are cool but we must always remember that a clone will have blemishes like tilted center posts, metal flaking, screws that may not sit well or stripped easily, machine oil etc (of course authentics are not perfect but they are nearly so).

Oh how I wish that were true .. I had to post this here as I am blown away by the timing of my recent experience and this thread...

So anyhoo .. I am a happy owner of an authentic Anatolian Hit IT SE mod that I recently bought from a friend. Being so happy with it, I joined the FB group of this particular modder and recently purchased the most current version of this mod which is the Hit iThin.

What drew me in was the story behind the mod, but also the fact that these are hand made mechanical mods, not CNC machined, so I liked that touch. Fed Ex delivered my new Anatolian Hit iThin today. At first glance all seemed well ..

Then I started inspecting the mod This is the DIRTIEST piece of vape gear that I have ever received in my life and I am not kidding .. I never seen anything like this, and I am SHOCKED that this was even sent out in this condition. I have seen and touched more clones than I care to count, but I have NEVER received a Chinese clone that was in the filthy condition of this authentic hand turned Turkish made mod.

I also have never had my soapy water turn black while cleaning a mod either ... that is until today The only aspect of this mod that was clean out of the package was the extra brass hybrid top cap that I bought to go with this.

At first I laughed about this, and wasn't really that upset even as this mod looked like it was used to scoop up soil before it was sent to me. And as if this exceptionally filthy condition of this mod wasn't enough .. what is up with the double spacing between the 7 and 8 on my serial #? So janky And whoever handled my invoice prior shipping this was also as dirty as this mod based on the large smear of dirt on the invoice.

And to top this all off this is also the crappiest switch I have ever handled ... truly ever. Crunchy and sticking is an understatement and again I am SHOCKED! At the end of the day, while I am a little disappointed, I am not mad. These are toys to me, and I certainly did not need this mech, so I will survive.

My only point is that "all that glitters is not always gold". And while I absolutely agree that there tends to be more QC issues and fail rates with cloned devices, it is absolutely NOT TRUE that buying authentic means you will be getting near perfection. ;-)

 

[Mtek]

Having spent almost 3 yrs in the Middle East, and and 2 of those in Turkey. I am not surprised. Beautiful country, and wonderful people, but cleanliness isn't something I would expect from anything there.

Speaking of "clones", a friend of mine spent a month in jail there. We had been drinking too much and one night he urinated on a statue as we were stumbling home. The statue happened to be Attaturk, basically their G. Washington..,and revered big time. He spent a month in a cell with 10 others, and I won't speak of how they ate or used the bathroom. Anyway, we got him out as the judge wanted several sets of "authentic" US market Levi's. Clothing there is counterfeited big time.

Still a cool mod Nikki, I'd love to have it.

 

[sonicbomb]

The practice of clones ripping off brand logos is entirely indefensible and illegal for a good reason.

Cheap knockoffs are and have been a part of retail forever. As long as the consumer knows what they are buying, then I don't see it as an issue. I have bought many 'after market' parts for cars and bikes. I was fairly assured of potentially getting a lesser quality part, but my own budget constraints made the decision for me. The parts still get the job done.

When I buy a $8 clone RDA from FT I EXPECT it to rubbish, but it serves as a cheap try-before-you-buy. If I get on well with it, I often buy the original assuming reports of quality are favorable. However, I have bought clones found the quality to be superb and not bought the authentic. I have also bought authentics straight off the bat like the Mutation X because reports of it's quality were favorable, and most importantly so was the price point.


“Quality isn't something you lay on top of objects like tinsel on a Christmas tree. Real Quality must be the source of the subjects and objects, the cone from which the tree must start"
~ Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance - by Robert Pirsig

There's also I great section of the book where the protagonist offers to fix a fault on an expensive brand bike, using a shim made from an empty beer can. His friend refuses and is slightly insulted. The bottom line being that his friend could not see the shim for what it could do for him, only what it was.

 

[Nikkita6]

Having spent almost 3 yrs in the Middle East, and and 2 of those in Turkey. I am not surprised. Beautiful country, and wonderful people, but cleanliness isn't something I would expect from anything there.

Speaking of "clones", a friend of mine spent a month in jail there. We had been drinking too much and one night he urinated on a statue as we were stumbling home. The statue happened to be Attaturk, basically their G. Washington..,and revered big time. He spent a month in a cell with 10 others, and I won't speak of how they ate or used the bathroom. Anyway, we got him out as the judge wanted several sets of "authentic" US market Levi's. Clothing there is counterfeited big time.

Still a cool mod Nikki, I'd love to have it.

Yes, the Middle East is very err .. Old World if you will. I had a 30 day vacation in the Middle East a few years ago, in North Lebanon, Hasroun to be exact. It was an experience unlike any other that I have had. I loved everything about it except for the misogyny, and the security check points from Beirut to Hasroun.

And let me tell ya I have some stories too! Like when my friends dad asked me if I wanted some cheese, and proceeded to pull a goat's skin full of homemade cheese out of their "fridge" Although I am sure that with your 3 yrs in the Middle East my stories would pale in comparison. Wow, scary times for your friend eh?

I still would have expected them to clean this mod up a bit before shipping though, especially since their customer base is outside of Turkey. Once I got it cleaned up I was still happy with how it looked, but I am more impressed with the SE that my friend was crazy enough to sell me. But as I said, I am not angry, this is just a material object for me to play with, and I am sure that I can fix up this switch ... but that serial # though?

And you're right, it is still a cool mod but I just hope that the atty I bought to go with it will be a little cleaner. What is life like in Poland? Tell me now so I know what to expect!

 

[Sirius]

Oh how I wish that were true .. I had to post this here as I am blown away by the timing of my recent experience and this thread...

So anyhoo .. I am a happy owner of an authentic Anatolian Hit IT SE mod that I recently bought from a friend. Being so happy with it, I joined the FB group of this particular modder and recently purchased the most current version of this mod which is the Hit iThin.

What drew me in was the story behind the mod, but also the fact that these are hand made mechanical mods, not CNC machined, so I liked that touch. Fed Ex delivered my new Anatolian Hit iThin today. At first glance all seemed well ..

Then I started inspecting the mod This is the DIRTIEST piece of vape gear that I have ever received in my life and I am not kidding .. I never seen anything like this, and I am SHOCKED that this was even sent out in this condition. I have seen and touched more clones than I care to count, but I have NEVER received a Chinese clone that was in the filthy condition of this authentic hand turned Turkish made mod.

I also have never had my soapy water turn black while cleaning a mod either ... that is until today The only aspect of this mod that was clean out of the package was the extra brass hybrid top cap that I bought to go with this.


At first I laughed about this, and wasn't really that upset even as this mod looked like it was used to scoop up soil before it was sent to me. And as if this exceptionally filthy condition of this mod wasn't enough .. what is up with the double spacing between the 7 and 8 on my serial #? So janky And whoever handled my invoice prior shipping this was also as dirty as this mod based on the large smear of dirt on the invoice.


And to top this all off this is also the crappiest switch I have ever handled ... truly ever. Crunchy and sticking is an understatement and again I am SHOCKED! At the end of the day, while I am a little disappointed, I am not mad. These are toys to me, and I certainly did not need this mech, so I will survive.

My only point is that "all that glitters is not always gold". And while I absolutely agree that there tends to be more QC issues and fail rates with cloned devices, it is absolutely NOT TRUE that buying authentic means you will be getting near perfection. ;-)

Nikkita .. I'm sorry you went through all this to find out what many of us already know..Sometimes the cloned,..copied,..counterfeit,..rip-offs,.. are made better than the authentics.

 

[Nikkita6]

Nikkita .. I'm sorry you went through all this to find out what many of us already know..Sometimes the cloned,..copied,..counterfeit,..rip-offs,.. are made better than the authentics.

Thank you dear .. But, in all fairness this is the first higher end authentic device that I have received in this condition, although my Poldiac and GP Paps Lux were also a little dusty upon receipt, but nothing like this. And it is the truth that I have never, ever received a clone that was this dirty either.

I will continue to buy any authentic that suits my fancy because I know what I like now, and I won't let this singular incident put me off. But as I have said many times before, it is not true to say that all authentics are worth it, or that all clones are crap because neither is true. On both sides of the fence you can will win some and lose some.

I am lucky in that most of the time it is a Win for me, and on both sides. ;-)

 

[Ctufankjian]

I honestly don't have a position or any conviction regarding this. It bugs me that clones are knock offs and often bear the name of the original manufacturer, but I have a fake derringer, and a real one, and they honestly vape about the same. So, from a functionality standpoint, they're a pretty dang good deal. From a morality standpoint, it's a struggle.

 

[nevillebartos]

I honestly don't have a position or any conviction regarding this. It bugs me that clones are knock offs and often bear the name of the original manufacturer, but I have a fake derringer, and a real one, and they honestly vape about the same. So, from a functionality standpoint, they're a pretty dang good deal. From a morality standpoint, it's a struggle.

Bearing the logo really shows the intention doesn't it? If it were ever so slightly different and wore a different logo it would be looked at differently, considered an authentic in its own right, right?

 

[Ca Ike]

I'm chiming in here. But I still have a lot to read yet. I have a few kfl clones and a couple k4 clones. At the time I got the kfl clones I didn't know much about them but thought since they had all the markings eh pro was making legit copies. I found out shortly after they weren't legit and I have a real problem with that. Now eh pro makes really good quality stuff and compared to my authentic they were only slightly inferior. Some tolerance differences and 316 SS instead of 316l. I'm not comfortable recommending a counterfeit but now that they don't copy the logos, on a safety / quality standpoint I can recommend eh pro as a company for good products.


My K4 is another story. I was gifted this to try out by a local shop and it is a true counterfeit. Design, logos, box, insert and even authentication sticker copied. But it is by far inferior in a lot of ways. Plain SS housing( barely meets food grade standard) , PC window claimed as glass, aluminum alloy chimney and tolerances so bad it leaks, jc nut won't stay tight and chimney slop causes shorts. Not to mention the huge amount of machine residue.

The extra steps to insure transparency in materials and finish work, including cleaning are worth a lot to me and most good authentic makers including kanger, h-cigar and eh pro have that level of quality. Some to a lesser degree mainly due to production volume.

I still can't recommend clones, but if someone wants one I will recommend clone makers I know that have some integrity and stand behind their products.

 

[TheotherSteveS]

A good example of the craziness of clones is my experience with an Omerta clone from 3Fvape. The machining is very good, etc etc. Almost without blemish as far as I can see, no burring etc. Posts firmly attched to base and post holes perfectly aligned running front-to-back! Great right? Wrong. The proble is that the post holes should be aligned across the deck, 90deg to where they are. Its precise engineering just not accurate. The thing is thus even more diffciult to build on than the original. Nice to look at, almost perfect really except it is unusable because whover put it together has never seen a real one and doesnt know how they work!

 

[Ca Ike]

They are generics. Get your facts straight.

No, they are not generics. Generics are authorized unbranded products made to the same standards as the original using the originals exact specs by purchase of the plans, formula,etcetera from the creator and have to be sold as such. These clones (with the known exception of the Zna) are all unauthorized, illegal( except in China) copies of an original design making them counterfeits even if logo less.

 

[roxynoodle]

Well, I'm using the ECF definitions from the classified rules.

Counterfeit: bears the logos and writing of the authentic

Clone: no logos or different logo from authentic.

 

[My Name Is Earl]

Well, I'm using the ECF definitions from the classified rules.

Counterfeit: bears the logos and writing of the authentic

Clone: no logos or different logo from authentic.

I want to get verified, and read those rules. It looks like they cover anything that is the same shape as the original.

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...-guidelines-updated-often-without-notice.html

Clone - Can be similar in size, shape(unless shape is unique) and even design but will not contain the same markings or colors. As long as the device can be distinguished as different from the original, not just by the word clone, it will be considered a clone. Just by declaring a device a clone in it's title or description will not necessarily make it a clone. The clone device should be absent of all characteristics contained in the original, to include grooves, cutouts, coloring, shape if unique, and/or trademarks.

**As long as the device can be distinguished as different from the original, not just by the word clone, it will be considered a clone.

 

[Pinggolfer]

Well, I'm using the ECF definitions from the classified rules.

Counterfeit: bears the logos and writing of the authentic

Clone: no logos or different logo from authentic.

Those are the rules but still dishonest members here will try to sell the counterfeit as being real. I don't own a K4 and couldn't tell the difference between the 3 K4's in a previous post. I could easily buy a fake.

 

[roxynoodle]

Looks like they've updated the clone definition from the last time I've read them.

 

[roxynoodle]

Those are the rules but still dishonest members here will try to sell the counterfeit as being real. I don't own a K4 and couldn't tell the difference between the 3 K4's in a previous post. I could easily buy a fake.

I know. The only way to stop it is for China to stop doing the logos.

One must be very careful. Its sad, but dishonest people will always exisr. Just yesterday I discovered my ex husband tried to charge thousands in medical bills to me and my insurance company. We've been divorced for 16 years.

 

[roxynoodle]

I made a recent goof myself. I got some Flash e clones with no logo or serial number, and thought, "cool".

The authentics have no logos or serial numbers.

So all I can say is the packaging wasn't copied.