Clone Versus Authentic Discussion

[ricks]

Or look for clones that copy the style but use their own branding, like my newest toy

Got any info on it?

 

[Freedom2Vape]

I just don't get why people here get so upset and bothered about this. It's none of their business what other people do or buy. You will NOT stop people from doing it. Just leave it alone.

Encouraging people not to buy into theft is wrong? You are correct - we won't stop everyone from doing it, but if one person understands what we are saying and they convince another person and another - who knows? Change can happen. It is about voicing opinion. I may not change your mind - and you may not change mine, but it appears that you want to suppress opinions that do not agree with your own.

I don't object to you having an opinion, but you object to me having an opinion that doesn't mirror your opinion. Me think you doth protest too much.

@roxynoodle - I do not believe that China can't create new and innovative things and have them at a price which is very appealing. It is just my opinion that theft of intellectual property is wrong, whether that theft is in China, or the US, or anywhere else.
My first two tanks were a Kanger Subtank Mini and a P3 Nautilus, both of which I enjoyed until I found ECF and the RTA forums. I've purchased the Kbox, IPV V2 Mini, IPV4 and the SX Mini "M" class and these were excellent devices. So China manufacturers can build innovative devices.
I read sedge's thread about Rebuildable Tank Atomizers and the many flavor tanks and wanted to try some of those awesome devices. Your comments and build tutorial/pictorial on the Rose is excellent.

 

[roxynoodle]

Lol, would I buy a clone that had "clone" stamped on it? Sure. I buy them for test drives or parts that are otherwise unobtainable for authentics. Or for barn/yardwork/beaters. As long as it doesn't have obscenities or porn on it, I don't care.

We have had a flood of budget authentics recently though which negates needing clones as beater tanks for me. I will still use them for parts if needed though, and a test drive for attys that vary a lot from my typical way of vaping. I'm still playing with that Origenny I was sent, and haven't decided yet if I want an authentic. It wasn't something I had given much thought to in the first place, but since its here I'm trying to determine how it might shine. And it may shine enough that I want one, who knows?

 

[roxynoodle]

Nothing really left to clone anyway. This seems so 6 months ago, which equals about 30 years in the vape world.

I been buying all name brand stuff lately. Sigelei, Chuthulu and Mutation and so on.

If I was a cloner I'd be starving right now. Tough to eat trying to clone 30 dollar atty's for 15.

There are clones of $30 attys, lol! Funny because I figured the Lemo hadn't been cloned because it was cheap to begin with. Nope, because they've cloned things like the Cthulhu, Mutations, Doges, Goblin, Fogger, Freakshow, etc. And people buy them. That makes no sense to me. The authentics are already cheap, and you can resell it if you hate it/can't build it well.

I check certain sites like Fasttech every morning to see what's been cloned. Part of my education because I do buy a lot of used attys to save money, and its certainly safer to only buy ones that haven't been cloned.

 

[luxt888]

SMPL 26650
Only in China

 

[hypocritelecteur]

Good lord even their PR reps are too young to be working...

 

[Two_Bears]

I would just like to point out that most of my clones are unbranded. I try to find one without the logo if possible, and they are out there. You just have to look a bit harder for them.

Where did you find them,

I have looked on eBay, and four smoke shops around Tucson and have never seen a clone without a logo.

 

[Two_Bears]

Out of curiosity.

Since most of you said you buy clone for the same quality with a much lower price.
Not for the sake of the brand / label.

Would you buy a clone that is labeled CLONE ?
Same function and design yet bluntly different from the authentic.
Why not show to others you saved money buying clone?
[HASHTAG]#think[/HASHTAG]

I would. I want the performance not the logo.

 

[SUPER K]

SMPL 26650
Only in China

Say what???

 

[Two_Bears]

[QUOTE="What are you going to buy? I know I'll buy the authentic. Because clones are notorious for being a lottery betting against shoddy craftsmanship, poor threading, current shorting issues, etc.

A lot of Clones today are made just as good as the authentis. Threads and all.[/QUOTE]

Absolutely correct Ricks.

 

[Two_Bears]

The reason why authentics are MORE expensive is because you pay for their intellectual property. You pay for their invention, design and time; and in some cases higher production cost.

Stainless steel, copper, brass, plastic, derlin, etc with same specifications are the same be in china or everywhere else in the world. Why china can produce something priced a third or cheaper of the same item of the same quality? because they just copy. They don't need to invent. They are just stealing someone else design and make a high precision copy.

Can china / cloners invent an authentic something in that price range?

Of course they can if they want to price it that low, but even they will charge you an intellectual property fee. The cost to invent something.

Take example Wotofo.
A cloning company based in china which now venture into making authentic. Creator of freakshow & troll rda

Wotofo sell a cloned SMPL mod by epic design but rebrand it under A-mod Logo. Same design Same button just different logo. They even call it "A-mod SMPL" to ease out people its basically a clone authentic SMPL. Price $23.99

While their authentic, an original design called phantom mod run retail for $49.99.

Why cant they sell it for $23.99 too? is it that much harder to machine a phantom mod compared to a a-mod smpl? does it take much more material / metal to create phantom mod to justify twice the price?

From a technical stand of point, NO. It takes roughly the same material to create both

Even the cloners charge for intellectual property.


Clone is stealing. Clone is counterfeit.

It takes high level of time to design and invent something from nothing.

Think if everyone buying clone.. who's there to invent? why bother creating something of that much of your time knowing your product will be counterfeited. Clone markets put a pressure toward those creators into lowering their price. They can only lower that price up to a certain level. Below that price, if you are the creator, would you even bother? spend that much of your time for that little profit? To most of them its not just a hobby to make something in spare time; they dedicate their time and life to earn living from making these goods.

Some vaping gears are also targeted toward a high-end market. Just like HERMES / ROLEX / HUBLOT / LOUISVUITTON / PRADA to name a few, they dont target it for everyone, just to certain market.
Are you the type who buy cloned watches and bags?
They've been cloned 1:1 to perfection too you know in case you are interested.

If you are blessed enough to buy authentic. Great you are supporting them for more invention.
If you don't. Save up some money. Its not that much of an investment compared to cigarette or other things in life. Most of them are even lower than a pair of your sneakers.
If you cant buy a high-end product then buy something geared toward your budget. Those Atomizer / Mod comes in variety of price range.
If you still cant afford the cheapest authentic, maybe its time to re-think about what you do in life or stop this vaping game.

If you still mumbling that clone is exactly same quality as authentic for quarter of the price. Yes some of them are that great that its hard to even tell the different and justify the price. But then you are supporting COUNTERFEIT. No different than with buying fake ROLEX, PRADA and DVD to name a few.

Buy authentic, be proud, support this small community of vaping.

But its all comes down to you. Your decision.

No love for clone. Thats where i stand.

Let me go back a little bit.

The Nova 22 (N22) I bought one of those then Wotofo copied it as the Freakshow, then Wotofo made the Freakshow Mini.

The mini had better airflow, less spitback, and 5 times the flavor of the N22. I won my authentic Freakshow Mini in an eBay auction for $14.01 delivered to my mailbox.

The only problem. With the Freakshow Mini is soft O rings and started leaking. I changed the o rings with fatter rings and works great. I gave the N22 to a financially embarrassed friend.

All of you who are pro authentics some times authentics are way over priced and sometimes the clones start their own line that is much better than the authentic ever was.

 

[roxynoodle]

I've had unbranded clones. Let me try to remember: Erlkonigin, Atomic, Flash e Vapors (although I'm not sure if the authentics have any branding ??), Ubertoot, Derringer, SquapeR. I'm too sick to think right now

That Ataman II clone I got to compare to the authentic I thought was non logoed. Ha ha, they turned it around for the photos Why put a logo on, and then hide it? Just leave it off in the first place.

I read Tobeco stopped putting it on the k4's, but I never verified that. HCigar made 3, fake logo, no logo and their logo, but you had to buy it from outside the US.

Oh, I had a Sat22 clone for a genny experiment and it was blank, but I'm not sure if the authentic is as well.

 

[luxt888]

Clone = buying a pristine precision Fake Rolex. with or without logo.

Because the real Rolex is too expensive
OR
just wanna try on your wrist before buying the real thing
OR
is to hard to find so you settle wearing fake Rolex.

Correct me if im wrong.

 

[luxt888]

Let me go back a little bit.

The Nova 22 (N22) I bought one of those then Wotofo copied it as the Freakshow, then Wotofo made the Freakshow Mini.

The mini had better airflow, less spitback, and 5 times the flavor of the N22. I won my authentic Freakshow Mini in an eBay auction for $14.01 delivered to my mailbox.

The only problem. With the Freakshow Mini is soft O rings and started leaking. I changed the o rings with fatter rings and works great. I gave the N22 to a financially embarrassed friend.

All of you who are pro authentics some times authentics are way over priced and sometimes the clones start their own line that is much better than the authentic ever was.

Freak show mini is an authentic made by Wotofo. Yes it may evolved from the Freakshow which is a clone over N22. But Freakshow mini is a product invented & created solely by Wotofo, not stole from someone else, not a 1:1 copy of anything else.

You bro got yourself an authentic.

So what you are saying is freakshow mini is a better RDA than other on the market. That is pretty subjective.

Correction: Even the Freakshow is an authentic. It may look similar at a glance with n22 but it has different airholes, different heatsink, different post hole design. It not a clone. Not a 1:1 copy.

 

[roxynoodle]

Clone = buying a pristine precision Fake Rolex. with or without logo.

Because the real Rolex is too expensive
OR
just wanna try on your wrist before buying the real thing
OR
is to hard to find so you settle wearing fake Rolex.

Correct me if im wrong.

I would say that's a good summation, although attys may be a bit more complex. Most people can use a watch. Either you like the look or you don't. I think a lot of people want to know if they can build the atty sucessfully before shelling out $100-300 for a high end authentic. And find out how fiddly or not the features are. I know a lot of people who would struggle with the k4 just because of the number of parts. A friend just got a Gem. She can't get it configured for 510 connection. I sent her the schematic, but she doesn't understand it. I found her a video and she still doesn't. She's not a visual learner nor mechanically inclined. I can almost guarantee its going into her drawer of gear she's bought and never used. So had there been a clone for her to get first to try, that may have been her best bet.

I did buy my Ubertoot clone because the authentic is pretty much unobtanium. At $300 it was very pricey to begin with. I think only 25 were sold, and very few who tried were lucky enough to get one. IF I find a used one for sale, I may have to cough up $1k or more for it, and I don't see the value in doing so. Yes, you can argue that if I won't pay that, I shouldn't have it. I just couldn't help myself with the curiousity . At least my clone is unbranded.

 

[mauricem00]

how many changes have to be made to an original design before a clone becomes an authentic? my EK V3 has all the great features of the erlkonigin but the AFC is the kanger style that can be adjusted without removing the tank.it cost 1/20th of the price of an authentic ERLKONIGIN but it well made and works great. does combining the best features of 2 different authentic make it a clone or and authentic.I vape to quit smoking and am not interested in status symbols. if a $10-15 clone can give me the same performance as a $200 original. then whats gained by spending more for the original.

 

[Two_Bears]

Freak show mini is an authentic made by Wotofo. Yes it may evolved from the Freakshow which is a clone over N22. But Freakshow mini is a product invented & created solely by Wotofo, not stole from someone else, not a 1:1 copy of anything else.

You bro got an authentic.

Correction: Even the Freakshow is an authentic. It may look similar at a glance with n22 but it has different airholes, different heatsink, different post hole design. It not a clone. Not a 1:1 copy.

Yes the Freakshow and the Freakshow Mini borrowed ideas from the N22. Both use hex screws to hold the wires down.

The n22 had small round airholes the Freak show and Freakshow Mini milled slots.

Both the n22 and the Freakshow and mini has the airflow at the bottom then turns 90 degrees and goes up and over the coil's. That is why I called it a clone. I never said it was a 1:1 clone.

I do have one authentic Freakshow Mini and a clone of the Freakshow Mini I have another authentic Freakshow Mini coming.

Then after the Freakshow cloned the N22 someone again cloned the N22 and the Freakshow and called it the Mad Hatter.

I never tried a Mad Hatter. Because the drip tip is a non standard size and I hate the logo.

The only benefit to the mad hatter is flip the lid and drip your juice on the coil and wick without removing the top.

If and when someone clones the Mad Hatter mini for the ease of dripping without making a mess I am getting one.

I know that using a chuff drip tip would ease dripping. I just don't like tips that wide.

 

[luxt888]

Yes the Freakshow and the Freakshow Mini borrowed ideas from the N22. Both use hex screws to hold the wires down.

The n22 had small round airholes the Freak show and Freakshow Mini milled slots.

Both the n22 and the Freakshow and mini has the airflow at the bottom then turns 90 degrees and goes up and over the coil's. That is why I called it a clone. I never said it was a 1:1 clone.

I do have one authentic Freakshow Mini and a clone of the Freakshow Mini I have another authentic Freakshow Mini coming.

Then after the Freakshow cloned the N22 someone again cloned the N22 and the Freakshow and called it the Mad Hatter.

I never tried a Mad Hatter. Because the drip tip is a non standard size and I hate the logo.

The only benefit to the mad hatter is flip the lid and drip your juice on the coil and wick without removing the top.

If and when someone clones the Mad Hatter mini for the ease of dripping without making a mess I am getting one.

I know that using a chuff drip tip would ease dripping. I just don't like tips that wide.

Clone is a one on one copy. Something that looks very much the same and function the same.
Those are not clone.
Its like saying Bambino is a clone of Derringer Atty.

 

[Two_Bears]

how many changes have to be made to an original design before a clone becomes an authentic? my EK V3 has all the great features of the erlkonigin but the AFC is the kanger style that can be adjusted without removing the tank.it cost 1/20th of the price of an authentic ERLKONIGIN but it well made and works great. does combining the best features of 2 different authentic make it a clone or and authentic.I vape to quit smoking and am not interested in status symbols. if a $10-15 clone can give me the same performance as a $200 original. then whats gained by spending more for the original.

I agree completely Maurice.

I have a clone of the Kanger Subtank Nano, the Veritas, the Freakshow Mini, the Zephyrus, Omega, one authentic Freakshow Mini and another on the way I have two clone Magma's. Had a N22 and have it away. Been vaping a long time.

Now am considering either the Orion V2 or the Aeolus. These get the airflow from the top then goes down to the intake for the inner chamber then back up over the coils and out the top. I know the build deck in the Idion V2 is very tight but my coils are only 6-8 wraps and 2 mm inner diameter so should have no problems.

 

[luxt888]

how many changes have to be made to an original design before a clone becomes an authentic? my EK V3 has all the great features of the erlkonigin but the AFC is the kanger style that can be adjusted without removing the tank.it cost 1/20th of the price of an authentic ERLKONIGIN but it well made and works great. does combining the best features of 2 different authentic make it a clone or and authentic.I vape to quit smoking and am not interested in status symbols. if a $10-15 clone can give me the same performance as a $200 original. then whats gained by spending more for the original.

Because the real Rolex is too expensive

Who cares about status symbol.
Besides, $200 gear is hardly something to show off for.
Such a little money if it got you free from cigarettes.

We buy authentic because we support the industry.
I owned an authentic derringer & smpl mod which both have been cloned to death.
Never once told anyone "hey this is authentic yo" ...

if a $10-15 clone can give me the same performance as a $200 original. then whats gained by spending more for the original.

That $10-15 is your donation for supporting counterfeiting.