clone vs Authentic: The Real Discussion

[Robotin]

I know this has probably been covered 1,000 times. But here I go anyways....

Alot of people say, "I cant see myself paying ~$200 for a 'real' mod, when I can spend about 10% of that to buy a clone that is exactly the same". But I say to you; We are told to support small bussiness. So when someone makes their own mods, arent they considered a small bussiness? when people purchase clones, and giving money to the Chinese, or whatever country the replica comes from, you are taking away from the "small bussiness". so shouldnt we all strive to help our fellow vapers? by putting a some coin into the pocket of people that are trying to make a living doing something they fell in love with like us?

possibly some food for thought....


I refuse to buy clones for this reason.



*** no offense meant by this post *** simply wishing to hear people reasons for purchasing clones.

 

[Roxxette]

Vaping is no longer something small, its already a big business and will continue to grow and with that comes china and the clones, if they can protect the design go for it.

Like @Dangerman posted a lot of people feel the same way and just plain and simple won't pay the prices so imo the modders are not losing customers since this people just won't pay that kind of money and i can't blame then; i was away of the forum and anything ecig related for like a year or more so i was not aware of a lot of new stuff that came out and of course the full rise of the clones here in my country pretty much 99% of the mods and attys you see around are clones (found out recently) and i was shocked with the Russian 91%, i honestly didn't know this was a clone of the small kayfun (before i went MIA from the vaping scene only big kayfun existed) all i knew was that a friend told me to try this and that it was better than my oddyseus due to only using resistance wire so i got the Russian 91 and is a great vape with top notch quality but i found out not long ago that its a clone of the small kayfun.... Well i now have a original kayfun and they are basically the same function wise but to my surprise i feel that the Russia is better made while costing less, threads are smoother, pin can be adjusted and you can tight the draw as you like.

Thats why people buy the clones, they can't justify the prices when they can get the same performance a lot cheaper of course don't assume it will be the same quality or attention to detail.

Well the only clone i own is the Russian 91, all my other gear is authentic and will continue to do so just because i prefer to support the modders but im only loyal to 2-3 its not like i buy all the new gear available.

 

[Domkayfunimous]

By the time you by quite a few 'disposables' you will have equaled the price of the authentic, which will last much longer.

I've got a few clones. The 4-9's (Infinite) seem pretty good for simplicity, build and durability, all for $50, not bad at all.

My Dom's were $200+ each by the time I got the updated switch, but you won't have to ask what I have on me when it matters, i.e.: when I'm not at work.

 

[SingedVapor]

I have bought and started out on clones. I said I would never get authentics and never cared to. I was happy with what I had. But then I began having problems with my clones, pieces breaking and falling apart. One mode even turned my hand green. All I want is a strong mod that I can bring with me to work and enjoy wherever. So I got the reo. First authentic I've ever had and I'm proud to own one. No one is saying you have to buy clones or authentic, but for me that was why I made the switch.

 

[DoubleEwe]

I totally agree with supporting small businesses, but that is only when their product is worth the price they are asking.

The problem a lot of people have with the businesses in question is that they are charging the consumer for their inability to use an effective business model.

Research and development is often stated as a reason for high costs, despite it equating to 'what logo shall we put on this tube?'. Buttons are largely the same (2 types, recessed or protruding). All use the same threading (510).

The smart move is to design it in house and then (as Dangerman says) either get it manufactured in or sell the design to China. That way they can actually do their bit for the vaping community by actually satisfying demand for their product and being able to supply it at a reasonable price.

Too many of the small businesses sell their product at prestige prices when there is no prestige with a company that has only been around for five minutes and produces the exact same thing as every other bugger out there.

This is why they don't bother to patent their design or protect it in any way, there is no point, they know that nothing is original anyway.

 

[Evilocity]

The bottom line... A lot of folks on here can't justify spending 2-3 hundred bucks for a setup when we can get the knock-off for a fraction of the price. I don't have a ton of money to spend on vaping, I have bills to pay. Some people say clones are killing the business, lol, clones ARE the business now. I'd love a nice authentic mod, I just can't afford to spend that kind of money. The clones I have work great, look great and I suspect will last many years. When authentics can be had for a reasonable price, I'll buy them instead.

 

[CloudsinCrowds]

To me its a price to performance ratio type situation. Granted im not going either way on this one. Ultimately people get what they can and for some that means all authentic mods.
Look at beyond vape! They just released the beacon and they have the sage. Both under 100. There is that copper 26650 mod that had a thread on here that was 100.
If you look around hard enough there are handful of modders that are starting to realse 100 dollar mark mods. And i really think thatis going to be the sweet spot.

 

[inswva]

At some point, there will be no authentics. Then what will the Chinese clone? China has a long history of stomping all over the innovation and hard work Americans have put into developing products. There will be no incentive for the USA (or other international) modders to develop new mods when they see all their profits going to Chinese counterfeiters. This is certainly not unique to vaping mods and has been a legitimate problem for a very long time.

I'd rather cough up the cash for an authentic knowing the money will support a small business owner who has invested his time, sweat, and money into developing a high quality product. That business owner doesn't have the "luxury" of employing third world labor nor does he have access to the massive industrial manufacturing infrastructure of the Chinese conglomerates.

edit: before I step off my soap box, I'd like to clarify that I'm not making judgments about clone buyers. I respect your decision to buy whatever you see fit. I can only control how I spend my money and don't presume to tell others how to spend theirs.

edit #2: and to further clarify, I certainly purchase products produced outside of the USA - just not counterfeit stuff. I realize purchasing Chinese made goods is unavoidable. As long as the products are original or properly licensed, I'm good.

 

[saltysteve]

Russian 91 is so good because it's not a clone. Kay fun designers had went separate ways and the Russian 91 is the former owner/partner to the kayfun. That's why you like it so much because it's actually authentic.

Clones are good maybe as a battery holder but for a atty there's definitely a difference. Also the button and pins are very important and they are crap on a clone. Clones are good if you have the time to fix them or don't have the cash or just starting. I think having more then one setup is important so everyone should really have an authentic and a clone.... I do.

Vaping is no longer something small, its already a big business and will continue to grow and with that comes china and the clones, if they can protect the design go for it.

Like @Dangerman posted a lot of people feel the same way and just plain and simple won't pay the prices so imo the modders are not losing customers since this people just won't pay that kind of money and i can't blame then; i was away of the forum and anything ecig related for like a year or more so i was not aware of a lot of new stuff that came out and of course the full rise of the clones here in my country pretty much 99% of the mods and attys you see around are clones (found out recently) and i was shocked with the Russian 91%, i honestly didn't know this was a clone of the small kayfun (before i went MIA from the vaping scene only big kayfun existed) all i knew was that a friend told me to try this and that it was better than my oddyseus due to only using resistance wire so i got the Russian 91 and is a great vape with top notch quality but i found out not long ago that its a clone of the small kayfun.... Well i now have a original kayfun and they are basically the same function wise but to my surprise i feel that the Russia is better made while costing less, threads are smoother, pin can be adjusted and you can tight the draw as you like.

Thats why people buy the clones, they can't justify the prices when they can get the same performance a lot cheaper of course don't assume it will be the same quality or attention to detail.

Well the only clone i own is the Russian 91, all my other gear is authentic and will continue to do so just because i prefer to support the modders but im only loyal to 2-3 its not like i buy all the new gear available.

 

[Cearamm]

This is why i support good modders, like atmomixani and atmizoo and svoemesto etc etc etc. also loki lab.

These modders produce amazing pieces for a fair price. Id say an authentic nemesis mod is worth every penny of the 179.99 it costs. A chi you is like 230. I would never spend over 200 on a mod unless it was a special piece

Ive ranted on this topic countless times but i wont today. Anyone who says a clone is just as good is just kidding themselves. It may be 95% as good...but theres just that little touch of something missing. Lets call it the love that modders put into theirnwork.

By the way,
If you didnt have pioneer modders then you wouldnt have any nice ripoff mods to vape. Maybe think of it likenthat.

 

[Zealous]

Russian 91 is so good because it's not a clone. Kay fun designers had went separate ways and the Russian 91 is the former owner/partner to the kayfun. That's why you like it so much because it's actually authentic.

This is an urban legend. Someone recently posted an announcement from The developers of the Kayfun in which they denied this.

here's the link: http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...put-svoemesto-kayfun-russian-rumors-rest.html

 

[Asbestos4004]

The Russian is a clone. The 3 partners in Svoemesto are still partners. Nobody split and built the kayfun. Thats urban legend and completely false. The Russian is a great atty though. Its made in China.
Buy what you want and can afford. I own both. I like both.

 

[EuroChris]

I totally understand why folks buy clones. Prices are high, and the availability is not always there.

I buy originals because I know I will appreciate them more. I also want to support the people who makes them. If I don't like them anymore, I can sell them without that much of a loss.


My two cents.

 

[tj99959]

I would just point out that FatDaddy didn't go into business with fixes for the clones, he started his business with fixes for the OEM mechanical mods. Those fixes just happen to also work in the clones .......... imagine that!

 

[AveryW]

I know this has probably been covered 1,000 times. But here I go anyways....

Alot of people say, "I cant see myself paying ~$200 for a 'real' mod, when I can spend about 10% of that to buy a clone that is exactly the same". But I say to you; We are told to support small bussiness. So when someone makes their own mods, arent they considered a small bussiness? when people purchase clones, and giving money to the Chinese, or whatever country the replica comes from, you are taking away from the "small bussiness". so shouldnt we all strive to help our fellow vapers? by putting a some coin into the pocket of people that are trying to make a living doing something they fell in love with like us?

possibly some food for thought....


I refuse to buy clones for this reason.



*** no offense meant by this post *** simply wishing to hear people reasons for purchasing clones.

Honestly, the whole reason I have clones is that they're all I can afford, it's not a why buy this when I can get this cheap. The best authentics I own are my igow and w3. If I had the money for the authentic atties and mods I would.

Sent from the mothership.

 

[caged]

The companies making the authentic products can't even keep up with demand so what do you expect people to do? I have no problem with clones. I would pay a small premium for an original but not 4 to 5 times more. The people making the authentic are just copying what the Chinese started anyway.

 

[wrath186]

Just my two cents, but I tend to buy what ever catches my eye. I have several mods including an authentic Vanilla and a V3Tronix Flup. I also have a cloned Nemesis and King mod. All of them get regular use in my rotation.

 

[SilentEcho13]

I spent $179 on a billet box, $150 on a DZ d30s, retail for a reo mini. These mods all have some "substance", and are worth their prices in my opinion.

If an American modder, or any modder for that matter, has to sell a metal tube which is generally much easier to design and machine for $200, they're in the wrong line of business. Sure they're trying to make a living, but perhaps they should get a 9-5. It's about perceived value in my opinion. I'll buy a clone if the authentic shows no real value or innovation. To my fellow CAD artists: we all know that not very much goes into most tube mods.

 

[auxsend]

I get what you're saying. The support American made argument is a nice thought.

There are three problems with most any "Authentic". Mech Mods are the worst offenders.

1. A Mechanical Mod at its core - is a metal tube. With a switch that moves about 1 or two milimeters on a spring based mechanism.
The designs are cool. But I have seen very few of them that are hand carved, hand etched, hand engraved etc. 99 percent of mech mods are made with an automated etching or machining process.

2. This is not a 250 dollar product. This was made clear when someone offered equal performing clones of said products for a fraction of the price, and obviously still made a profit. And continue to make a profit.

3. It almost seems like the people who make these "Authentic" Mods have no interest in this hobby other than cashing in quick and disappearing.

You cannot buy an Authentic Mech Mod from any maker unless you have pre-ordered it 3 months ahead of time, and you are one of the first 10 people to do so.
I'm exaggerating. But it's pretty ridiculous.

Why should I support a business that it seems is almost actively trying to exclude me?

I can go buy a clone mod almost anywhere at anytime. All the time.
I can buy an Authentic if the planets line up right, I have 200 bucks to spend, and I'm one of the lucky 300 people to catch it before it sells out 3 minutes later.

Someday, someone in the US will figure this out and make a mod, or an RDA, or any "Authentic" vaping product, price it competitively, and manufacture an appropriate quantity to meet demand.

Someday.

 

[young gotti]

i will only buy clones from here on out...i don't care if it offends ppl because it offends me that these modders think their metal tubes are worth over $100-$200, i don't think they are so i won't support you...nor do i think it's fair to charge ppl and say you put your blood, sweat, and tears into making them....get real, you grabbed a tube in your garage and got to work, probably in your underwear

as a kid and teenager I used to ride BMX, everyone always wanted bikes that were hand welded by real riders and not the big companies that mass produced products.....you know the difference? the rider owned companies charged similar prices to the big named companies that were pumpeing out 10x the product

i take pride in having ppl comment on my set up and thinking it cost over $100 and then telling them it's about $40, i actually wrote a blog about this as well