"Clones" are actually the REAL THING

[Jayvaps]

Oh, but you are. By previously stating that a Nemesis copy has faked the status of the real one, you're saying that your $30 china counterfeit has the same (superficial) status as an authentic $200 original. I think if someone spends $200 on a Nemesis, they have a right to be proud of their investment. Just because you own a fake doesn't mean you can fake the status and pride of an original. All this morality discussion aside, I think most would agree that's bollocks in and of itself.

I guess you missed the part where I flat out tell people it is a knock off. huh?

What status am I faking then? The status of someone that buys a knockoff? Again, I dont care. I wanted to try out a mech mod, and bought this one.

My most expensive mod so far is a Cronus, which was 230 bucks when it first came out. I love it dearly. Everything about it is perfect, in my opinion. If someone with a clone came along (and I am hearing rumors of a 1:1 copy), I'd be kinda ...... if someone claimed their copy was just as good as my authentic one, or that I shouldn't have a bit of pride for owning a real one.

Why would you care if someone else thought their budget mod was just as good? Are you so concerned with what other people think? If they think they got a bargin, but you think you got the quality, arent both of you 'winning'?

Have your pride. No one is claiming you cant, I dont care. But dont judge other people's morality!

If a scientist were to clone you... who would you believe is better? If your clone worked for less money, or was cheaper to feed, etc... who would your boss or spouse pick? Sometimes it's just about what was created first.

lol. logical fallacy.

 

[Richard75]

I guess you missed the part where I flat out tell people it is a knock off. huh?

What status am I faking then? The status of someone that buys a knockoff? Again, I dont care. I wanted to try out a mech mod, and bought this one.

I was referring to this statement:

You buy these mods as a status symbol, and thus are ...... that others can 'fake' the same 'status' that you have.

Why would you care if someone else thought their budget mod was just as good? Are you so concerned with what other people think? If they think they got a bargin, but you think you got the quality, arent both of you 'winning'?

Have your pride. No one is claiming you cant, I dont care. But dont judge other people's morality!

I'm not concerned with what people think about me, I care about respect for the brains behind what their clone is cloning. By saying the clone is just as good implies the real deal is worthless, so why buy it? If you're going to buy a clone regardless of the morality issue, at least have some respect for the original and it's creator.

lol. logical fallacy.

How is that a logical fallacy? It's a very simple, legitimate question. Would you believe you're better than your exact, 1:1 clone that costs less money to support?

 

[Dannyboy5691]

Nice guitar. You don't mind if I "borrow" all your music and use it to make a living? I'm just double dipping. I'm OK with that. In fact, I appreciate it. Thanks!

I criticize such comments only because there are perfectly good cheap mods that do not steal from the designs of others, and in fact have their own innovative design and aesthetic. No excuse for supporting thieves with so many good, reliable devices in the $40-$80 range out there.

Are you actually comparing the designing of a mech to writing music? Paganini is rolling over in his grave right now. *Facepalm* Smh...

 

[Jayvaps]

Yes Richard. I was not talking about me personally though. I freely offer up the fact that my mod is a knock off to anyone even slightly curious about what is in my hands. I dont care.

But arent you the one who said that you personally have 'earned your right' to buy a clone? What a load of crud. If clones are 'immoral', there is no justification for it. You do not get to 'earn the right' to not be immoral when someone else buying the exact same thing is 'immoral' in your eyes.

Enough of this bullarky.

 

[Dannyboy5691]

I'm not concerned with what people think about me, I care about respect for the brains behind what their clone is cloning. By saying the clone is just as good implies the real deal is worthless, so why buy it? If you're going to buy a clone regardless of the morality issue, at least have some respect for the original and it's creator.

Please explain how saying the clone is as good as your original makes the original worthless. It is obvious that you're concerned about what people think otherwise you wouldn't care if someone believed that their clone was as good as your original.

 

[Rule62]

Good grief! This is getting as good as the Provari fights.

 

[donnah]

Clone is one thing, but when they put the company logo and name on it to pass it off as authentic that is just wrong, I wouldn't have a problem with them just making a budget mod with out the name and logo but when they do that crosses the line

I agree... I have a russian 91% which is called a clone, but to me, it's no more of a clone than the Zap or DID.. they both took the concept from raidy. I'm seeing chi-yous and GGs in the classys for below retail and they're not moving. It makes me wonder if all the inexpensive clones or knockoffs are taking the value away from the originals.

Putting the logo and even the signature on a device is just plain wrong. I'd hate the be the owner of the real caravela #123 since that seems to be the "serial number" that the counterfeits are using.

 

[Dannyboy5691]

That logo on that piece of steel? That's someone's property. It belongs to someone other than you. If someone broke into your house to take something that belonged to you, you would use that Ruger to shoot them.

Some of those features on the clones and copies? Those are patented features. They are the intellectual property of another person. They do not belong to everybody, they do not belong to the cloner, they do not belong to you, they belong only to that person. Using them without permission or licensing is illegal. Ignore the fact that those holding the patents cannot afford to assert their own rights because it would cost them millions in legal fees to recover tens of thousands in restitution.

Really? The logo is someone's property? Oh yeah, mojo's logo was stolen from a Korean soccer team, sure fires King logo was was taken from a public domain website. There's pics of Leonardo Dicaprio wearing a shirt with the logo on it which was taken long before the King mod came out. But you would have others believe that the designers actually own these logos? So who's the thief? I suggest that you perform some research before you make such a statement again and end up looking foolish.

 

[Camaroboi13]

Don't forget the Nemesis, by Anne Stokes either... Not only did Mr. Kalafan steal the logo, he also stole the name as well. So who's the real copycat here?

 

[ZoltanZee]

Hello ,Prometheus72 can you please tell us the difference personally I would love to know or hear from someone who know the difference

 

[Dannyboy5691]

The NYPD would take issue with your views, as they applied handcuffs. When they raided Chinatown to shut down all the stores selling fakes, sellers and buyers were nabbed in the sting operations.

More misinformation. The raids and arrests happened because counterfeit items were brought into the country illegally and were being sold illegally. Clones are not brought into the country illegally and are being sold legally by a number of shops through out the country. NYPD can't do anything about any shop selling clones, nor can they confiscate them. Please stop while you're behind, as some people may become dumber by reading your posts.

 

[D1RGE.EXE]

A funny comparison here from my time in the fabric/fashion industry:

Fashion debuts from designer runways, then trickle out as "genuine" articles to boutique shops. $1000 t-shirts, $5k blouses, etc. Limited quantity, available to the few. If they prove to be "hot" then they go on. These designs and fabrics are also sold (with slight deviations) to lower level companies that use either the fabric or the design of the boutique item and send them to China, Indonesia, India, wherever. They are then produced in the thousands, and appear as that spring's new line at Target, WalMart, JC Penny etc. Some of these designs are closer to the originals than others, and sometimes legal action is required to satisfy copyright disputes on either fabric or designs.

I guess I'm trying to demonstrate a few points here. A) If you want the First, the Premiere, the ORIGINAL then you pay. Drastically more. It's the way things work. B) taking something that is good and making something like it is so common, that if you decided to really take that high and mighty route, then please by all means don't stop at just your vaping. Better look at your Timex, your wallet, your clothes and dishes and furniture, pretty much 99% of what ANYONE buys is an imitation of sorts, its just a gray scale of how close its copied....which brings the third point. C) if the original designer has enough issue against some foreign corporation stealing their design, there IS something they can do, and that is bring it up in international court. If they patented their design. If they have the time. And the money to wait. And the lawyer that can navigate the laws. It may not be easy, but thats just how you deal with it, like it or not.

Fact of the matter is, if we all held out for original Caravelas and GGs, this forum would be a heck of a lot smaller. There is no way Pedro can satisfy everyone that wants his beautiful mod, nor can they go through the process. It logistically makes no sense whatsoever. Clones, at a lower quality and price point, will always exist and have their place just as original designs will too. Calling others immoral, theives, sinners and more for buying whats available and within their price range is completely jumping the shark.

 

[jayD]

Calling others immoral, theives, sinners and more for buying whats available and within their price range is completely jumping the shark.

So true, excuse me while I purchase a newborn baby on the blackmarket, because it's all I can afford.

 

[Jayvaps]

So true, excuse me while I purchase a newborn baby on the blackmarket, because it's all I can afford.

It is sooo much cheaper just to make one. A cheap bottle of wine can often do the trick.

 

[440BB]

How long will people spend large amounts on the newest "special" tube mod, which is a slight variation on existing products, with different engraving or finishes? Greed drives these imitators, both pricey and cheap. Once a few modders realized there were people willing to pay big prices for perceived exclusivity, a stream of "special" devices appeared over the last year.

I find it amusing that people spend time arguing that their "original" XYZ derivative tube isn't a copy. Unless it is a real innovation, it's just $10 - 20 of material, with a slight variation. About as special as a nicer finish and serial number on a stainless steel spoon. Printing a COA takes a moment and costs a few cents.

The original innovative devices will remain highly regarded and premium priced, long after this clone frenzy dies down. The dozens, if not hundreds, of johnny come lately "limited" devices, which are derivative of the real inventions, will decline in value to what they are really worth to vapers and collectors. To most of us, these "limited" pretenders will be worth only a little more than their clones.

 

[edyle]

I agree... I have a russian 91% which is called a clone, but to me, it's no more of a clone than the Zap or DID.. they both took the concept from raidy. I'm seeing chi-yous and GGs in the classys for below retail and they're not moving. It makes me wonder if all the inexpensive clones or knockoffs are taking the value away from the originals.

Putting the logo and even the signature on a device is just plain wrong. I'd hate the be the owner of the real caravela #123 since that seems to be the "serial number" that the counterfeits are using.

LOGO!!

That's something different.
The thread topic is about CLONE.

When you put a false registered trademark on a clone, that crosses the line into FRAUD.

 

[seahawkin]

Meh I do both, makes me bi I guess. I just care it works and it is quality. I will admit that I have been saving for months for a Zenesis 2 - Brevis-Gun Metal Finish, cause the dude that makes em is just an artisan in my opinion.

Whatever one can do to stay off the cigs. I am lucky I can choose.

 

[Jawden]

Good grief! This is getting as good as the Provari fights.

I guess I spoke too soon a few days ago when I said Its nice to see a friendly debate...and look what happens. Hahahaha. Maybe I jinxed it?



Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[GunArm]

This whole thing is an interesting idea. Except you forget that the whole reason clones are available at all (china's lack of intellectual property protection) makes it basically impossible to "license out" your design to those manufacturers.

 

[jarreddizzle]

TL;DR...
I read from pg 1-10 and said "skip"... (which is funny in regards to my forum sig...)
So here are my thoughts...
-China, make things that look similar, BUT don't use the logos and serial numbers made by hard working and original innovators. Thats not right, that is when you go from clone to counterfeit.

-USA, lets pool together a bunch of $ and replicate that one online site which replicates/clones/counterfeits things and just make it for fun/trolls and make no profit just thwart their business. <- A joke, not serious, but if someone does it I'll be the first to purchase from you.

I'm not saying I never bought clones, I have 2. One is/was a "brass sentinel" but the delrin came off the top along with the firing pins = no usability. The other was supposed to be a "private v2" with silver plated contacts, to which the whole mod does not work, tried it with all of my batteries from 18350-1650 size, spanning 3 brands, nothing works. Garbage.
Never had a problem with all of my other mods which are legit, even my low-end legit mods have worked better.