five pawns has been removing all questions posted on their Facebook page about the Cloud 9 lab report. It's not like they have not had more than ample time to work on a response.
Cloud9vaping pulls Five Pawns and other liquids from the shelf after testing.
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I just started vaping about two weeks ago and I keep scratching my head as to all these e-juice problems... Is it best to just make your own e-juice? Is it best to just vape 100% VG nothing added? You look up one flavor its ok on one site and bad on another. The list of good and bad is from 2012 or 2013... I read the Flavors with color is bad, Flavors with Creams or Caramel, Flovors with sucrolose and sweetners are bad. So I am thinking the best bet is just 100% VG is the best.
Nicoticket is reformulating several of their liquids due to AP as well. Everything I like are the bad ones 
I don't think you should "flip out."
Safe is a relative term when it comes to vaping, i.e. it is harm reduction and better than smoking. Nobody has said it is totally "safe".
BUT if you WANT to vape as safely as possible, based on what we know, ap and da appear to represent an increased risk, and one that is avoidable, since those components don't HAVE to be in ejuice.
I will say, IMHO, that if you want to vape as safely as possible, then I would consider moving in the direction of less flavoring and/or no diketones.
The only thing that bothers me about this whole diketone thing is that I would like to know if its in my juice and if it is (or isn't) so I want to see a test. And, I guess I don't get the thing about being furtive about it, or lying about it?
If any eliquid maker is not happy with their test results, they can use flavorings that have specifically been reformulated to take out the diketones. (and the butryric acid, acetoins, dyes or whatever else they don't want in *their* juice). And obviously, they need to check the calibration on their dispensing equipment, test once a week random bottles leaving the facility for nicotine levels, etc. (though I consider that part of regular maintenance by ANY ejuice mixer).
5P may very well reformulate it so you may be able to enjoy it (although that mouth feel that you get with AP is going to be missing.)
Only juice I ever dumped was that one with titanium oxide in it, because IMHO, that component was actually poisonous.
Nicoticket is reformulating several of their liquids due to AP as well. Everything I like are the bad ones
Again, that is the acetyl proprianol. It gives that mouth feel that is common in sweet creamy custardy type vapes that people like. My only suggestion with that is either accept the risk, or start grooming your taste buds toward something else. Its like anything, at first you miss it, then you get used to vaping other things.
I went thru this when I got off gluten. My arthritis is so much better, even though I'm not celiac person. At first I really missed bread. But not enough to end up in a wheelchair
Lifestyle changes are always challenging. This vaping thing is sort of the same thing in many ways. Stay flexible.
Thanks for posting this information. I have been away from the forums for a bit and had no idea about these two harmful chemicals in juices. Time to do some research!
Thanks racehorse for the kind words. But realistically… Where should I go from here?
Can I at least finish my last bottle of fp queenside without flushing it? And then the next question is… Should I look at the vapor shark list of things that are ap and da free, or at least not in that red zone… And go from there and try to find some new flavors?
Is there a more comprehensive list of juices that are DA and AP free??
Thx again for your advice..
We've been keeping this topic going for a while now:
Diketones-free vendors | E-Cigarette Forum
I suggest you email your other suppliers, or ask for testing results, etc. if you can't find DA and AP free juices, and IF that is how you decide to vape.
Before I started DIY I'm quite sure I vaped my share of AP and such, since we didn't know it was in there. Since I"m budget conscious, I would probably dilute my 5P juices down a bit and vape them, as it's not like it's going to kill you or anything. I think everything is CUMULATIVE. It's how long, how much, over a lifetime that gets us into trouble.
As we know, it's not like smokers get COPD in 3-4 years. The damage may start then, but it takes 10+ and sometimes 40+ years to show up.
I practice harm reduction. That's all. Vaping is harm reduction.....safer vaping is even better harm reduction. There is no downside to safer vaping, if you can do it.
If you can't then I still suggest vaping and not smoking.
To me this is all very simple.
The forum owner said a while back in the Dr. F. topic last year that if somebody didn't vape and continued to smoke because they HAD to have diketones it would be a tragedy. And I agree. I would tell that person to vape whatever they needed to vape to get off cigs.The thing is that now we do have alternatives. You can get creamy sweet dessert vapes and such that don't have diketones, etc.
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I'll wait for Five Pawns to make a statement. Curious how cloud 9 in the UK has test results and no info I can find on who did the tests. In the mean time I'll keep enjoying my Five Pawns.
I would certainly finish any juice I had. I agree its likely a cumulative effect that develops over years or decades, if its even enough exposure to be a risk. We really don't know. And cigarettes may have more diketones ??
On their site it says: 'The actual lab certificates are available on request'. I understand they informed 5 Pawns on May 5th of the results. They took the stock back & were willing to discuss on the phone but Cloud 9 wanted all correspondence to be in writing and heard nothing more. There is more info on this thread:
5 Pawns delisted by Cloud 9 after tests show record levels of Diacetyl
where the owner is participating. Cloud 9 is a very reputable company in the UK and I am sure they will respond to any questions.
5 Pawns delisted by Cloud 9 after tests show record levels of Diacetyl
where the owner is participating. Cloud 9 is a very reputable company in the UK and I am sure they will respond to any questions.
This tells me everything I need to know. 5P obviously knows their juices are chock-full of AP and don't want anything that can be seen by the public as them admitting it in writing.
Sent them a email this morning. Nothing back so far.
I Imagine their e-Mail Inbox is probably Stuffed to the point of Exploding.
LOL
It Might take a tad Longer than Usual to get a Reply.
BTW - Not sure if you have seen this or not?
Our liquid testing protocol - Blog - Cloud 9 Vaping
It doesn't Say what lab is Actually used to do Testing. But it does have Info on Testing Protocols.
Cloud9 informed them of the results back on May 5th, 2015.
C9 didn't hear a peep so ....... they delisted them on June 28th, 2015.
and they wrote this on a U.K. vaping forum :
Neither Five Pawns or their distributor would make any statement in writing. They did want to discuss the results by phone, but we felt it was essential to keep a clear record of all comms in writing and so the return happened, and we didn't hear any more from either party about these results.
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