Cold maceration of tobacco

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billherbst

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I stuffed 22gr (by weight) into a freezer jam canning jar, not the short one but next size up.
Cut up whole leaf organic VFC.
Was trying to get 1 oz (28gr) to fit.
Didn't seem to be able to get much PG into the jar, (certainly not 120ml).
Are you guys using the 1 oz by volume, or weighing it?
Seem to have way more tobacco than liquid in the jar.

When I used half an ounce of tobacco in my macerations, I weighed the tobacco before putting it in the jar. Since I generally order the pipe and RYO tobacco blends as one-ounce bulk samplers, the baggies containing the unused half-ounces began to add up over time. A couple months ago, I began using the full ounce in each maceration, but I no longer weigh it. I just dump the whole baggie into the empty maceration jar, then pour in 120-150ml of PG and VG in whatever ratio strikes my fancy. With cigars, I always use the entire cigar for a maceration. I weighed my first batch of five cigars, but I no longer weigh them.
 

Bunnykiller

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Yes it would tremendously but also tremendously expensive at the volumes we need.

hmmmm I have an old Router....28,000 rpm... :)

now to do the math.... will it hold up to the forces.... BHUHAHahahaaaa !!

yup Im a mad scientist at heart too

for example... my avitar pic is a tesla coil I made... the streamers exuding from it go to the ground and the toroid on top is 9' above ground, the grey part holding the toroid on top of the secondary coil ( red part) is a 5 gallon bucket ( to give you some idea of size scale)

I need to post a full sized pic :)
 
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regal55

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hmmmm I have an old Router....28,000 rpm... :)

now to do the math.... will it hold up to the forces.... BHUHAHahahaaaa !!

yup Im a mad scientist at heart too

for example... my avitar pic is a tesla coil I made... the streamers exuding from it go to the ground and the toroid on top is 9' above ground, the grey part holding the toroid on top of the secondary coil ( red part) is a 5 gallon bucket ( to give you some idea of size scale)

I need to post a full sized pic :)


I think a centrifuge for our need would require a forklift to setup.
 

billherbst

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Here’s my initial report of the results of my PGA-extraction experiment with two pipe tobacco blends I’d previously extracted---Hearth & Home Magnum Opus and Milan Sultan’s Blend. A later report may follow if steeping of either the extracts or NET liquids made from them alters the results.

I used exactly the same tobaccos for my cold extraction with PGA and my earlier PG/VG heat-assisted extraction. Literally, the tobacco for each of the respective pairs of extractions was from the same one-ounce sample that I ordered online---I started with 1/2 ounce of the tobacco both times.

The new macerations used about 50ml of Everclear (pure grain alcohol, 180-proof) to cover the tobaccos in each jar. Then the sealed jars sat on my kitchen windowsill for five days after which I filtered out the solids and particulates using my French Press single-pass dual-stage wire mesh/5-micron poly felt method. I poured the remaining solvent---which in both cases was a light caramel color---into a pan that I heated to about 130° on the stovetop to evaporate 80% of the alcohol. That was accomplished for each extract after about 15 minutes. What was left was about 10ml of extract “concentrate.” I poured into the pan 40ml of PG and stirred/scraped the stainless steel pan to assure thorough mixing.

Surprisingly, the mixed liquid was not entirely uniform and smooth. Tiny globs of darker stuff remained. From what I could tell, I think these were oil droplets rather than cellulose particulates. There’s a chance that they were concentrated globules of flavor, but I didn’t want them in the extract, so I got out my trusty one-cup Melitta cone filter, slapped in a paper coffee filter, poured in the extract, globules and all, and let gravity do its job. After 20 minutes, I had a glass with about 45ml of medium-caramel-colored extract. The Magnum Opus extract is a shade or two darker than the Sultan’s Blend. Each extract is slightly aromatic with a scent that's consistent with its flavor. Both tobaccos are English blends with a complex mix of tobaccos (rather than being Latakia-heavy).

I got out my 30ml bottle of Sultan’s Blend NET made from the PG/VG heat-assisted maceration I did back in November 2013, nine months ago. That bottle of juice was made using 15% extract, 22mg nic, in a 40pg/60vg base, and is quite dark. I was still using doubled paper coffee filters at that point, and the NET liquid is a moderate gunker, but quite tasty. Then I made up a 3ml bottle of the new Sultan’s Blend, using 26% extract, 12mg nic, with an overall base blend of 30pg/70vg. I tried 15% extract initially, but the flavor wasn’t strong enough, so I added drops until I was happy with the flavor, which was at 26%. Even at that high extract percentage, however, the color of the mixed juice remains a pale caramel transparency.

Next, I set up a drip test with two VAMOs set to 9 watts using JoyeTech 2.3 ohm 510 atties, to compare the two juices head-to-head.

Obviously, this cage match leaves something to be desired in terms of scientific objectivity---I’m not only comparing juices made from different extraction methods, but also divergent extract percentages (26% versus 15%), unequal nic strengths (12mg versus 22mg), and extremely different ages (fresh versus nine months old). That’s OK, though. We do the best we can with what we’ve got.

Although the two juices were made from identical tobacco and share the same basic flavor profile, both the taste and the overall vaping experience are very different.

The fresh PGA-based cold extract juice is lighter. I don’t mean that it has less flavor, but that the flavor comes through with a lightness and buoyancy. The nine-month-old PG/VG-based heat extract juice is decidedly more blunt and compressed in flavor, with less range---more bass notes and not nearly as much treble. I like the new juice better, but I’m not sure if that’s a fair comparison, given the advancing age of the older juice, which may be past its prime.

I also like the fact that the new NET juices are light-colored, as are most of my recent extraction batches filtered with the 5-micron French Press method. All my 2013 macerations are darker and obviously gunkier in their effects on coils/wicks. For reasons I don’t understand, re-filtering my older extracts with the 5-micron French Press doesn’t seem to clarify them much or lighten up their color. I tried re-filtering one or two, then stopped, because it was a waste of time and about 1/4 of the extract.

I haven’t yet made up a juice sample from the new Magnum Opus, so the head-to-head comparison with that tobacco might be different. If so, I’ll post about it later.

So far, I’d say that the PGA experiment is a success, all things considered. Will I do more PGA-based cold macerations? Right now, I’d say yes. PGA macerations are less efficient, with much lower yields (If Sultan's Blend is a representative example, then PGA extract makes only 1/4 as much mixed juice as similar PG/VG heat-assisted macerations). Also, the cost per ml of juice is much higher with PGA extractions. It’s still relatively inexpensive and easily affordable, however, and I sure do like the lovely flavor the Sultan’s Blend PGA-maceration produced, even though having to filter twice was a pain.

I hesitate to draw too many firm conclusions from this experiment, for all the obvious reasons. I’ll need more data and further experience to make those judgments. I’ll probably try a couple of Rocky Patel cigars with PGA-based cold maceration next.
 

billherbst

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I found refiltering the PGA concentrate works pretty well to remove the "oil balls"... coffie filters are my choice for it... once it has been filtered, then the concentrate is added to VG, with no or minimal oils.

I didn't re-filter until after I "rehydrated" the evaporated/reduced extract with PG. Following the evaporation, I had only 10mls of PGA solvent remaining, and I feared that a paper coffee filter would absorb too much of that precious concentrate. So, I added 40ml of PG to make 50ml total, then ran that through the coffee filter. Presto! No oil balls in the finished extract. (I hope that's a good thing, and yes, I did lose about 5ml of liquid to absorption into the paper coffee filter.)
 

billherbst

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Report #2 for the Magnum Opus.

This is the same report (almost) as the Sultan's Blend, except for the last step---my reaction.

While the flavor of the Magnum Opus NET juice made from PGA-based extraction has an "airy," open quality that parallels the Sultan's Blend PGA, the difference here is that I like the flavor of the nine-month-old Magnum Opus made from PG/VG heat-assisted extract significantly more. Sultan's Blend seems to benefit from the flavor and vaping experience being uplifted in a sort of gentle lilt, but the Magnum Opus is tastier to my palate with the impact maximized through a more intense and earthy focus.

Hmmm, now we're one for two. Batting .500.

Again, I doubt that any reliable conclusions can be drawn from my "experiments." The assumption that PGA-based macerations might produce better (meaning tastier and more satisfying) NET juices with some tobaccos, while PG/VG heat-assisted macerations are better-suted for other tobaccos leaves us nowhere. I'm sure as hell not doing two different macerations for each retail tobacco I extract.

I think we can safely say that both methods work to produce natural tobacco extract, and this just might inspire me to try a six-week slow-steep cold maceration with PG. Maybe.
 

Bunnykiller

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well at least we know now that PGA extracting does create a "cleaner" end product, alot less likely to gunk up coils/wicks than a VG soaked extract. But there is one more thing I was wondering about.... will PGA breakdown the paper coffie filter, loosen up binders etc in the paper?
I plan on stacking several paper filters and running 2-3 oz of PGA thru them a few times and then evaporate to see if anything shows up...
the last batch I reduced had some "soft fluffy" looking material in the bottom of the cup after the first filtering, couldnt identify it for sure as to what it was but it seemed "fiberous"...
 
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