Cold maceration of tobacco

[Maurice Pudlo]

Whats the theory behind alcohole extraction. I mean PG seems a much stronger solvent. Is this an attempt to create a cleaner burning NET?

In my situation, having already completed a month long room temperature extraction in PG, the secondary vodka extraction is more of a final wash of the tobacco used in the PG soak method. The vodka certainly has removed a majority of the PG that I was unable to remove via pressing.

I feel confident at this point that in order to extract the very highest percentage of usable extract the following steps should be considered.

1) Reduce tobacco size by chopping (10-16 mesh seems sufficient).
2) Soak tobacco in PG, VG, or PGA the quantity must be sufficient to completely cover the fully saturated tobacco for 30 days.
3) Remove liquids from tobacco by pressing.
4) Soak the pressed tobacco in PGA for (4 hours PG and VG method), (I'm not sure for the PGA method).
5) Remove PGA wash from tobacco by pressing.
6) Filter liquids to your desired level of clarity (do not mix the PG/VG extract with the PGA wash at this time).
7) Reduce PGA wash liquid level to 10% of its original volume by heating to 140degF.
8) Combine extract and reduced PGA wash.

The PGA soak and wash steps are purely optional, and to some extent may be less effective if your method of pressing the PG/VG soaked tobacco is exceptionally more efficient than mine. In my experience the additional PGA soak and wash were highly effective in removing additional usable extract.

It should go without saying that the more uniform your methods are the more uniform your results will be. By way of example in step 1) you are chopping the tobacco product into smaller particles, passing your chopped tobacco through a wire colander will sort the larger sizes out that need more chopping. This will give you a more uniform product on the back end of the project.

Maurice

 

[regal55]

johni,

I use heat in making my natural tobacco extracts, but I don't "cook" them. My heat-assisted extractions are done using a big pasta pot filled with water into which I place the sealed jars containing macerated suspensions (1 oz. tobacco in 150mls of 60/40 PG/VG). I do four at a time and don't cover the jars entirely with water---they're only about 2/3 submerged. I keep the heat on the burner at the lowest setting, so that the water is slightly steamy, but less hot than a simmer and with no bubbling, so that the water is very still. I haven't checked with a thermometer, but I'd guess the temperature of the water to be somewhere around 180°. If the jars begin to "jiggle" a bit, I take that as a sign that the heat is too high and turn off the burner for 20 minutes or so.

I do six hours with heat on, then six off, and repeat that cycle four times over two days, then filter.

I don't stir or shake the macerations, because---as you wrote---I don't want to inadvertently increase the amount of tiny particulates. All in all, my process is very gentle.

I've read elsewhere that 100% PG is best for cold maceration, and that makes sense to me.

Maybe sometime I'll do a cold-process and a heat-assisted maceration of the same tobacco to see what the differences are in the taste of the finished extract and subsequent DIY NET juice. So far, I haven't had the patience to do any cold macerations. I started two of them, but they never made it to the two-week mark, much less the one month I'd originally intended. I kept opening the cupboard and looking at them every couple days, but after two weeks, the liquid had hardly darkened at all, so I bagged it and finished the extractions by adding some VG and using my heat-assisted method.

Try 110f it seems to be the sweet spot for me.

 

[Str8vision]

After an earlier discussion with BunnyKiller, I decided to process several trial batches of pipe tobaccos using PGA as the solvent. Used just enough PGA to saturate and cover the tobacco, sealed the glass containers and let them sit at room temperature (75F -85F), for 72 hours. Filtered 40mls of extract single pass using 5 microns singed poly filter felt and it flowed straight through without pressure or vacuum in mere seconds. Allowed the filtered extract to sit in an open (un-covered), canning jar warmed to 110f for several hours until aprox 80% - 90% of the PGA had evaporated off and then re-filtered. Added 5ml PG to the condensed PGA extract and blended well. The 10ml of "condensed" PG/PGA extract is quite potent and required only a few drops for a 4ml juice sample. The flavor is equal to my 6 week cold PG extraction and actually better than my heat assisted 96 hour extraction of the same tobacco (Cornell & Diehl's Billy Budd). The big difference is in color/clarity of the mixed juice. The mixed PGA net is a see-through golden color whereas the PG net is the color and opacity of a glass of Coke. I have yet to finish my first tankful in a Kayfun so am unsure about the gunk factor at this point but after half a tank the flavor intensity has not declined which is a notable improvement. Think I might play around with PGA macerations for a time and see what I can do. A larger extraction (120ml), using Hearth & Home's Marquee Magnum O and a change-up to the filtering process/procedures will be my next endeavor.

 

[johni]

After an earlier discussion with BunnyKiller, I decided to process several trial batches of pipe tobaccos using PGA as the solvent. Used just enough PGA to saturate and cover the tobacco, sealed the glass containers and let them sit at room temperature (75F -85F), for 72 hours. Filtered 40mls of extract single pass using 5 microns singed poly filter felt and it flowed straight through without pressure or vacuum in mere seconds. Allowed the filtered extract to sit in an open (un-covered), canning jar warmed to 110f for several hours until aprox 80% - 90% of the PGA had evaporated off and then re-filtered. Added 5ml PG to the condensed PGA extract and blended well. The 10ml of "condensed" PG/PGA extract is quite potent and required only a few drops for a 4ml juice sample. The flavor is equal to my 6 week cold PG extraction and actually better than my heat assisted 96 hour extraction of the same tobacco (Cornell & Diehl's Billy Budd). The big difference is in color/clarity of the mixed juice. The mixed PGA net is a see-through golden color whereas the PG net is the color and opacity of a glass of Coke. I have yet to finish my first tankful in a Kayfun so am unsure about the gunk factor at this point but after half a tank the flavor intensity has not declined which is a notable improvement. Think I might play around with PGA macerations for a time and see what I can do. A larger extraction (120ml), using Hearth & Home's Marquee Magnum O and a change-up to the filtering process/procedures will be my next endeavor.

Sounds like you're getting that process down. I'd be interested in swapping a couple of extracts if you're interested.

 

[Str8vision]

Sounds like you're getting that process down. I'd be interested in swapping a couple of extracts if you're interested.

I have only ran a few "test" batches using PGA as the solvent and used an old "stout" tobacco pipe blend for the experiment. Cornell & Diehl's Billy Budd has Cornell & Diehl's "unique" casing flavor and an ample dose of cigar leaf in the mix, it's NOT for the faint of heart. I chose it for my PGA experiments because I consider it "expendable". Next week I intend on processing several larger PGA batches and this time around will use good tobacco blends. Once they are finished I will gladly send samples your way for consideration/evaluation. The results of this test were positive enough (so far), that I intend to shift attention/focus away from heat assisted macerations entirely at least for the foreseeable future. However, several critical questions remain; At what concentration/strength should the finished PGA extract be produced/kept; Will the "condensed" PGA extract retain it's vibrant flavor/intensity over time; Can the PGA be totally evaporated before blending in PG or VG; and etc... Also PGA extractions present a few new problems to the NET equation. One is that it extracts essential oils from the tobacco that are not water soluble. Fortunately, one of singed poly filter felt's properties is that it actually absorbs/retains much of the oil. Before I process the next PGA macerations I will construct a new filtering system just for PGA based extractions. Even so, I'm not yet sold on using PGA for tobacco flavor extraction mainly because long term room temperature PG/VG macerations produce solid reliable results. But I will say that short term room temperature PGA macerations may hold considerable promise for those with little patience. I am also intrigued by the intensity and distinct nuances of the flavor(s) and hope they don't fade over time like many of my heat assisted PG extracts have. The next few months of experimentation should expose PGA's potential or lack thereof, either way it will be fun.

 

[billherbst]

After an earlier discussion with BunnyKiller, I decided to process several trial batches of pipe tobaccos using PGA as the solvent. Used just enough PGA to saturate and cover the tobacco, sealed the glass containers and let them sit at room temperature (75F -85F), for 72 hours. Filtered 40mls of extract single pass using 5 microns singed poly filter felt and it flowed straight through without pressure or vacuum in mere seconds. Allowed the filtered extract to sit in an open (un-covered), canning jar warmed to 110f for several hours until aprox 80% - 90% of the PGA had evaporated off and then re-filtered. Added 5ml PG to the condensed PGA extract and blended well. The 10ml of "condensed" PG/PGA extract is quite potent and required only a few drops for a 4ml juice sample. The flavor is equal to my 6 week cold PG extraction and actually better than my heat assisted 96 hour extraction of the same tobacco (Cornell & Diehl's Billy Budd). The big difference is in color/clarity of the mixed juice. The mixed PGA net is a see-through golden color whereas the PG net is the color and opacity of a glass of Coke. I have yet to finish my first tankful in a Kayfun so am unsure about the gunk factor at this point but after half a tank the flavor intensity has not declined which is a notable improvement. Think I might play around with PGA macerations for a time and see what I can do. A larger extraction (120ml), using Hearth & Home's Marquee Magnum O and a change-up to the filtering process/procedures will be my next endeavor.

Interesting. Enough so that I drove to the liquor store today and plunked down 16 bucks for a 750ml bottle of Everclear. I considered Vodka as a cheaper alternative but couldn't find any stronger than 100-proof, so I bit the bullet and paid the extra for the industrial-strength 190-proof PGA.

I now have two sealed maceration jars sitting on my kitchen window sill. They contain the remaining half-ounce batches of two pipe tobacco blends I've extracted already---Milan Sultan's Blend in September 2013 and Hearth & Home Magnum Opus in November 2013. I used about 50ml of Everclear to cover the half-ounce of tobacco in each maceration. Although I have 16 new pipe tobaccos and cigars waiting for extraction, I want to be able to compare these PGA/cold-maceration/evaporation/PG-blend NET extracts with my earlier heat-assisted PG/VG blend NET extractions using identical tobaccos to assess the relative strength, flavor, and performance.

My intention is to do a four-day (96-hour) "sun-tea" room-temp steep, then filter the solvents with my 5-micron French Press, reduce both through a low-heat water-bath open-jar evaporation, and finally add PG 1:1.

Oh boy. A grand experiment!

 

[johni]

Str8, it definitely sounds promising. My guess would be that method should produce an easily filtered extract and cleaner juice.

Funny thing, I have C&D Billy Budd in a PG soak right now! I love two extractions of pipe blends with Maduro in them (Hearth and Home Virginia Spice and Stogie) and actually have high hopes for Billy Budd.

 

[Str8vision]

Interesting. Enough so that I drove to the liquor store today and plunked down 16 bucks for a 750ml bottle of Everclear. I considered Vodka as a cheaper alternative but couldn't find any stronger than 100-proof, so I bit the bullet and paid the extra for the industrial-strength 190-proof PGA.

I now have two sealed maceration jars sitting on my kitchen window sill. They contain the remaining half-ounce batches of two pipe tobacco blends I've extracted already---Milan Sultan's Blend in September 2013 and Hearth & Home Magnum Opus in November 2013. I used about 50ml of Everclear to cover the half-ounce of tobacco in each maceration. Although I have 16 new pipe tobaccos and cigars waiting for extraction, I want to be able to compare these PGA/cold-maceration/evaporation/PG-blend NET extracts with my earlier heat-assisted PG/VG blend NET extractions using identical tobaccos to assess the relative strength, flavor, and performance.

My intention is to do a four-day (96-hour) "sun-tea" room-temp steep, then filter the solvents with my 5-micron French Press, reduce both through a low-heat water-bath open-jar evaporation, and finally add PG 1:1.

Oh boy. A grand experiment!

Everclear is what I bought although I opted for a small bottle for the initial experiment as I wasn't overly optimistic about the outcome. When you filter, the plunger on your press will only be useful for squeezing the tobacco pulp as all the liquid will have already ran through the filter, it's that fast. The oil extracted from the tobacco will stick in the poly felt and won't rinse out, I had to boil mine clean. The second filtering (after condensing the PGA via evaporation and before blending with PG/VG), caught more of the oil than did the initial pass but still not all of it. I didn't "press" the PGA saturated filter but instead left it wet as to not push any of the retained/trapped oil through. Don't rightfully know if it would have but opted not to find out. I quickly abandoned my PG filtering setup in favor of a simple small funnel fitted with a dished/concave filter disk cut from the felt. Let me know how a four day soak turns out, mine was only three. Hope you have as much fun with it as I am.

 

[Str8vision]

Str8, it definitely sounds promising. My guess would be that method should produce an easily filtered extract and cleaner juice.

Funny thing, I have C&D Billy Budd in a PG soak right now! I love two extractions of pipe blends with Maduro in them (Hearth and Home Virginia Spice and Stogie) and actually have high hopes for Billy Budd.

Billy Bud is a stout in your face tobacco blend, I would NEVER have smoked it in a pipe but vaping is quite a different story. I mixed it with a caramel crème base and am still smoking it as I type. No steeping, just shake and vape. Tastes a lot like H1N1 but the tobacco is more out front, pronounced and distinct, the casing flavor and cigar note actually makes it very interesting. I'm 3/4 of the way through my first tank full and the flavor intensity has not diminished nor have I experienced a "gunked" coil taste. I'm assuming the cotton hasn't become saturated with solids resulting in sustained flavor intensity but don't know that for a fact. Time will tell. I've got a dozen "full" flavor pipe blends on the way including two more from Cornell & Diehl but none with cigar leaf. My latest batch of cold macerations are still a few weeks away from maturity. May need to get some cigar leaf blending tobacco just to add in as I like the flavor.

 

[Bunnykiller]

The Oil created after evaporation seems to get "mostly" filtered out via coffie filter, altho a bit does seem to seep thru into the finished product. And the oil is very non water soluable... difficult to wash off of things, definately need a detergent...
I tasted the oil residue and found it to be rather bitter. I try to make attempts to remove what oil I can to keep the bitterness from showing up in the vape...

 

[Str8vision]

The Oil created after evaporation seems to get "mostly" filtered out via coffie filter, altho a bit does seem to seep thru into the finished product. And the oil is very non water soluable... difficult to wash off of things, definately need a detergent...
I tasted the oil residue and found it to be rather bitter. I try to make attempts to remove what oil I can to keep the bitterness from showing up in the vape...

The extracted oil definitely "clings" to things but that may be the key to it's removal. The 5 micron filter felt I currently use is "fuzzy" on one side and seems to trap the oil quite effectively but not 100%. I intend to "tinker" with several filtration/separation approaches in an attempt to remedy or at least further reduce this nuisance although I haven't tasted/encountered any negative effects that could be attributed to its presence....yet.

 

[Ian444]

I'm guessing it would be possible to add PG (or VG) to the filtered PGA extract, and then evaporate all the PGA, leaving just the extract flavors in the PG (or VG). I don't know if there would be any advantage though, except for removing all the alcohol. Would there be any disadvantages?

Str8vision, why do you filter the PGA extract twice, the initial filtering then the 2nd filtering after evaporating off a large percentage of the alcohol, is it because there is additional material to filter after the evaporation stage?

I bought some PGA last weekend and have only just started experimenting with PGA as a solvent. Some tobacco arrived this week too, your posts today are timely, thanks for posting your experiences

 

[regal55]

I'm curious how PGA does better than PG/ I mean PG dissolves the markings on syringes, its pretty strong stuff. It wouldn't be readily available were it not for being used in processed fords for 100 years.

Where are you getting your PGA?

 

[MFToms59]

... The oil extracted from the tobacco will stick in the poly felt and won't rinse out, I had to boil mine clean...

The Oil created after evaporation seems to get "mostly" filtered out via coffie filter, altho a bit does seem to seep thru into the finished product. And the oil is very non water soluable... difficult to wash off of things, definately need a detergent...

The extracted oil definitely "clings" to things but that may be the key to it's removal. The 5 micron filter felt I currently use is "fuzzy" on one side and seems to trap the oil quite effectively but not 100%.

Before filtering with the 5 micron, I run mine twice through a doubled coffee filter, this helps remove a large part of the trapped oils. After the micron filtering, I flip over the filter and rinsed from the opposite side, the oil rinsed away with no problem.

 

[MFToms59]

I'm curious how PGA does better than PG/ I mean PG dissolves the markings on syringes, its pretty strong stuff. It wouldn't be readily available were it not for being used in processed fords for 100 years.

Where are you getting your PGA?

PGA or Vodka has a thinner viscosity, soaks the Medium faster and filters easily/ faster, evaporating the alcohol doesn't take much time, can be done with lower heat. You can Find PGA/ Everclear or Vodka at most liquor stores.

 

[Str8vision]

I'm guessing it would be possible to add PG (or VG) to the filtered PGA extract, and then evaporate all the PGA, leaving just the extract flavors in the PG (or VG). I don't know if there would be any advantage though, except for removing all the alcohol. Would there be any disadvantages?

Str8vision, why do you filter the PGA extract twice, the initial filtering then the 2nd filtering after evaporating off a large percentage of the alcohol, is it because there is additional material to filter after the evaporation stage?

I bought some PGA last weekend and have only just started experimenting with PGA as a solvent. Some tobacco arrived this week too, your posts today are timely, thanks for posting your experiences

Last year I experimented with alcohol based vanilla bean extracts and found that once PG or VG has been added (even very small amounts), the evaporation of alcohol slowed considerably.

While evaporating the PGA from my Tobacco extract, the container sits open and exposed to air-borne contaminants for many hours, the second filtering was originally intended to counter any contamination from that exposure. Heating the PGA to a higher temperature (140F), would have reduced the time necessary for evaporation but I intentionally avoided that level of heating for this experiment. Many of my heat assisted PG extracts have dulled or loss flavor over time whereas the cold processed ones have not.

Have fun with your efforts and share the results.

 

[Str8vision]

I'm curious how PGA does better than PG/ I mean PG dissolves the markings on syringes, its pretty strong stuff. It wouldn't be readily available were it not for being used in processed fords for 100 years.

Where are you getting your PGA?

I don't consider PGA better than PG or VG, in fact it adds to the overall cost. Where it shines is in its ability to extract flavor from the tobacco in a very short period of time "without heat". I also believe (good or bad), it extracts elements that PG/VG doesn't/won't.

I buy/use Everclear at the local liquor store, it is Pure Grain Alcohol (PGA), and says so on the bottle.

 

[Bunnykiller]

I'm guessing it would be possible to add PG (or VG) to the filtered PGA extract, and then evaporate all the PGA, leaving just the extract flavors in the PG (or VG). I don't know if there would be any advantage though, except for removing all the alcohol. Would there be any disadvantages?

Str8vision, why do you filter the PGA extract twice, the initial filtering then the 2nd filtering after evaporating off a large percentage of the alcohol, is it because there is additional material to filter after the evaporation stage?

I bought some PGA last weekend and have only just started experimenting with PGA as a solvent. Some tobacco arrived this week too, your posts today are timely, thanks for posting your experiences

after evaporation of the PGA ( not all of it) the oil seems to want to coagulate a bit better and "clump up" into "balls".... the filtering of the PGA extract after reducing catches quite a bit more of the oil... I started to wonder if refridgeration of the PGA extract/evaporated volume would bind the oils even more so to produce a better filtering aspect since the oils would be more "congealed/thicker"... something to consider.... in fact Im going to try it on this last batch of tobacco that is presently steeping... will let yall know the results in 2 days....

 

[Bunnykiller]

I don't consider PGA better than PG or VG, in fact it adds to the overall cost. Where it shines is in its ability to extract flavor from the tobacco in a very short period of time "without heat". I also believe (good or bad), it extracts elements that PG/VG doesn't/won't.

I buy/use Everclear at the local liquor store, it is Pure Grain Alcohol (PGA), and says so on the bottle.

I may have to agree with you on the aspect of VG extracting a bit more ( flavor/goodness) but the ability of VG to extract the color and other solids ( Tannins???) which gunk up coils so quickly is my concern. Im looking for good flavor that comes with VG extractions but with the lack of the gunkyness... Since I have not done a PG extraction, I have no comparison to base off of. What would be interesting, is for those of you that have done both PG & VG extractions on the same tobacco to give "us" a review on the differences... viscosity, color density, flavor differences, filtering issues, gunking abilities, etc....

 

[Str8vision]

I may have to agree with you on the aspect of VG extracting a bit more ( flavor/goodness) but the ability of VG to extract the color and other solids ( Tannins???) which gunk up coils so quickly is my concern. Im looking for good flavor that comes with VG extractions but with the lack of the gunkyness... Since I have not done a PG extraction, I have no comparison to base off of. What would be interesting, is for those of you that have done both PG & VG extractions on the same tobacco to give "us" a review on the differences... viscosity, color density, flavor differences, filtering issues, gunking abilities, etc....

My very first room temperature pipe tobacco maceration was processed used VG as the solvent. Even warmed the VG was problematic to filter and in my opinion is an ideal candidate for vacuum assisted filtering. From that point on I switched to using PG exclusively. I usually vape close to 50/50 PG/VG and personally didn't perceive much of a difference in taste between the PG and VG processed tobacco macerations. Color wise and gunkiness also appeared about the same, dark wick/coil killers. Filtering at 5 microns didn't seem to hurt flavor but reduced the gunk factor to the point where I could burn an entire tank before re-wicking. Filtering at 1 micron slightly reduced flavor but didn't seem to reduce gunking beyond what 5 micron filtration provided. As an avid NET fan (it's all I vape), I'm not overly concerned with having to re-wick every day, but I'm very picky about the flavor. I'm not convinced that solid particles suspended in the NET are the sole cause of wick saturation/flavor loss and believe other factors are at play/contributing. I wonder if when using PG and or VG as the solvent something else is extracted from the tobacco or casing that is not flavor related. How does PGA extract the flavor without the depth of color associated with PG/VG extraction of the same tobacco blends. Inquiring minds want to know.... An Engineer by degree I have no background or experience in chemistry so I doubt I will ever know, rendering speculation/observations as my only offering. Take my opinions with a grain of salt.