Cold maceration of tobacco

[johni]

For gravity filtering, has anyone tried stacking 11>6>2.5 micron cones?

Not that I'm aware of. I have quit using the 11 micron and do the first pass through 6 micron paper. Of course, this comes after removing the bulk tobacco by passing through a mesh strainer. Different flow rates through the 6 and 2.5 micron papers would make stacking a bit perilous IMO. Besides, what's the hurry anyway? Relax, have a vape, and enjoy creating some good NETs!

 

[Mazinny]

I read the first fifteen pages last night. I think i have a basic understanding. The details and refinements will come with experimentation and further reading, i'm sure. Here's the catch though, i have a sizable stash of good commercial NET's and i'm not in a rush to extract my own. I was wondering if anyone has had any success with room temperature maceration of teas ? I have a few blends i would love to make vapeable.

Thank you everyone for the contributions to this thread, especially the op.

 

[regal55]

I'm looking for feedback on my rudimentary method. I believe good filtering is bulky filters under compression. I think many get hung up on the numbers, Filter paper I'm just not sure of, technically it requires a big buchnel vacuum assit filter (like 12 in diameter) with volumes 50ml+. But I could be wrong.



I deal with about 50 ml a time. I start with a good metal straining (fine ss mesh). Then stuffing a metal turkey baster syringe with rayon. Compressing with the first 50 ml of juice. Repeat leaving ithe rayoncompressed. Then follow up with two passes of rayon over 5 micron felt. I would like to find 3 micron felt but it is difficult to find. Looking for feedback on my method. It vapes in my drippers just fine. And it seems to be a fast basic method.

 

[billherbst]

I was wondering if anyone has had any success with room temperature maceration of teas? I have a few blends i would love to make vapeable.

I've done only two tea extractions, both heat-assisted, but I see no reason why room-temp cold macerations wouldn't work. Might have to let 'em steep for a long time, though, like three weeks to a month.

 

[Mazinny]

I've done only two tea extractions, both heat-assisted, but I see no reason why room-temp cold macerations wouldn't work. Might have to let 'em steep for a long time, though, like three weeks to a month.

ty ... i can be patient. Were you happy with the results of your heat assisted maceration ? would the ratio of tea leaves to pg be similar to what i read on this thread for tobacco ?

 

[billherbst]

ty ... i can be patient. Were you happy with the results of your heat assisted maceration ? would the ratio of tea leaves to pg be similar to what i read on this thread for tobacco ?

I prefer tobacco vapes to tea, but the tea extracts (and juices made from) are OK. Not very strong, but all right.

I can't remember the amount of tea I used or the quantity of solvent. I'd say to err on the side of more tea to solvent.

 

[MikeNice81]

I'm looking for feedback on my rudimentary method. I believe good filtering is bulky filters under compression. I think many get hung up on the numbers, Filter paper I'm just not sure of, technically it requires a big buchnel vacuum assit filter (like 12 in diameter) with volumes 50ml+. But I could be wrong.



I deal with about 50 ml a time. I start with a good metal straining (fine ss mesh). Then stuffing a metal turkey baster syringe with rayon. Compressing with the first 50 ml of juice. Repeat leaving ithe rayoncompressed. Then follow up with two passes of rayon over 5 micron felt. I would like to find 3 micron felt but it is difficult to find. Looking for feedback on my method. It vapes in my drippers just fine. And it seems to be a fast basic method.

Straight filter paper works fine for Johni's extracts and a couple of other ECF posters. I think it may be an issue of too much education making things over complicated. I've ran into that personally. It's like the time I kept doing everything I could imagine to make a snare drum sound cheap in and "punk rockish." Finally a friend walked in with an old cheap snare that I would never have imagined using on a recording. The problem was instantly fixed. I can't tell you how many times I've seen things like that happen to engineers, machinist, and just about every other "professional."

However, if your current method is working for you, stick with it. At 2.5 microns Johni's filtering can take 3 or 4 hours. If yours is faster and clean enough for your purposes, stick with it. Sometimes we get too caught up in chasing better gear.

 

[regal55]

Straight filter paper works fine for Johni's extracts and a couple of other ECF posters. I think it may be an issue of too much education making things over complicated. I've ran into that personally. It's like the time I kept doing everything I could imagine to make a snare drum sound cheap in and "punk rockish." Finally a friend walked in with an old cheap snare that I would never have imagined using on a recording. The problem was instantly fixed. I can't tell you how many times I've seen things like that happen to engineers, machinist, and just about every other "professional."

However, if your current method is working for you, stick with it. At 2.5 microns Johni's filtering can take 3 or 4 hours. If yours is faster and clean enough for your purposes, stick with it. Sometimes we get too caught up in chasing better gear.

Could be but even going back to high school chemistry, whatman paper is used to catch the solids, not the solvents, its just a bit to backwards for me. Filter &press/pressure should good enough results except for clearo's. For RDA's my rayon+felt+big syringe method is working fine. The coil's gum up (from soluable) and need dry-burn before I need to change wicks anyway

 

[aldur]

Did another round of Hearth and Home's Ten to Midnight three weeks ago. At two weeks it's ok, three weeks seems to be the magic number. I like the tang of the latakia. I don't get exact anymore, just order an ounce and break off maybe a thimble's worth to soak in a saved Wizard Labs black bottle with maybe twenty mls of PG. My Sentinel M16 clone with a IGo-W clone does well with a single coil and a cotton wick. Speaking of, must go relax.

A dark, full Balkan-style tobacco containing bright and matured Carolina and Virginias, a healthy mixture of Turkish, and plenty of flavorful, fragrant Latakias. A superb late-evening smoke that can stand up to a sturdy single-malt scotch, small-batch bourbon or hearty port.

Latakia, Oriental, Virginia - Plug

 

[usr/]

Hey guy's, new to the thread. A very good thread. This and the "natural tobaccos" thread. Just did a primary filter of my first extraction this morning. Five weeks 100% pg cold maceration Drew Estate 7th Ave Blonde. This just happened to be what I grabbed when I ran into the local humidor shop and was overwhelmed by all the choices and met with the sweet smell of smoke and tobacco aroma. I had to get out of there fast or else be tempted to sit down and start smoking something! I've come to far for that. Anyway, was just wondering if I should continue secondary filtering of this extract immediately or if maybe I could let it steep another couple weeks in this primary filtered state. It's pretty clean, and smells fantastic. I used some nylon cheesecloth type mesh that is pretty fine, some I had left from my "all grain" home brew extractions days. Didn't know if it would still need additional steeping after being blended or if it could be steeped in this state. I know it will require more filtering. Thanks in advance, I'm still new at this extracting but loving it so far.

 

[johni]

Hey guy's, new to the thread. A very good thread. This and the "natural tobaccos" thread. Just did a primary filter of my first extraction this morning. Five weeks 100% pg cold maceration Drew Estate 7th Ave Blonde. This just happened to be what I grabbed when I ran into the local humidor shop and was overwhelmed by all the choices and met with the sweet smell of smoke and tobacco aroma. I had to get out of there fast or else be tempted to sit down and start smoking something! I've come to far for that. Anyway, was just wondering if I should continue secondary filtering of this extract immediately or if maybe I could let it steep another couple weeks in this primary filtered state. It's pretty clean, and smells fantastic. I used some nylon cheesecloth type mesh that is pretty fine, some I had left from my "all grain" home brew extractions days. Didn't know if it would still need additional steeping after being blended or if it could be steeped in this state. I know it will require more filtering. Thanks in advance, I'm still new at this extracting but loving it so far.

Welcome usr/! Tobacco shops smell wonderful to me also.

Your chessecloth filtration will leave you with a lot of particulates in my estimation. I normally strain extracts and filter right away but know of no reason why you couldn't filter later also. I use 15 cm round, qualitative lab filter paper, 6 micron first pass, 2.5 micron final pass. This process produces very clean juice but it's still NET and will gunk coils albeit more slowly.

Extracting should be fun. I too used to brew my own beer and loved doing that also.

 

[usr/]

Hey johni, thanks for the reply. When I strained the bulk out and the liquid was in the bowl it looked pretty clean but when I poured it back in the jar and the last bits were running you could clearly see a pretty dense particulate in the juice, although very fine. I plan to do the 6 and then 2.5 micron process. Boy I can't wait to try it. Have four new extracts I'm going to be working on in the next few months. Sutcliff Private Stock Maple Street,Captain Black Dark,Stanwell Kir and Apple, H&H Midnight to 10. Like home brewing beer and wine, time is your friend and I can wait. But sure would like to revisit a bowl of that 7th Ave Blonde and a pint of black and bitter Barley wine. But I can't.

 

[billherbst]

Hey guy's, new to the thread. A very good thread. This and the "natural tobaccos" thread. Just did a primary filter of my first extraction this morning. Five weeks 100% pg cold maceration Drew Estate 7th Ave Blonde. This just happened to be what I grabbed when I ran into the local humidor shop and was overwhelmed by all the choices and met with the sweet smell of smoke and tobacco aroma. I had to get out of there fast or else be tempted to sit down and start smoking something! I've come to far for that. Anyway, was just wondering if I should continue secondary filtering of this extract immediately or if maybe I could let it steep another couple weeks in this primary filtered state. It's pretty clean, and smells fantastic. I used some nylon cheesecloth type mesh that is pretty fine, some I had left from my "all grain" home brew extractions days. Didn't know if it would still need additional steeping after being blended or if it could be steeped in this state. I know it will require more filtering. Thanks in advance, I'm still new at this extracting but loving it so far.

The great thing about steeping is that it takes care of itself, working its transformative alchemy regardless of what we do (or don't do). Steeping is really just another word for aging, and it happens for NETs whether they're in the form of concentrated extracts or mixed juices. Time marches on.

My guess is that if you divided your current strained-solvent-but-not-yet-truly-filtered-extract and second-stage filtered half now and half two weeks later, that the ultimate differences between the two final extracts (however far you take the filtering) in mixed juices would be neither substantial nor even perceivable in terms of flavor and performance. Six of one, half a dozen of the other. I'd say, git her done now. That way, your part of the work is done, and time takes over the job.

 

[PaulBHC]

I'd pull off a ml or two and mix with 5-10ml of base or even plain vg just to give it a taste. Then steep and try, steep and try...

 

[billherbst]

Hey johni, thanks for the reply. When I strained the bulk out and the liquid was in the bowl it looked pretty clean but when I poured it back in the jar and the last bits were running you could clearly see a pretty dense particulate in the juice, although very fine. I plan to do the 6 and then 2.5 micron process. Boy I can't wait to try it. Have four new extracts I'm going to be working on in the next few months. Sutcliff Private Stock Maple Street,Captain Black Dark,Stanwell Kir and Apple, H&H Midnight to 10. Like home brewing beer and wine, time is your friend and I can wait. But sure would like to revisit a bowl of that 7th Ave Blonde and a pint of black and bitter Barley wine. But I can't.

While I can't verify this scientifically, I'm of the opinion that the particulates that cause crust coils and gunk wicks come in both visible and invisible varieties. The visible pieces are larger and dark. The invisible ones are smaller and clear, essentially transparent bits of cellulose that have disintegrated from the cell structures of the plant leaves and are suspended in the solvent, even though we can't see them. Coarser filtering (6-10 microns) removes almost all the visible clumps. Finer filtering (2-5 microns) removes some, but not all, of the smaller invisible cellulose bits.

Maybe that's not true, but it makes sense to me, based on my experience with wire mesh, paper coffee filters, and polyester felt. Wire mesh (Melitta gold mesh cone filters) and paper coffee filters do a fine job of removing all the visible particulates, but the extract will still make juices that crust coils and gunk wicks really fast.

The 5-micron poly felt I've been using since May in my last 16 PG/VG macerations provides an obvious and substantial improvement in cleaner performance. Crusting is reduced and gunking delayed appreciably.

My next batch of macerations will use the 2.5-micron Ahlstrom paper filters, and I expect even cleaner performance from the extra 2.5-micron difference. How much cleaner? I don't know, but I'm going to find out.

 

[johni]

Bill, Wiki (a dubious source of info IMO) says particulates below 40 microns are not visible. This does make some sense though because after one filtering with a coffee filter there are generally no visible bits but we know from experience that they are there.

ETA: Finely filtered extract is however, visibly clearer.

 

[usr/]

I'd pull off a ml or two and mix with 5-10ml of base or even plain vg just to give it a taste. Then steep and try, steep and try...

Yeah Paul, My base mixes will be here tomorrow so I probably will pull off some and give it a go. May just have to paper filter that little bit though, filters probably won't be here til next week.....


And Bill I see your point about the steeping, whether mixed or just in pure extract, makes sense. Thanks for your reply's

 

[billherbst]

I'd pull off a ml or two and mix with 5-10ml of base or even plain vg just to give it a taste. Then steep and try, steep and try...

Good advice. To me, that is the equivalent of a chef tasting his food while making a dish. When I think a maceration might be "ready"---whether that's based on time, solent color, or just my curiosity---I use a small eyedropper to siphon off enough solvent to mix up a 3ml bottle of test liquid for atty-dripping. I do that routinely now, sometimes more than once with a given maceration, to more accurately judge when to stop the maceration steep and start filtering. Judging by time alone or solvent color is not dependable.

 

[PaulBHC]

My last batch I pulled some out of the jar, chunks and all, unfiltered. It all washes out after. I'm impatient like that.

 

[Str8vision]

Ordered and received 2 micron qualitative filter paper and decided to attempt re-filtering 200ml of Dunhill's Nightcap I had steeping originally filtered at 5 microns. I use Dunhill's Nightcap to produce my version of Caramel Wild Wood so this 200mls had a blend of caramel and other flavorings added and was mixed @ 50VG/45PG/5PGA. Using only gravity and with ambient temperatures averaging 95F it worked but took over 20 hours to do so. I'm on my first tank of the re-filtered juice and Immediately noticed a substantial difference in the flavor profile. I don't perceive any loss of tobacco flavor but the caramels and creams I used in the mix are noticeably "brighter" and more distinct, a marked improvement. Better filtration also seems to have clarified the juice as it is noticeably lighter in color/clearer when viewed through my Kayfun's tank. This tobacco was originally extracted using a 90% PGA 10% PG solvent blend so it was pretty light colored to start with, a medium golden tan. Time will tell if coil/wick performance noticeably improves but I'm already pleased with the result and will begin re-filtering my other extracts. KUDOS to Johni for finding this disposable filter media at such a good price point, it's a keeper.