right that's a watch battery book, for coin cells, it seems much more likely that RS is making the comparison to an AW ICR16340, especially since other CR123A/ 16340 cells follow. try putting that in a watch.
Colorado man sues after explosion
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right that's a watch battery book, for coin cells, it seems much more likely that RS is making the comparison to an AW ICR16340, especially since other CR123A/ 16340 cells follow. try putting that in a watch.
Smoking is estimated to be 1 in 5, so we're still ahead of the game
And that is DEATHS, not burns, or whatever, DEATHS.I see this case getting a 40% fault on the user, and 60% fault on PS. Will be old news before long and I doubt it has any lasting effect, except that we all may better protect ourselves and the companies that supply us with these products. Good luck PS, and I hope this doesn't happen to anyone else.
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1 in 5 people who smoke die? I thought everybody who smoked died. And everybody who doesn't smoke dies. Where do they come up with those numbers? I was a smoker for 10 years, does that mean I have a 20% chance I'm going to die? I don't quite get that. I'm just waiting for the person who got the cheapo $5 cig lighter - USB adapter and uses their passthrough on it and either starts a fire, or kills the power to their car, crashes, and sues the ecig maker.
I haven't read the whole tread, so I apologize in advance if Im repeating anything already said here.
This statement is the all too true. The attitude of your average consumer is a function of the nanny state we live in. Joe/Jane consumer counts on GovCo to 'protect' them from everything that could possibly go wrong. This is neither PureSmokers nor RadioShacks fault, sure they sold the products but the dumbass customer used them the wrong way. PureSmoker is just the low hanging fruit for the attorney to go after since they dont have the wherewithal RS does.
Maybe vendors should always sell the battery(s) they recommend using with their PVs with the initial purchase, and/or have a waiver that the customer must agree to laying out what the recommended batteries are and that the customer understands what batteries should be used with the device. I realize this could cause some issues on the battery side of the equation for the vendors, but that part of the problem probably needs to be solved as well.
This statement is the all too true. The attitude of your average consumer is a function of the nanny state we live in. Joe/Jane consumer counts on GovCo to 'protect' them from everything that could possibly go wrong. This is neither PureSmokers nor RadioShacks fault, sure they sold the products but the dumbass customer used them the wrong way. PureSmoker is just the low hanging fruit for the attorney to go after since they dont have the wherewithal RS does.
Maybe vendors should always sell the battery(s) they recommend using with their PVs with the initial purchase, and/or have a waiver that the customer must agree to laying out what the recommended batteries are and that the customer understands what batteries should be used with the device. I realize this could cause some issues on the battery side of the equation for the vendors, but that part of the problem probably needs to be solved as well.
Eventually every e-cig will have a warning label that says "not for use while showering" and "do not vape hot coffee". But only after those lawsuits go through.
See, its things like this that make me wince when I am reading a new member post asking what they should buy to replace his/her gas station e-cig, and you immediately get the bombardment with buy a Provari, or LT, or whatever mod. I read a ton of this forum before ever signing up, but many do not have the time or desire to spend hours reading about mods, let alone batteries. I didn't read all the battery posts until I had my eGo and was thinking towards the future. That being said, some members make sure to throw a nice battery warning in with their recommendation, and that always makes me happy.
Kevin J
Kevin J
I don't read warnings, and for me it is more a function of the litigious society we live in...
The fact that every Joe Blow will sue anybody for anything he can get is what causes this.
And the fact that every damn thing in the world now comes with a warning is the reaction that results.
Almost every one of those warnings are not worth the effort it takes to read them.
And I stopped reading them a long time ago.
I suppose in some respects you are correct though, because I don't read the warnings because I don't think anything is dangerous.
And I don't think anything is dangerous because I feel as though I would not have access to it if it were dangerous.
And I probably feel that way in part because of the overwhelming Nanny State regulations.
But also in large part to the fact that if it was dangerous then the maker would have already been sued out of existence.
right that's a watch battery book, for coin cells, it seems much more likely that RS is making the comparison to an AW ICR16340, especially since other CR123A/ 16340 cells follow. try putting that in a watch.
Watch AND clock battery, batteries like 9V (E522) and D cells (PC1300, EN95, ALD) are listed.
As would the the AWI L01 battery.
Camera and calculator batteries tend to be included.
Not every "mod" is the same, and they aren't any more dangerous than what you'd call "non-mod" battery, whatever that is anyway.
Provari and Lavatube are electronically controlled devices with several layers of built in protection. I'd rather have those in my mouth than any "beginner" type of battery... whatever that is anyway.
If you're arguing safety, its all-mechanical mods you should be looking.
RS batteries used to be re-branded Ray-O-Vac or Energizer (depending on who won the bid that year).
At some point they partnered with a Chinese importer instead (whose exact relationship to Tandy/RS I haven't been able to figure out).
Batteries are labled: "Custom Manufactured in China for Ignition LP".
And yet I read that all-mechanical mods are the most dangerous of all mods.
They have no extra electronic protection built in.
So what you are saying is that " ALL Mechanical Mods " have been the problem correct ? NOT electronically protected mods ??
It would have been great IF this info were made public in the beginning .
ECF has not done a very good job in this instance IMO , you took a stance that was not understood , you did NOT look at the Mods that were and have been PROTECTED , and issued an erroneous statement that has sense been retracted , please take more care in the future when making SPEC's for things you do not know about.
Sorry but that is what happened , now we have an ECF APPROVED vendor in court fighting for the company because they made a device that was NOT PROTECTED , I understand ECF is trying to clean up this mess and It needs to be cleaned up IMO , But do more research and maybe utilize some of the people here that have experience in dealing with these kinds of things , we offered and ECF did not respond.
Puresmoker is in a bad place , it is self inflicted and the design brought on the liability to that company.
I don't understand how people can even consider putting any kind of blame on ECF..... They are a supplier of a "FORUM".... It is up to the vendors and manufacturers to educate the general public on their devices they sell.....not ECF..... Again, this is a forum for the general public to share information and interact with the vendors and manufacturers..... I for one am greatfull that ECF supplies us with a place where we can interact and learn..... If you are in the business of selling a product to the general public, no matter what disclaimers you put on your website or wall of a brick and mortar, you are still liable to a point.... That is why you should have a very good insurance policy in tact at all times to cover instances such as this..... As our times have shown, it is all about how the case is presented by the lawyers and how it is perceived by a jury.....
Just my thoughts off the cuff from the start of this thread to the end reading all the comments. No "real techincal" insight as I still see myself as a noob vaper at 70 some days in now. I just felt like sharing since I am a member here and value this on-line community greatly. Just pass me by or whatever, I am still learning as I go and am happy with my slow, methodical persuit in educating myself on literally everything e-cig related.
First, I would like to at least preface this with the fact that I never like to read anthing about anyone being injured due to mechanical malfunction or user stupidity, or a combo of both....and Ido hope this person recovers from their injuries swiftly.
1. First reaction-- copycat jumping on the wagon on exploding batteries in e-cigs. Lawsuit, money from settlement... etc. AKA... McDonald's Hot Coffee junk from years ago. Frivolous lawsuit.
2. Shill...( directly or "going to be"). The E-cig industry is growing and we all are a part of it. When I "googled" e-cigarette some months ago, the ECF forum link was at the top of the list. I LOVE this forum. I feel very lucky to have found this forum before I started my vaping journey.
to you all, because it is due to this forum and some of the excellent advice and guidance I recieved here that led me to my very first starter kit (KGO) that got me off cigs since the day I started vaping. BUT... my point for #2 is this... SINCE we ARE growing and becoming "more" visable and most of us have a strong passion and want to spread the word about vaping vs. smoking, it is a lot easier for the big guns (big tobacco/pharma, et al) to respond in the early stages to push negativity and mis-information and generally to "keep it in the spotlight" that these incedents happen, which makes it B A D!!! So #2 mostly comes from my own anti-government, anti-reulation, anti-anthing feelings. I tend to lean toward the analogy I got from my Dad, the "Golden Rule"... aka... "Those with the gold make the rules". So this person may be finding themselves in a sweet spot finacially if they choose (or planned to.... ) to go ahead with a lawsuit (not that I believe they have a right to... but hey, remember McDonald's Hot Coffee Lady...) This is just another "plus" for the anti's, whether it goes anywhere or not. Just my feelings of "set up/conspiracy/etc.."
3. Dumba$$. Which could be due to any number of things which I will not get into just yet... IMO the fact of the matter is you have to be 18 to buy cigs. You have to be at least 18 to buy vaping hardware/supplies. You are an adult and should be responsible for your decisions. I do not believe there is any reason that there needs to be the ridiculous warnings that come with "most" devices/products these days. If you are that ingnorant that you need to be warned to "not use an electric hairdryer while in the shower" then you probably are not a person that "reads" the warnings on anything anyway.
I am sure I had many more fine points to comment on. LOL! At this point, it is needless and would not contribute much except to more reading for you all...
I will however exit with my last comment, take it or leave it (which, btw, is exactly what I DID when I started asking advice here...) I whole heartedly believe in the saying "You can't fix stupid". But... OTOH, you shouldn't "Tell Stupid what to buy". My comment is in agreement with those before me in this post who have stated that it s not right, smart or prudent (o.k.... those are my words) to recommend a big battery, stacked battery, VV, or any other home-made mod that a person can purchase or otherwise get "instructions" to build from YouTube...
Just a few months ago, in my search to find a good starter set up for myself, I asked the question regarding help in recommending a PV. I had NO hands on, techical knowledge. I was just looking for a good, quality, PV that fit my parameters based on my thoughts, habits, budget.... etc... I can say that I did get a lot of excellent advice and even some follow up questions from members who helped me really fine tune my decision on a good starter kit for myself. I also got a lot of "just buy a ProVari... it's going to be what you want... Eventually... save yourself a ton of bucks and just buy a (&(^*^*^(&)^) ...." whatever... you get my drift.
I DO truly appreciate the reccomendations for the higher end mods or APV's, because of the general feeling that it is going to save me some time and money. I'm SUPER SUPER HAPPY I did not start with a small batt, analog look-a-like....
Trying to wrap this up... We can't speculate on the events or actions that led to this event. We CAN,however, choose to NOT recommend a PV to someone (especially someone who has no interest in self-edcation regarding use or even basic care or SAFETY... ) that is above their capabilities. Just because someone can "afford" to purchase a paricular unit does not mean that they should... Not that someone getting "advice" from here or elsewhere is what led to this event, I am just thinking "out loud" I guess and just voicing my feelings. Peace all, and have a happy evening!
First, I would like to at least preface this with the fact that I never like to read anthing about anyone being injured due to mechanical malfunction or user stupidity, or a combo of both....and Ido hope this person recovers from their injuries swiftly.
1. First reaction-- copycat jumping on the wagon on exploding batteries in e-cigs. Lawsuit, money from settlement... etc. AKA... McDonald's Hot Coffee junk from years ago. Frivolous lawsuit.
2. Shill...( directly or "going to be"). The E-cig industry is growing and we all are a part of it. When I "googled" e-cigarette some months ago, the ECF forum link was at the top of the list. I LOVE this forum. I feel very lucky to have found this forum before I started my vaping journey.
to you all, because it is due to this forum and some of the excellent advice and guidance I recieved here that led me to my very first starter kit (KGO) that got me off cigs since the day I started vaping. BUT... my point for #2 is this... SINCE we ARE growing and becoming "more" visable and most of us have a strong passion and want to spread the word about vaping vs. smoking, it is a lot easier for the big guns (big tobacco/pharma, et al) to respond in the early stages to push negativity and mis-information and generally to "keep it in the spotlight" that these incedents happen, which makes it B A D!!! So #2 mostly comes from my own anti-government, anti-reulation, anti-anthing feelings. I tend to lean toward the analogy I got from my Dad, the "Golden Rule"... aka... "Those with the gold make the rules". So this person may be finding themselves in a sweet spot finacially if they choose (or planned to.... ) to go ahead with a lawsuit (not that I believe they have a right to... but hey, remember McDonald's Hot Coffee Lady...) This is just another "plus" for the anti's, whether it goes anywhere or not. Just my feelings of "set up/conspiracy/etc.." 3. Dumba$$. Which could be due to any number of things which I will not get into just yet... IMO the fact of the matter is you have to be 18 to buy cigs. You have to be at least 18 to buy vaping hardware/supplies. You are an adult and should be responsible for your decisions. I do not believe there is any reason that there needs to be the ridiculous warnings that come with "most" devices/products these days. If you are that ingnorant that you need to be warned to "not use an electric hairdryer while in the shower" then you probably are not a person that "reads" the warnings on anything anyway.
I am sure I had many more fine points to comment on. LOL! At this point, it is needless and would not contribute much except to more reading for you all...
I will however exit with my last comment, take it or leave it (which, btw, is exactly what I DID when I started asking advice here...) I whole heartedly believe in the saying "You can't fix stupid". But... OTOH, you shouldn't "Tell Stupid what to buy". My comment is in agreement with those before me in this post who have stated that it s not right, smart or prudent (o.k.... those are my words) to recommend a big battery, stacked battery, VV, or any other home-made mod that a person can purchase or otherwise get "instructions" to build from YouTube...
Just a few months ago, in my search to find a good starter set up for myself, I asked the question regarding help in recommending a PV. I had NO hands on, techical knowledge. I was just looking for a good, quality, PV that fit my parameters based on my thoughts, habits, budget.... etc... I can say that I did get a lot of excellent advice and even some follow up questions from members who helped me really fine tune my decision on a good starter kit for myself. I also got a lot of "just buy a ProVari... it's going to be what you want... Eventually... save yourself a ton of bucks and just buy a (&(^*^*^(&)^) ...." whatever... you get my drift.
I DO truly appreciate the reccomendations for the higher end mods or APV's, because of the general feeling that it is going to save me some time and money. I'm SUPER SUPER HAPPY I did not start with a small batt, analog look-a-like....
Trying to wrap this up... We can't speculate on the events or actions that led to this event. We CAN,however, choose to NOT recommend a PV to someone (especially someone who has no interest in self-edcation regarding use or even basic care or SAFETY... ) that is above their capabilities. Just because someone can "afford" to purchase a paricular unit does not mean that they should... Not that someone getting "advice" from here or elsewhere is what led to this event, I am just thinking "out loud" I guess and just voicing my feelings. Peace all, and have a happy evening!
Keep in mind, none of those "problems" was your Buzz blowing up in your face. There's a reason for that, outside of the (presumed) fact that you don't use unprotected lithiums from Radio Shack.
Long before exploding batteries became a hot-button issue, all the safeguardsand moreinherent to protected batts were being engineered into the Buzz. Had the victim of the Enercell debacle decided on one in favor of the choices he did make, we wouldn't be here talking about this.
We're brainstorming here about warnings rolled up into battery tubes; we know such things may legally protect the manufacturer, but don't of a necessity protect the user from himself.
The very first Buzz that went out the door was idiot-proof, to the extent that such a thing was possible.
MAybe you are not up to date on all that has gone on , no problem I understand you are fairly new , anyhow ECF has posted SPECS as a voluntary requirement to be " ECF Approved " YES they are a forum but by doing this they move into a new realm IMO .
The problem that has been happening in this industry is that many mod makers are mom and pop shops so to speak , some are not ( like Puresmoker ) and Us , however this industry has NO regulations it is a wild west of there , you should see some of the MODS that have come flashing by this place !! SCARY STUFF !!no thought on safety no insurance no design that a child would make I mean some real crazy stuff ! .
This is what happens in a brand new market , then it sorts itself out , the crap or dangerous stuff goes away ( because of law suit's ) the good stuff gets better and bigger player emerge , natural market growth .
But there have been all kinds of devices sold through ECF over the years and they are getting better .
I would have to disagree- look at the REO for instance...all mechanical- never an issue- the collapsing spring, large vent (sqonk) hole and urging of only using IMR AW batteries- works for me and for thousands who have bought and love the REO!!
Occasionally, (but very rarely) there's an issue in the REO too...a bad atty that shorts, or someone uses the wrong battery (non-recommended unprotected battery), but when that happens, the spring collapses- not an exploding battery- the mod is sent back to it's maker and made right again. A small portion of the mod takes the beating (the spring)- and not the consumer.
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Malduk, I know that some of the high end mods are protected, well designed, and very safe in comparison to some of the built-in battery standards. That was not my point (I knew I should have left examples out of my post!), my point was that there are folks who recommend a variety of big bad mods to people who may or may not have read all of the warnings and such. Like I stated, there are many who do mention the battery warnings, but many who do not. That's all....
I am just happy I went trough a natural progression, taking my time to learn as much as possible about all of the dangers and safety precautions that need to be learned. When I do jump into a 'What should I buy....' conversation, I always try to make my recommendation based on allowing for that learning curve. But I still see people making the transition from a gas station cig to a crazy mod right off the bat due to the replies to their posts. Kinda peeves me. Not necessarily because they are doing it most of the time, but because I don't have that kind of cash to throw around!
KJ
I am just happy I went trough a natural progression, taking my time to learn as much as possible about all of the dangers and safety precautions that need to be learned. When I do jump into a 'What should I buy....' conversation, I always try to make my recommendation based on allowing for that learning curve. But I still see people making the transition from a gas station cig to a crazy mod right off the bat due to the replies to their posts. Kinda peeves me. Not necessarily because they are doing it most of the time, but because I don't have that kind of cash to throw around!
KJ
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