Colorado man sues after explosion

[bombshellECHO]

It might have made a difference since we don't know how aware the purchaser was. The same warning should also be included with the device in shipment. In this suit, even if the device design stands up, the failure to warn will probably stand.

O I agree there should be warnings everywhere.but there always the chance of human error and forgetting to tell said error. There's only so much the vendors can do. Then we just have to trust in the people who buy them.

Sent from my DROID X2 using Tapatalk

 

[BuGlen]

O I agree there should be warnings everywhere.but there always the chance of human error and forgetting to tell said error. There's only so much the vendors can do. Then we just have to trust in the people who buy them.

Sent from my DROID X2 using Tapatalk

Unfortunately, trust is not a point brought up in litigation. Once a lawyer starts whispering the "Millions in damages" in the ear of their client, it won't matter how much trust there was between the customer and vendor, or even how educated the customer is. It comes down to due diligence on the part of the vendor / manufacturer to ensure limited liability on their part. This is why I recommended putting a warning document inside the mod battery compartment that must be removed before adding the batteries. If the customer still claims that the warning was not viewed, it was then by sheer determination (and potentially malice) of the customer to avoid all documentation, and therefore accept responsibility of their own actions.

This would have potentially helped this particular person since a friend ordered the unit for them and they may have never seen the warnings online.

 

[Vocalek]

What I can tell you is that using stacked 3.7batteries in an unregulated/unprotected mod, and popping on a 1.5Ω atty, should be listed under "how to build a bomb". I've heard of people doing that, and that is over 36watts (OMG heat!). There needs to be information given about Ω safety as well. When I did my VV Box Mod review, I went over the business card that MadVapes has. On the back they talk about what voltages to use at which ohms. It was something that I highlighted in the video because it was good information. I wish more vendors did this.

Now, the biggest issue I see with stacked batteries, is that you pull the doubled voltage from the top battery. In the case of a 16340, that's 7.4 volts! Most VV devices only go to 5.5 or 6 volts for a reason, stacked or not. A single battery in a boosted mod pulling 6V out of the battery really isn't much safer than a stacked battery configuration bucked down to 6V, or in my mod 5.5V. We don't usually hear about VV mods having issues, since these mods aren't pushing the batteries too far. They regulate the voltage. It's the unregulated non-VV devices that are scaring everyone.

I think as a community, we should all do our part to educate people. If you look at my Indulgence V3 review, I tried my best. But looking back, I could have done better... and I will. Battery safety, mod safety, and Ω safety -- these are all things that need to go hand-and-hand.

But, as always... this is just my opinion.

When I got to this response, the thing that popped into my head was "Speak English!" (Remember that scene from Jumping Jack Flash where Whoopee Goldberg is trying to figure out what the lyrics are by listening to the Rolling Stones singing?)

When you start talking about Ω safety you have gotten in the realm of "It's all Greek to me." In fact, you lost me at volts and resistance. I wouldn't know how to use a multimeter any more than I know how to pilot a space ship.

Products need to be made safe to use and easy to maintain for the sake of Dummies like me.

In the alternative, the book PV Mods for Dummies needs to get very basic. Assume the reader knows zip about electricity and/or electronics. Assume the reader doesn't even know what the tools are, much less how to use them. Assume that you will need lots of pictures, lots of diagrams, and a 7th grade reading level (i.e., no words with more than 3 syllables, and simple sentences.)

 

[bnrkwest]

Unfortunately, trust is not a point brought up in litigation. Once a lawyer starts whispering the "Millions in damages" in the ear of their client, it won't matter how much trust there was between the customer and vendor, or even how educated the customer is. It comes down to due diligence on the part of the vendor / manufacturer to ensure limited liability on their part. This is why I recommended putting a warning document inside the mod battery compartment that must be removed before adding the batteries. If the customer still claims that the warning was not viewed, it was then by sheer determination (and potentially malice) of the customer to avoid all documentation, and therefore accept responsibility of their own actions.

This would have potentially helped this particular person since a friend ordered the unit for them and they may have never seen the warnings online.

That is an idea about putting it inside the mod. Could be as simple as- Only use XX brand XX number in this unit, all other batteries are not recommended and could cause fire or explosion. That would get my attention! bnrk

 

[bombshellECHO]

Unfortunately, trust is not a point brought up in litigation. Once a lawyer starts whispering the "Millions in damages" in the ear of their client, it won't matter how much trust there was between the customer and vendor, or even how educated the customer is. It comes down to due diligence on the part of the vendor / manufacturer to ensure limited liability on their part. This is why I recommended putting a warning document inside the mod battery compartment that must be removed before adding the batteries. If the customer still claims that the warning was not viewed, it was then by sheer determination (and potentially malice) of the customer to avoid all documentation, and therefore accept responsibility of their own actions.

This would have potentially helped this particular person since a friend ordered the unit for them and they may have never seen the warnings online.

o yeah i completely understand that. but i mean if your gonna order something for someone you should have to print out the terms of use of something and also give that to them. but like i said human error and it happens. just kinda sad to see this happen i mean if he wins the case good for him but what happens to the company? done gone with... We forget these are not million dollar industries. the majority are people working out of their home or a small shop. and more than likey they dont have a million dollars to just say hey here you go. idk thats just my view on it.

 

[four2109]

That is an idea about putting it inside the mod. Could be as simple as- Only use XX brand XX number in this unit, all other batteries are not recommended and could cause fire or explosion. That would get my attention! bnrk

I agree, but I think this information should be made available, in your face, PRIOR to purchase. That's what some vendors have been avoiding to protect sales. It's long overdue! They need to step up to the plate and DO IT, rather than expecting and relying on their ECF footsoldiers to do it for them. It's the "cost of doing business".

 

[BuGlen]

I agree, but I think this information should be made available, in your face, PRIOR to purchase. That's what some vendors have been avoiding to protect sales. It's long overdue! They need to step up to the plate and DO IT, rather than expecting and relying on their ECF footsoldiers to do it for them. It's the "cost of doing business".

Agreed. The information in big bold letters before the sale (like some vendors are already doing), and the enclosed documentation in the unit itself would reduce their liability in such cases. If they do not execute due diligence now, they won't have to worry about sales in the future, because they'll be shut down.

BTW: I like the information in your sig line.

 

[kwalka]

I agree, but I think this information should be made available, in your face, PRIOR to purchase. That's what some vendors have been avoiding to protect sales. It's long overdue! They need to step up to the plate and DO IT, rather than expecting and relying on their ECF footsoldiers to do it for them. It's the "cost of doing business".

The cost of doing business and the cost of STAYING in business.

 

[kwalka]

Agreed. The information in big bold letters before the sale (like some vendors are already doing), and the enclosed documentation in the unit itself would reduce their liability in such cases. If they do not execute due diligence now, they won't have to worry about sales in the future, because they'll be shut down.

BTW: I like the information in your sig line.

I just replied b4 reading your post. Great minds....

 

[Oneida]

I'm curious how many mod manufacturers carry product liability insurance. My guess is probably none because the cost would probably be prohibitive given the lack of accepted engineering standards, inherent risk, etc.

 

[Bovinia]

That is an idea about putting it inside the mod. Could be as simple as- Only use XX brand XX number in this unit, all other batteries are not recommended and could cause fire or explosion. That would get my attention! bnrk

I agree with the idea, but it still wouldn't stop people from buying cheap, counterfeit batteries, whether knowingly or unknowingly. Where does consumer responsibility come in vs. vendor responsibility?

 

[Scarab30]

That still wouldn't have mattered in this case because the man it happened to was not the person who ordered it. Its a good idea and I will support it but in this case it would have been no diffrent

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It absolutely would have made a difference because it would have alerted me to the danger, in turn I would have passed that along to him. Mission accomplished.

 

[Scarab30]

This is why I recommended putting a warning document inside the mod battery compartment that must be removed before adding the batteries. If the customer still claims that the warning was not viewed, it was then by sheer determination (and potentially malice) of the customer to avoid all documentation, and therefore accept responsibility of their own actions.

This would have potentially helped this particular person since a friend ordered the unit for them and they may have never seen the warnings online.

Love that idea!

 

[Rocketman]

The stacked battery thing just confuses so many folks. I bet some aren't really sure if you are to put both in the same direction, or how twice the voltage comes out of the top cell
Or, I've even heard it's bad because the current from both batteries goes through the top cell, so if your atty shorts the top cell would be overloaded.

How about a design that didn't stack cells. The Delta wired mod. + 3.7 volts on one side of the atty connector and - 3.7 volts on the other.

 

[bombshellECHO]

It absolutely would have made a difference because it would have alerted me to the danger, in turn I would have passed that along to him. Mission accomplished.

i dont doubt you would have but what if someone didnt? or if they did and forgot to tell the person. i mean you did read the terms of service and clicked i agree right?

"At this time, the Prodigy V3 ships alone, with (2) Protected AW P17670 3.7v batteries or with (2) 3v Tenergy RCR123a LifePO4 batteries. Please make sure to read up on battery safety at www.Pure- Smokers.com or www.batteryuniversity. com/learn/ . Never leave batteries unattended while charging or while in use. We always recommend removing the batteries from the unit when it is not in use to avoid any accidental activation of the unit."

that is in the product info

This is in their terms that you click that you accepted.

CAUTION: when working with Li-ion cells, they are very sensitive to charging characteristics and may explode if mishandled.
User should have enough knowledge on Li-Ion rechargeable batteries in charging, discharging,and assembly before use.
Put the batteries in fire-proof container.
Never leave batteries unattended when charging or while in use.
Do not put batteries on wood surface or carpet when charging. Make sure to charge in Fire-Proof container.
Correct, Rechargeable Batteries should only be used. Non Rechargeable batteries that are used, then charged, create a safety hazard. Do not use or charge NON RECHARGEABLE Batteries in PureSmoker Devices.
We are not responsible for damage of any modification to the batteries in form or shape.
We are not responsible for any damage caused by misuse or mishandling of Li-Ion batteries.

Like i said not your fault and you didnt know and thats okay but all the info is there. but it does need to be more out in the open

 

[bombshellECHO]

I agree with the idea, but it still wouldn't stop people from buying cheap, counterfeit batteries, whether knowingly or unknowingly. Where does consumer responsibility come in vs. vendor responsibility?

good question i guess we will find out after we see what happens with this lawsuit

 

[cddz]

The stacked battery thing just confuses so many folks. I bet some aren't really sure if you are to put both in the same direction, or how twice the voltage comes out of the top cell
Or, I've even heard it's bad because the current from both batteries goes through the top cell, so if your atty shorts the top cell would be overloaded.

How about a design that didn't stack cells. The Delta wired mod. + 3.7 volts on one side of the atty connector and - 3.7 volts on the other.

This is still stacking batteries, the current still flows through both batteries to achieve 7.4v, you are just bypassing case ground.

 

[Scarab30]

I can buy a chainsaw even though i dont know how to use it. DOesnt mean chainsaws need more safety . It means you shouldnt buy a chainsaw if you dont know how to use it.

You've never bought ANYTHING that you werent completely familiar with? I have, thats half the fun of getting something new. Learning about it and getting used to it.

Another thing, At least a Chainsaw comes with a manual.

Since we're making ridiculous comparisons...how about this. You buy a gun, there are 2 different types of ammo that will fit in it. One is safe and the other will explode if you use it. Your new gun arrives, nothing else is in the box but the gun. All of the warnings are on the gun website and forums. You go down to Sportsmans and unknowingly buy a box of the "wrong" ammo, you ask the clerk for such and such size ammo he gives it to you, you go out and shoot it and the gun explodes. I guess the user is the idiot again? how hard would it have been to have a warning with the gun? I know this is far fetched but exactly parallel nonetheless.

 

[markfm]

Rocketman, do we want people's heads to spin off, mention that the actual flow is electrons from the negative side of the battery moving through the device towards the positive terminal?

 

[Scarab30]

i dont doubt you would have but what if someone didnt? or if they did and forgot to tell the person. i mean you did read the terms of service and clicked i agree right?

"At this time, the Prodigy V3 ships alone, with (2) Protected AW P17670 3.7v batteries or with (2) 3v Tenergy RCR123a LifePO4 batteries. Please make sure to read up on battery safety at www.Pure- Smokers.com or www.batteryuniversity. com/learn/ . Never leave batteries unattended while charging or while in use. We always recommend removing the batteries from the unit when it is not in use to avoid any accidental activation of the unit."

that is in the product info

This is in their terms that you click that you accepted.

CAUTION: when working with Li-ion cells, they are very sensitive to charging characteristics and may explode if mishandled.
User should have enough knowledge on Li-Ion rechargeable batteries in charging, discharging,and assembly before use.
Put the batteries in fire-proof container.
Never leave batteries unattended when charging or while in use.
Do not put batteries on wood surface or carpet when charging. Make sure to charge in Fire-Proof container.
Correct, Rechargeable Batteries should only be used. Non Rechargeable batteries that are used, then charged, create a safety hazard. Do not use or charge NON RECHARGEABLE Batteries in PureSmoker Devices.
We are not responsible for damage of any modification to the batteries in form or shape.
We are not responsible for any damage caused by misuse or mishandling of Li-Ion batteries.

Like i said not your fault and you didnt know and thats okay but all the info is there. but it does need to be more out in the open

Agreed!