FDA Common misconceptions about FDA regulations ( I hope CASAA will address at some point in the next few weeks)

[Oliver]

By the way, on predicates - Bill Bartowski (formerly) of Ruyan America confirmed at the SFATA conference yesterday that the earliest commercially available e-cigarette in the US was May 2007 - there is going to be no valid SE application.

 

[throatkick]

I tend to agree. One thing the government hates (and then writes into legislation on other issues) is 'loopholes' and the people or lawyers that find them. Officials find a way to close them or try to anyway.

When the intent is not honorable, an unnecessary amount of "noise" and complexity is created.

 

[EleanorR]

"You can always count on Americans to do the right thing - after they've tried everything else.”
-Winston Churchill

I do have hope. Because I love this country.

No, not Stasi--far from it. Trust me, I know. First hand knowledge. But I know totalitarian tactics when I see them. That said, I don't think they will work in America--not in the long run. America is exceptional. FDA is not all bad. Governments are not all bad. Corporations are not all bad. They are people, after all. While some of Monsanto's tactics may be abhorrent, Whole Foods and Greenpeace are not Mother Theresas either. The FDA is sometimes right--GMOs are safe to eat. Everything we eat today is genetically modified. Our dogs and cats are genetically modified--by centuries of selective breeding. Genetically modified yellow rice has the potential to save lives (and eyesight) of millions of children in the third world; even the Pope blessed it.

We have to fight for our rights and expose corruption, greed, cynicism and lies. We will win because we are right. I have no idea how long it's going to take, unfortunately. But if we make our case and provide evidence that e-cigarettes are indeed safer than smoking and that we're not harming anyone, we cannot lose. Not in America. America has always been divided--North and South, civil rights, Vietnam. We argue, we debate, yell, scream, study, produce evidence and... move forward.

Oh, Katya! How I hope and pray that you are right! I myself am far less sanguine. I adore Churchill, but the America he knew no longer exists. In some ways, that is a very good thing. But in other ways, that is a very, very terrible thing.

We could just sing. There's an old worker's song that springs to mind. Know it? Catchy tune:



Housewife's Lament

One day I was walking, I heard a complaining
And saw an old woman the picture of gloom
She gazed at the mud on her doorstep ('twas raining)
And this was her song as she wielded her broom

(Ch) Oh, life is a toil and love is a trouble
Beauty will fade and riches will flee
Pleasures they dwindle and prices they double
And nothing is as I would wish it to be.

There's too much of worriment goes to a bonnet
There's too much of ironing goes to a shirt
There's nothing that pays for the time you waste on it
There's nothing that last us but trouble and dirt.

In March it is mud, it is slush in December
The midsummer breezes are loaded with dust
In fall the leaves litter, in muddy September
The wallpaper rots and the candlesticks rust

There are worms on the cherries and slugs on the roses
And ants in the sugar and mice in the pies
The rubbish of spiders no mortal supposes
And ravaging roaches and damaging flies

Last night in my dreams I was stationed forever
On a far little rock in the midst of the sea
My one chance of life was a ceaseless endeavor
To sweep off the waves as they swept over me
Alas! 'Twas no dream; ahead I behold it
I see I am helpless my fate to avert
She lay down her broom, her apron she folded
She lay down and died and was buried in dirt.

(ch) Ohhhhhh, life is a toil and love is a trouble...

(Intended as sympathetic encouragement. How'm I doing? )
Beam.

Never heard this -- but I love it! It sounds so damn . . . Irish! And yes, the Irish in me tends to be (as my mother liked to accuse me of being) very defeatist!

 

[Katya]

Hmm, I believe this post read rather differently before it was editied. While I'm not sure whether the suggestion was correct in all of its specificity (assuming it was intended to be taken seriously, and wasn't merely ironic), I think I can say this at least: "Houston, we have a problem" with persistent disinformation.

It's wack-a-mole on a thread-by-thread basis.

Is the US gov't behind it? At this point, I don't even care. There are a lot more of us. Hopefully someone besides me will do something (hint, hint).

I know. I thought better of it. What's the point of doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results?

I don't care either. I just hope that CASAA will issue a Call to Action soon. In the meantime, I'm busy faxing our local overzealous legislators.

Whack-a-mole is fun but it gets old after a while.

 

[Katya]

She lay down and died and was buried in dirt.

(ch) Ohhhhhh, life is a toil and love is a trouble...

(Intended as sympathetic encouragement. How'm I doing? )
Beam.

I'm glad you're not my shrink, sweet Aubergine.

Other than than that, you're doing just fine.

This song is even sadder than Molly Malone. And Molly Malone always makes me cry...

 

[Katya]

The true question isn't whether it is Stasi or not. The question would be what was the path to Stasi-like results and are we on that path? And if we are, you may be right - it won't happen here, but what has to happen to derail the current train? That's the question and for here, it's only rhetorical. I submit we are on that path - it's intentionally gradual so as not to 'upset' anyone - as DC has said - boiling the frog.... We need to either hop out of the pot or find someone who knows how to turn off the stove.

I'm hopping out of the pot, dear!

And looking for those who can turn off the stove!

 

[aikanae1]

By the way, on predicates - Bill Bartowski (formerly) of Ruyan America confirmed at the SFATA conference yesterday that the earliest commercially available e-cigarette in the US was May 2007 - there is going to be no valid SE application.

That coming from you has more weight than the statement from Ruyan.

 

[Katya]

Oh, Katya! How I hope and pray that you are right! I myself am far less sanguine. I adore Churchill, but the America he knew no longer exists. In some ways, that is a very good thing. But in other ways, that is a very, very terrible thing.

Oh ye of little faith...

OK, so I had a moment of weakness in the middle of a sleepless night. Seriously, I have to have faith. If it can't be done in America, it can't be done. I'm going to call, write and send supporting documentation to every elected official in this country--if it comes to this. Even if takes years. I'm going to fight it because I believe in our cause. Whatever it takes.

Never heard this -- but I love it! It sounds so damn . . . Irish! And yes, the Irish in me tends to be (as my mother liked to accuse me of being) very defeatist!

Molly Malone????

 

[Katya]

By the way, on predicates - Bill Bartowski (formerly) of Ruyan America confirmed at the SFATA conference yesterday that the earliest commercially available e-cigarette in the US was May 2007 - there is going to be no valid SE application.

So what does that mean???????????

 

[Kent C]

I know. I thought better of it. What's the point of doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results?

I don't care either. I just hope that CASAA will issue a Call to Action soon. In the meantime, I'm busy faxing our local overzealous legislators.

Wack-a-mole is fun but it gets old after a while.

Mole's rely on that.

 

[Kent C]

I'm hopping out of the pot, dear!

And looking for those who can turn off the stove!

Vote out those who turned it on.

 

[Katya]

Vote out those who turned it on.

Very high on my list!

 

[Katya]

Mole's rely on that.

Moles need to be fed in order to survive. I'm done feeding them.

 

[Kent C]

So what does that mean???????????

If you haven't - see this.... a response to SJ's similar post on another thread:

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...or-marketer-e-ciig-vaping-2.html#post13072056

 

[Kent C]

Moles need to be fed in order to survive. I'm done feeding them.

I agree but the subject was 'Whack a mole' not 'Feed a mole'

 

[Katya]

If you haven't - see this.... a response to SJ's similar post on another thread:

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...or-marketer-e-ciig-vaping-2.html#post13072056

Back to Humpty Dumpty...

Thanks Kent.

This is a bloody mess!

 

[Stosh]

Back to Humpty Dumpty...

Thanks Kent.

This is a bloody mess!

and that's if you just pay attention to the "good" news.....

 

[Roger_Lafayette]

I know. I thought better of it. What's the point of doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results?

I don't care either. I just hope that CASAA will issue a Call to Action soon. In the meantime, I'm busy faxing our local overzealous legislators.

Whack-a-mole is fun but it gets old after a while.

Maybe I'm naive, but it really did take me about 30 seconds to get what you were saying. And after that it took me another 30 seconds to determine that you were about half-and-half serious and kidding. Or somewhat literal and somewhat ironic.

Anyway I keep my mole-whacker handy, but don't use it when it seems to be unwelcomed by TPTB. There's an adage about that, something like "He who keeps his whacker sheathed, lives to ... " Oh never mind. You get it

We appear to have one dead mole on our hands at the moment, struck down by a bolt from the blue. Poor thing. (Not.) Although the mole may merely be stunned, and ready to re-emerge tomorrow. It's kinda amazing what one or two of them can do, really.

Good luck w/ 1500. You'll need all the help you can get.

And the rest of us who don't live in CA may need you to use that fax machine at some point. One can hope for the incompetance of strangers, but not rely upon it.

 

[Katya]

Maybe I'm naive, but it really did take me about 30 seconds to get what you were saying. And after that it took me another 30 seconds to determine that you were about half-and-half serious and kidding. Or somewhat literal and somewhat ironic.

Nothing very deep. I changed my mind and deleted my OP because it was just more of the same. Round and round the mulberry bush...

Anyway I keep my mole-whacker handy, but don't use it when it seems to be unwelcomed by TPTB. There's an adage about that, something like "He who keeps his whacker sheathed, lives to ... " Oh never mind. You get it

We appear to have one dead mole on our hands at the moment, struck down by a bolt from the blue. Poor thing. (Not.) Although the mole may merely be stunned, and ready to re-emerge tomorrow. It's kinda amazing what one or two of them can do, really.

Really? Hmm... Are you sure? I just saw one of them lecturing the owner and founder of this forum. He probably has no idea whom he's talking to. SJ has spent the past 7 years in the trenches.

Good luck w/ 1500. You'll need all the help you can get.

And the rest of us who don't live in CA may need you to use that fax machine at some point. One can hope for the incompetance of strangers, but not rely upon it.

Thanks. At this point, only the NJoy lobbyist knows what is going on with the bill...

 

[Roger_Lafayette]

Yeah I saw that thing about the lobbyist. Phew

And I used to like Craig Weiss, even if his marketing dir. made that ultra-idiotic comment about "renormalizing smoking" last year.

I fear that you're right about the one mole. I just shovelled some dirt into its mouth. If I were Catholic, I'd need to talk to someone behind a screen.

I was also fairly stunned about the reply to SJ.

Nothing very deep. I changed my mind and deleted my OP because it was just more of the same. Round and round the mulberry bush...



Really? Hmm... Are you sure? I just saw one of them lecturing the owner and founder of this forum. He probably has no idea whom he's talking to. SJ has spent the past 7 years in the trenches.



Thanks. At this point, only the NJoy lobbyist knows what is going on with the bill...