Diactyl scare.

[AndriaD]

Sorry what i meant is that i knew most of the flavor vendors started removing diacetyl ( or clearly marked the ones that still have them ) circa 2010. What i didn't know was that TFA has been testing for Acetyl Propyniol as well. It wasn't until a year or two ago that AP became a concern within certain segments of the industry as well, when Dr. F and others stated that the potential risk was identical.

There are actually 3 that are of concern... diacetyl, acetyl propionyl, and acetoin. TFA tests for all three.

I'll be one of the first to jump up with "but we don't know FOR SURE" -- but I try to avoid all three because I have asthma; a) my lungs don't need anymore strikes against them, and b) since the only real symptom of bronchiolitis obliterans is "shortness of breath", I would have no way of knowing if I was having a normal asthma attack or something far worse, and I tend to the paranoid/hypochondriac side.

Andria

 

[Jman8]

That's the thing that may give this study some traction - it's tied to an issue that is real, even among vapers. The formaldehyde and other scares were based on unrealistic scenarios like burning a coil to extremes, etc. In this case, we know there is a grain of truth and that many vendors have sidestepped this issue for years. Of course it was bound to come back to haunt us.

There is a grain of accuracy to the formaldehyde and anti-freeze scares. A tiny grain. But bigger grain than what is currently available for diketone fear mongering.

Again, I fail to see the difference, and have yet to see anyone, including Dr. F. provide a decent argument on why these should be removed industry wide.

 

[Mazinny]

There are actually 3 that are of concern... diacetyl, acetyl propionyl, and acetoin. TFA tests for all three.

I'll be one of the first to jump up with "but we don't know FOR SURE" -- but I try to avoid all three because I have asthma; a) my lungs don't need anymore strikes against them, and b) since the only real symptom of bronchiolitis obliterans is "shortness of breath", I would have no way of knowing if I was having a normal asthma attack or something far worse, and I tend to the paranoid/hypochondriac side.

Andria

Thanks Andria, i spent a good bit of time on their site but couldn't find test results. I found a section with the manufacturers safety data sheets and a component list ( is this what you're referring to ? ) . But i couldn't find independent la test results specifically for DA and AP. Something like this that Flavourart released :

Home

 

[AndriaD]

Thanks Andria, i spent a good bit of time on their site but couldn't find test results. I found a section with the manufacturers safety data sheets and a component list ( is this what you're referring to ? ) . But i couldn't find independent la test results specifically for DA and AP. Something like this that Flavourart released :

Home

Well, with MSDS and specific component lists, I'm not sure what else you want? They're very thorough. They also show if there are any "custard notes" and which ones, right on the flavor description.

Andria

 

[Mazinny]

Well, with MSDS and specific component lists, I'm not sure what else you want? They're very thorough. They also show if there are any "custard notes" and which ones, right on the flavor description.

Andria

The MSDS and component lists are provided by their flavor provider ( the root manufacturer which is very difficult to identify in the murky and secretive world of flavorings ) . What i was hoping for were the actual test results from a 3rd party lab.

Mind you, i have no reason to doubt the accuracy of what their flavor manufacturer has provided TFA, but i also know that TFA is a distributor and not a root manufacturer and it seems like they are going by what their provider has told them, rather than doing independent testing. With the long history of vendors incorrectly claiming that their product is DA free based on manufacturer claims, i feel more comfortable seeing 3rd party test results i suppose. Sign of the times !

 

[sofarsogood]

This is not a reason to ban flavors or hardware or anything but, at worst, the suspect chemicals. Big deal. If a vaper wants to take action now, no problemo, mix at home with flavors you have researched or vape unflavored. You'll save a LOT of money too.

The people pushing this kind of scare tactics don't care about anybody's health, least of all smokers. One way or another they have an interest in preserving tobacco tax money. If there were no excise taxes on tobacco none of this would be happening.

 

[AndriaD]

The MSDS and component lists are provided by their flavor provider ( the root manufacturer which is very difficult to identify in the murky and secretive world of flavorings ) . What i was hoping for were the actual test results from a 3rd party lab.

Mind you, i have no reason to doubt the accuracy of what their flavor manufacturer has provided TFA, but i also know that TFA is a distributor and not a root manufacturer and it seems like they are going by what their provider has told them, rather than doing independent testing. With the long history of vendors incorrectly claiming that their product is DA free based on manufacturer claims, i feel more comfortable seeing 3rd party test results i suppose. Sign of the times !

I dunno; to me TFA seems extremely proactive in identifying any diketone ingredients. I can't see any reason to doubt what they publish -- far less reason than the ejuice makers, many of whom are just in it for a quick buck -- TPA was around before vaping, and will still be around even if vaping goes bye-bye, so they have no reason to lie or fabricate. They've been creating these DX versions, and even had Vanilla Swirl, their diketone-free version of Vanilla Custard, before they started making the Dx versions.

Andria

 

[Mazinny]

I dunno; to me TFA seems extremely proactive in identifying any diketone ingredients. I can't see any reason to doubt what they publish -- far less reason than the ejuice makers, many of whom are just in it for a quick buck -- TPA was around before vaping, and will still be around even if vaping goes bye-bye, so they have no reason to lie or fabricate. They've been creating these DX versions, and even had Vanilla Swirl, their diketone-free version of Vanilla Custard, before they started making the Dx versions.

Andria

Thanks Andria. I have absolutely no reason to doubt the honesty and transparency of TFA and i find it admirable that they are proactive and responsive to the questions of their customers, and by no means was i implying that they may be " lying or fabricating ". I just wasn't sure if they have done testing themselves or relying on the assertion of their flavor manufacturer, after i read the following on their website ( and didn't see any actual 3rd party testing ) :


Athough acetyl propionyl and acetoin are regarded as safe for use in Food Flavors, there are studies being done as to whether there are problems with inhalation. I am no expert by any means on sensitivity and safety issues, I simply provide flavors that are Food Safe, but when customers call me with questions, I try to help in any way i can. Any time you have a flavor that has a vanilla-custardy type note to it, it will have one or both of acetyl propionyl and acetoin. There is also the possibility that there will be Diacetyl as an added ingredient, (the flavor manufacturing company that we purchase our flavors from is restricted by their insurance from using Diacetyl as an ingredient, because of employee environmental health issues, but this is not true of all flavor manufacturing companies). The flavor notes of diacetyl, acetyl propionyl and acetoin are rather obvious, and once a person learns how to recognize them, they are easy to spot....

I will contact them directly for any more questions. Thanks again.

 

[Maxwell_Edison]

This is interesting here: http://dailycaller.com/2015/12/09/h...dy-on-risk-of-popcorn-lung-from-e-cigarettes/ The way I understand it is that some workers in a microwave popcorn factory inhaled powdered diacetyl. I believe it has been blown out of proportion big time! Cigarettes have much more of this substance than ejuice, so it is still THR. But the risk of getting "popcorn lung" seems pretty low to non existent.