The costs of running this huge site are paid for by ads. Please consider registering and becoming a Supporting Member for an ad-free experience. Thanks, ECF team.

Different wire types...reasons to choose a particular wire material?

Discussion in 'Wick and Wire' started by crammit442, Jan 18, 2018.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
Image has been removed.
URL has been removed.
Email address has been removed.
Media has been removed.
  1. zoiDman

    zoiDman My -0^10 = Nothing at All* ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Apr 16, 2010
    So-Cal
    Kinda depends on where your Kanthal Builds are Now? And is it going on a Mech or on a Regulated Mod?

    If you are looking for a Similar amount of Wraps at the about the Same Ohms, 28ga 316/316L would be close.

    If Lowering the Ohms is an Option, then 26ga would be fine.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Informative Informative x 1
  2. zoiDman

    zoiDman My -0^10 = Nothing at All* ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Apr 16, 2010
    So-Cal
    NiChrome 80 has a Faster Ramp-Up/Down than Kanthal(s).

    So of what I would consider to be todays Mainstream choices, I would put Kanthal(s) in 3rd behind SS(s) and NiChrome 80.
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Agree Agree x 1
  3. mimöschen

    mimöschen Super Member ECF Veteran

    Jul 15, 2016
    Given most mods' voltage limitations and lack of a boost circuit, a higher resistance can be a problem, especially if you're building very wide and/or higher diameter coils.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
  4. stols001

    stols001 Mistress of the Dark Nicotinic Arts Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    May 30, 2017
    Tucson, AZ
    I did mean thinner, thanks @zoiDman , I will edit my original post.

    Anna
     
    • Like Like x 2
  5. Zakillah

    Zakillah Super Member ECF Veteran

    Jan 24, 2015
    Vienna
    According to Steamengine, no. I dont know density and specific heat capacity of those materials on the fly. Where did you get your numbers from?
    Not that it matters much as they are very close anyway, just curious.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Winner Winner x 1
  6. zoiDman

    zoiDman My -0^10 = Nothing at All* ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Apr 16, 2010
    So-Cal
    Try it for yourself.

    Get some SS, NiChrome 80 and some Kanthal. Then try side by side builds.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  7. Ladiekali

    Ladiekali Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Sep 1, 2013
    Coastal Georgia
    thanks. i ordered the same gauge. i'm not worried about going a little lower. i vape at .5 ohms. and on regulated devices.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  8. Zakillah

    Zakillah Super Member ECF Veteran

    Jan 24, 2015
    Vienna
    Subjective perception doesnt change Physics.
     
    • Winner Winner x 2
  9. zoiDman

    zoiDman My -0^10 = Nothing at All* ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Apr 16, 2010
    So-Cal
    Sorry.

    But if you are doing Builds to get a Similar Hit, NiChrome 80 Heats Up/Down Faster than Kanthal(s). And SS heats up Faster than NiChrome 80.

    Guess if I just looked at the Heat Capacity Numbers, I could agree with you. But that wouldn't take into account the Differences in the Heat Flux. Or that the Hits you would get would be Dissimilar.
     
    • Useful Useful x 1
  10. zoiDman

    zoiDman My -0^10 = Nothing at All* ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Apr 16, 2010
    So-Cal
    Sounds like you will be in Business then.

    Let us know how you like it.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  11. Zakillah

    Zakillah Super Member ECF Veteran

    Jan 24, 2015
    Vienna
    I am confused.
    If I build exactly the same builds, same wire gauge, same diameter, same number of wraps and just use different materials, the heat flux will be the same for all of those, because its simply energy per surface area. Different materials wont change surface area, obviously.
    On a Mech SS will heat faster then NiCr which will heat faster then Kanthal. But thats because SS will draw double the power compared to Kanthal and thats not how you compare material properties. You need to throw the same Watts on all those builds for a fair comparison.

    There is a number for heat capacity on Steamengine. The lower it is, the faster the coil heats up. Its all in the unit...mJ/K. J is Watt/second. So its telling how many Watts you need to heat the coil one degree.
    You can type in any build and just change the material to easily compare them.

    Its Physics. Its proven. It works. Nevermind the fact that I heard pretty much every random order on what heats faster on various vaping forums from various people. But opinions dont mean anything when it comes to science.
     
    • Winner Winner x 1
    • Useful Useful x 1
  12. mimöschen

    mimöschen Super Member ECF Veteran

    Jul 15, 2016
    Although Kanthal has a better HeatCapacity/HeatFlux-Ratio, you can only take that as an advantage for simple or a more or less narrow range of builds. Larger builds might not even heat up due to the enormous coil mass, and its very high resistance, so you can not even adjust the watts to the desired vape quality.
    N80 and SS on the other hand offer much more room to play with, albeit at the cost of efficiency. You can emulate that with Kanthal by building parallel configurations, but that in turn can increase coil mass to an undesired/unpractical level, that chews up the advantage of Kanthal's efficiency, or you might even experience other limiting factors like overall deck space or posthole size.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  13. Zakillah

    Zakillah Super Member ECF Veteran

    Jan 24, 2015
    Vienna
    I dont see the awfull "limitations" you mention for Kanthal. I mean how many Watts do you want to vape at? 40 for single, 80 for dual coil? Thats ~2 Ohms max for 40 Watts and ~1 Ohm max for 80 Watts if we have 9 Volts to play with. You can make decent sized coils in that Ohm range, even with thinner wire.
    3,5mm diameter, 0,3mm Kanthal, parallel, doesnt hit 2 Ohms until 15 (!) wraps.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  14. mimöschen

    mimöschen Super Member ECF Veteran

    Jul 15, 2016
    Standard mainstream dual battery mods don't do 9V, because they don't have a boost circuit. There are only a handful of mods that include one.
    9V on a single 18650 mod is more than questionable, because it kills the battery way too fast in terms of battery- and cyclelife.
    Triple mods can quite safely put out 9V. Most of the time. With fully charged batteries but once again, most lack the boost circuit.
     
    • Useful Useful x 1
  15. zoiDman

    zoiDman My -0^10 = Nothing at All* ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Apr 16, 2010
    So-Cal
    I think why you are seeing just about Everyone here on the ECF saying that SS has a Faster Ramp-Up/Ramp Down than NiChrome 80, and NiChrome 80 being Faster than Kanthal is because Most People are not doing a Direct Comparison using the Exact same Watts. It's just Not how they Vape.

    They adjust the Watts until they get the Hit they Like, then do the Comparison(s) of Ramp-Up/Ramp-Down times.

    And when it comes to Mech users, like Myself, you Can't compare Different Alloy builds using the Same Wattage if the Ohms are Not the Same. And if you Make the Ohms the Same, now you have Changed the Wraps (Mass and Surface Area).

    Don't get me Wrong. I'm a big Applied Science/Physics guy. But Scientific Results are Only as good as the Applicability of the Testing Method.

    So I'm Not Disputing that you would Feel one coil should have a Faster Ramp-Up/Ramp time then another. I just Don't think the Comparison method that you use in the same as what Many/Most people use.
     
    • Useful Useful x 1
  16. Zakillah

    Zakillah Super Member ECF Veteran

    Jan 24, 2015
    Vienna
    If you compare different builds with different materials, change the size of the coil, the wire gauge and the applied power, you can say one *build* heats up faster then the other. Yes.
    You get no information about the material whatsoever, though.
    If I'm feeling funny; I'll throw 40W at a Kanthal build, and 20W at a similar size SS one, then come here and state this as prove Kanthal heats faster then SS. Obviously thats pretty dumb.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  17. zoiDman

    zoiDman My -0^10 = Nothing at All* ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Apr 16, 2010
    So-Cal
    Just Curious.

    Have you ever used any SS or NiChrome 80 builds?
     
    • Like Like x 1
  18. mcclintock

    mcclintock Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    Oct 28, 2014
    I've actually put the same size coil in my RDA of all 3 main materials and they vaped identical. The only difference is SS does tend to pop more at first due to something about the surface, but this goes away quickly, and the advantages offset it.

    Technically, Nichrome has the greatest density and heats the slowest when all critical parameters are equal. That is, the coil is the same dimensions and is fed the same power. Kanthal is the lightest and therefore the fastest. The problem is that most people do not do actual matched comparisons. It is impossible with a mech. With a mech, all this reverses IF the lower resistance wire is used to allow a thinner wire gauge. Or a larger coil can be used without becoming even slower.

    As to voltage limits of regulated mods, I never ran up to 9V but my iStick 30 ran much cooler at 22W @ 7.2V into 2.4Ω than it did running at 9W @ 2.6V into .6Ω. While other mods no doubt would have no problem with either, the point is that using boost mode didn't seem to strain it whatsoever.
     
    • Useful Useful x 1
  19. Zakillah

    Zakillah Super Member ECF Veteran

    Jan 24, 2015
    Vienna
    I started with Kanthal and now use SS. Never saw a reason to try NiCr and never did side to side comparisons.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  20. mattrix

    mattrix Senior Member ECF Veteran

    Jun 30, 2013
    AU
    I didn't know that.
    Why do you say that?
    Ignoring circuit losses, surely the battery only sees that it is asked to supply say 40W; it doesn't know or care what you do with that energy.

    There seems to be a premise that low ohm coils "need" more watts, in which case a coil that needs to be driven with a higher voltage (higher R) would drain the battery less.

    Given 2 coils with the same surface area and using the same watts, what is the advantage of the lower R over the higher R. (assuming both are within the capabilities of the mod)?
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Informative Informative x 1
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice