Wire 101... so lost.

[MikeB]

I just got a Penelope and I've decided that rba are the way to go. Only trouble is figuring this stuff out. I have a few questions (along with theories) mostly about wire. Thanks to MickeyRat, I've been reading a huge thread on wicks, so I think I'll get to the point where I've got that pinned down. But as for wire... that's a different story.

note: I apologize. I am sure all of this is covered somewhere in all these threads. However, after reading quite a bit, I still have questions. These different sub forums really need some good "stickies" on certain beginner topics... In my opinion.

Here is the wire I have heard of people using:

Resistance wire (28-36ga):
-Kanthal
-Nichome

Nonresistance Wire (30ga):
-.999 silver
-nickle

Theories:

Materials:
I have no flippin idea. I'm sure different materials will have different properties, so for instance a Kanthal/silver setup will differ from a Nichome/nickle setup even if the coils are made to perform the similarly. What those differences are, I couldn't even guess. Further, I just learned there are different Kanthals, such as "A", "A-1", and "D"... which only complicates things further.

Gauge:
I would think as you increase the gauge you'd be increasing the resistance as well, since the wire is smaller and there is therefor less material to transport the electricity. Would this be a correct assumption? On the other hand, I would also assume that as you lower the gauge of wire you'd be increasing its ability to transfer heat to the liquid since a larger wire would have a larger surface area. Correct? Finally I would think gauge would have little affect on a NR wire beyond a certain threshold.

Length (often talked about in numbers of "wraps" or "turns" of the coil:
Here again, I would think that increasing the length of the wire would also increase the resistance, since you are increasing how far electricity has to travel over a conductor that resists the flow. And again, I would also assume that increasing the length would also increase the wire's ability to transfer heat due to a larger surface area. How am I doing here? Finally, again, I would think this would have little affect on a NR wire beyond a certain threshold.

Specific Questions:

-Are there other wire materials other than those listed above? For instance why isn't copper used as NR wire?

-What materials are preferred and why?

-What gauges are preferred and why?

-Where do you get all this stuff? I keep seeing everyone talking about eBay. What's the deal? No retailer carries these things?

-Do physical changes in the wire shape effect the resistance? It's unrelated, but I know running electricity in a coil will create a magnetic field, so does the number of turns in a coil affect anything regarding resistance?

-Is there a way to combine all this knowledge and use it to predict your final resistance? For instance X-wire at Y-gauge at Z-length = ~1.5ohms ...??? How about predicting heat transfer (larger gauge / longer wire)

-Finally, how does COV make their "ready-wires"? The NR/Res wires are joined by a little dot. I assume this is either a solder or wield point but I can't tell which. I'm guessing a wield since solder would likely pop once the coil got hot. Any ideas? I know I can just twist them together, but I am curious...

If you've read this far, Thanks!!!!

 

[Keekers]

This is a good question....! Hopefully someone responds.

 

[MikeB]

This is a good question....! Hopefully someone responds.

I thought so too, but its not looking like I'm going to get many answers...

I'm still doing my own reading, and while I've learned a good bit, it hasn't exactly come together yet. Even if no one responds, I'll update this with what I learn... as I feel confident I sorta know what I'm talking about.

 

[mwa102464]

Go here and read, you can learn all about the different properties of each wire and there make ups, = Kanthal ,, straight copper isnt used because it will oxidize and simple just isnt good to be vaping with, the newest wire coming out now to use is Titanium and you will be see a lot of this soon

 

[mwa102464]

I just got a Penelope and I've decided that RBA are the way to go. Only trouble is figuring this stuff out. I have a few questions (along with theories) mostly about wire. Thanks to MickeyRat, I've been reading a huge thread on wicks, so I think I'll get to the point where I've got that pinned down. But as for wire... that's a different story.

note: I apologize. I am sure all of this is covered somewhere in all these threads. However, after reading quite a bit, I still have questions. These different sub forums really need some good "stickies" on certain beginner topics... In my opinion.

Here is the wire I have heard of people using:

Resistance wire (28-36ga):
-Kanthal = difference is in the makeup of the wire, read about it at the link I gave to you on the other post
-Nichome

Nonresistance Wire (30ga):
-.999 silver silver wire is good to use, it doesnt have any harmful properties in it and silver is very conductive
-nickle

Theories:

Materials:
I have no flippin idea. I'm sure different materials will have different properties, so for instance a Kanthal/silver setup will differ from a Nichome/nickle setup even if the coils are made to perform the similarly. What those differences are, I couldn't even guess. Further, I just learned there are different Kanthals, such as "A", "A-1", and "D"... which only complicates things further.

= difference is just in the properties of the wire, again go to Kanthal.com and see
Gauge:
I would think as you increase the gauge you'd be increasing the resistance as well, since the wire is smaller and there is therefor less material to transport the electricity. Would this be a correct assumption? On the other hand, I would also assume that as you lower the gauge of wire you'd be increasing its ability to transfer heat to the liquid since a larger wire would have a larger surface area. Correct? Finally I would think gauge would have little affect on a NR wire beyond a certain threshold.

Yes exactly, but once you get to about 28Awg the wire gets pretty thick and is tougher to use in many applications, therefor we use mostly 31-36AWG for most applications. With 31-32 working the best for RBA's for the most part, so that's why 32AWG is used a lot


Length (often talked about in numbers of "wraps" or "turns" of the coil:
Here again, I would think that increasing the length of the wire would also increase the resistance, since you are increasing how far electricity has to travel over a conductor that resists the flow. And again, I would also assume that increasing the length would also increase the wire's ability to transfer heat due to a larger surface area. How am I doing here? Finally, again, I would think this would have little affect on a NR wire beyond a certain threshold.

Yes, resistance is measured by the length of the wire, and the AWG used basically

Specific Questions:

-Are there other wire materials other than those listed above? For instance why isn't copper used as NR wire? = Copper oxidizes to much and just isnt good to use copper for anything to do with vaping,,,,Titanium is coming and should be dam good hopefully,,,,,mine should be here tomorrow

-What materials are preferred and why? 80/20 Nichrome,,, Kanthal A-1,,,Titanium

-What gauges are preferred and why? 31-36 are what we typically see used because of its size, ohms per inch, some of us do go down to 28-29 for Genesis coil wraps and it does work well for certain applications

-Where do you get all this stuff? I keep seeing everyone talking about eBay. What's the deal? No retailer carries these things?

Try here = Silica Wicks | The source of great supplies and ebay and some ECF vedors sell it too,,,,, Kanthal.com only sell wholesale in large amounts so dont try buying from them


-Do physical changes in the wire shape effect the resistance? It's unrelated, but I know running electricity in a coil will create a magnetic field, so does the number of turns in a coil affect anything regarding resistance?

Yes, number of turns is what determins total resistance, actually the length of the wire determines resistance.

-Is there a way to combine all this knowledge and use it to predict your final resistance? For instance X-wire at Y-gauge at Z-length = ~1.5ohms ...??? How about predicting heat transfer (larger gauge / longer wire)

We usually use our multi meters to find our resistance, you can hold each lead in your hand to each end of the wire to determine your resistance MikeB.

-Finally, how does COV make their "ready-wires"? The NR/Res wires are joined by a little dot. I assume this is either a solder or wield point but I can't tell which. I'm guessing a wield since solder would likely pop once the coil got hot. Any ideas? I know I can just twist them together, but I am curious...

COV doesn't make them, they are made in China by the manufacture, There is a special machine used to make those its not solder but more of a weld.

If you've read this far, Thanks!!!!

Hope that helps ya out MikeB

 

[MikeB]

I just found a calculator for Nicrome Wire. It's pretty cool. According to it, using 5cm (for approximately 5 turns I guess) of 34ga Nichrome will yield a resistance of 2.78ohms. Further, it tells me that at 4.8 volts I'll be pushing 1.7amps, for about 8watts, and heating the coil to 1720deg F! crazy...

edit: I think this is calculating for Nichrome 60, which evidently is 60% Nic, 16%Cr, & 24%Fe. Can this be used as a res wire instead of Nichrome 80, which I assume is 80% Nic, 20% Cr?

 

[MikeB]

Hope that helps ya out MikeB

Yes it does, Thanks!

 

[mwa102464]

MikeB,,,

Get yourself a cheap Multimeter, they come in handt and can be had for $5-$15 for a cheap one , that's all you need is an inexpensive one.

 

[Keekers]

Thanks!!! This has helped me out too!!!!

I'm confused on how to use the multimeter to check ohms. I read that it only reads resistance. How does that help to try and find ohms?

 

[MikeB]

Thanks!!! This has helped me out too!!!!

I'm confused on how to use the multimeter to check ohms. I read that it only reads resistance. How does that help to try and find ohms?

Bascially, ohms is the unit of measure of resistance. 3ohms has more resistance than say, 2ohms.

For example, running at 6volts, 3ohms would resist the current and reduce your power output to 2amps, while 2ohms at the same voltage would resist less and reduce your power to only 3amps (which would run hotter). One isn't better than another, and you can't predict your vape by only looking at volts, ohms(resistance), and amps because it all depends on a lot of other variables such as the juice, your preference, your devices, etc. Those three, volts/ohms/amps, are part of the puzzle though.

If this is as clear as mud, let me know.

 

[Keekers]

Bascially, ohms is the unit of measure of resistance. 3ohms has more resistance than say, 2ohms.

For example, running at 6volts, 3ohms would resist the current and reduce your power output to 2amps, while 2ohms at the same voltage would resist less and reduce your power to only 3amps (which would run hotter). One isn't better than another, and you can't predict your vape by only looking at volts, ohms(resistance), and amps because it all depends on a lot of other variables such as the juice, your preference, your devices, etc. Those three, volts/ohms/amps, are part of the puzzle though.

If this is as clear as mud, let me know.

Oh. How do you measure your ohms? Do you literally measure the wire?
Getting clearer......

 

[MikeB]

Oh. How do you measure your ohms? Do you literally measure the wire?
Getting clearer......

On any prebuilt device (even non-vape stuff like say, a lightbulb), you would touch/clamp one lead to the positive connection, and the other lead to the negative. The meter then passes a tiny amount of current through it and measure the resistance. On a wire or coil you are working with, you would simply do the same thing. I haven't done it myself on vape stuff, but I'm sure the principle is the same (I have done it on electrical work). You would just touch/clamp one lead at one point on the wire and the other lead on another point. The meter would then show you how much resistance there is between those two points in Ohms. If you move one of the leads, the resistance will (should) change because the current is having to pass through either more or less metal. Oh, and the positive negative thing won't matter on a coil or wire you're working with because it doesn't matter which way the current flows. On electrical work this matters because the current is usually designed to only flow one direction... at least on DC stuff.

Hope this helps.

 

[Keekers]

On any prebuilt device (even non-vape stuff like say, a lightbulb), you would touch/clamp one lead to the positive connection, and the other lead to the negative. The meter then passes a tiny amount of current through it and measure the resistance. On a wire or coil you are working with, you would simply do the same thing. I haven't done it myself on vape stuff, but I'm sure the principle is the same (I have done it on electrical work). You would just touch/clamp one lead at one point on the wire and the other lead on another point. The meter would then show you how much resistance there is between those two points in Ohms. If you move one of the leads, the resistance will (should) change because the current is having to pass through either more or less metal. Oh, and the positive negative thing won't matter on a coil or wire you're working with because it doesn't matter which way the current flows. On electrical work this matters because the current is usually designed to only flow one direction... at least on DC stuff.

Hope this helps.

Yes it does help! Thanks so much!