Discussion: Mods vs. E-cigs

[HaploVoss]

Ok, since it was brought to my attention that this was cluttering up the docket thread (my apologies that was not the intent) and there have been very few comments I would like some serious input on this. Other than just a disagreement. If anyone out there could tell me why there would be a difference here I would really appreciate a real reason or definition please...

There are stores everywhere here in Missouri (so you can say this or that state don't allow it ok, well here they sell them like pancakes to syrup vendors) that sell stainless steel crackpipes, glass waterbongs - I mean everything from small to HUGE ones!! all sorts of accessories that are obviously designed for their purposes of boiling, smoking, snorting, whatever of ...., pot, crack, what have you.

It is all 100% legal and has been going on for decades without any problems and I do not remember the terminology used precisely but all of the items are being sold as some sort of accessory or ornamental items.

So the question is: Why couldn't some of the mods like the Protege, SB, Prodigy, Xhaler, etc. all be sold under the same pretense? I mean as long as they are not sold in a kit - couldn't they just be 'interpreted' as a vaporizing toy like so many other foggers or whatever? Choose your own device or terminology / methodology -> I am sure there is something much better to go with, but you see where I am going yes?

I understand that if the FDA is given control over e-cigs, then they are going to ban the sale, and importation of e-cigs. well pot and crack are certainly illegal and banned - but the accessories are not? What about us that want to vape something legal?

Take care,
- Hap

 

[Ridewithme38]

in NY most of the Pipes, Bongs and Other such devices are sold with a Huge Banner on the Case saying "For Tobacco use ONLY" the problem with E-cigs is...there really is no other use then to heat up and inhale Flavored PG/VG...We would need to find a way to truely multipurpose a mod and make it VERY POSSIBLE to use in other ways...

 

[doots]

i dont think that they are interested in banning ecigs. All they need to ban is the liquid and they cut the head of the snake off. It dies.. enough said..

 

[HaploVoss]

Ok great points thank you. Although I am almost certain the FDA is requesting controll over e-cigarettes overall and not just e-liquid. If that were the case it would not be a big deal as there would still be a market IMO. I know I am more than willing to buy some mild nicotine base out of St. Louis and do my own mixing. They have been selling nicotine base for - I dunno - ever as a chemical company so....

Take care,
- Hap

 

[RenaissancePuffer]

I believe that the problem is that the atomizers, proprietary e-cig batteries, and carts would all be categorized as a "drug delivery device" by the FDA. Yes, even a harmless blank cart. Because there are no alternative uses for it (yet) to my knowledge.

A manufacturered mod, I wouldn't think could be controlled the same way, but I could be wrong here.

It could be simple though, make a light that screws into the battery connector, market it as a flashlight.

"These aren't the e-cigs you're looking for. . ."

 

[HaploVoss]

I just clicked on the thread and you had posted... that's exactly what I was going to suggest - just make them into LED flashlights or something. Here we have our model '5-E10 superbright light' or for only 20 bucks more you can get an adapter that will give you 4 other color lights using the 9-E10 adapter! Or try our 8-E01 laser pointer adapter!

or whatever.

 

[dragonpuff]

IMO, a large part of what's happening now with e-cigs is due to increased use and awareness. Think about it: the e-cig has existed in its current form since 2004, people have been using it in the united states at least since 2005, and the FDA decides to crack down on it in 2009??? That's at least a 4-year gap!

I'm certain the government knew about these before, but didn't start cracking down until they believed the use could become more widespread. I'll bet at first they thought it was just an odd little fad that would fade away on its own. But it didn't fade, it grew, so then they decided to do something about it for fear that it would become "mainstream" without any regulations on it.

My point is, I'm sure they're aware of the mods, but i'll bet they're not going to spend any time or money going there because they think it's more rare to use them. Unless mod use becomes as widespread as traditional e-cig use has become, i think they'll leave that one alone out of convenience, just like they did with all e-cigs in the beginning.

That's my 2¢ here, take it or leave it

 

[HaploVoss]

I agree dragonpuff, but the point is that the vendors can't really advertise the same as they did before - get your 'e-cig mod' here. Get your 'e-cig' replacement parts here. That was kind of the point I was driving at - what are the legal implications that the modders could use to legally promote and sell their products without a bunch of hassel. I mean shoot I've been vaping since fall of 2007.

I mean my wife and I have a really cool idea for a neat little mod we've been wanting to do, but we are afraid to invest much time and effort into it if we are just going to have to deal with nothing but suffering and loss of funds over it - especiallyat a time where we need more funds rather than having our past disposable income we were used to.

Take care,
- Hap

 

[TDM]

IMO they are going to try to tax everything they can. You need to learn to build your own mods, or become friends with someone who can build them for you. Would also be nice to develop a business relationship with a supplier out of china. My main supplier has already told me she will keep shipping. Even if their is a ban she will supply my juice and attys. I have enough attys at the present time to last 3-5 years. The only weak link in my supplies presently is juice. I do not want to stockpile a huge quantity as it does go bad in time. At the present time I have approx. 1000 ml.

If people are going to stockpile. IMO the best money investment is atomizers. They can sit in a drawer for year without going bad.

 

[HaploVoss]

I can understand this. I have also been in touch with various suppliers in China. One in particular that sent us a bunch of samples per my wife's request. I have no doubt by the way these items were sent to us that it is not going to be a problem even if a ban ensues, however I still think that there should be a way for the current vendors of mods to be able to sell their products. That is the point of the thread.

Any legaleze peops out there want to take a stab at this one? I've read a few things from Sun and others on the Docket thread but no real explanations or options.

 

[RenaissancePuffer]

If the manufacturer sells a flashlight, it's a flashlight. Adapters for different bulb fittings, are just that. I don't see anything illicit about that.

I don't see any issues with getting mods. As TDM mentioned, the Juice and Atty's are the issue. There will be legal DIY ways around that, especially if and when a ban happens.

Building our own devices is simple, I built a USB passthrough with about 15 dollars in supplies and about 30 minutes of my time. We already have the instructions to build our own.

The best news is, this site will be here, and we will always be talking to one another.

 

[trog100]

i think a device that looks like a cigarette comes under the argument its to deliver nicotine.. therefore its a drug delivery device... nicotine being the drug..

but something thats called a portable battery powered vaporizing device isnt so clear cut.. if it dosnt look like a cigarette and isnt called a cigarette can it be a cigarette electronic or otherwise..

personally i dont think it can.. we have been asked to legally describe the product we sell.. we are close to settling on a portable battery powered vaporizing device..

i dont really like the term vaping but vaping could just be that.. creating clouds of exotic tasting vapour.. all completely drug free and done simply for the pleasure gained from "vaping"..

not as daft as it sounds.. quite a few folks that use this place say their aim is to do nicotine free vaping..

sooo we dont sell electric fags any more... we sell vaping machines... he he he

trog

ps... a whole new craze.. nicotine and smoke free "smoking" which for want of a better word we can call vaping.. why not..

 

[TDM]

Most of the different mod suppliers have already said they can screw a flashlight adapter to the end of their mod and sell a 501 flashlight, a 801 flashlight, or a 510 flashlight.

Trog even mentioned he was going to sell his as an adult entertainment toy.

 

[trog100]

i wonder if the FDA have heard of a mod.. the bottom line is if it dosnt ape a tobacco product it will be a lot harder to define as a nicotine (drug) delivery device than it if does look like cigarette..

as an experiment i might try and get a screwdriver on ebay using the term portable battery powered vaporizing device... sold with nicotine free exotic flavored liquid.. roast chicken.. smokey bacon.. brandy.. you name it..

now would it catch on... he he he

if it walks like a duck.. quacks like a duck.. its a cigarette.. if it dont it aint.. its a vaporizing device.. not a sign of a duck in sight... he he he..

trog

 

[HaploVoss]

i wonder if the FDA have heard of a mod.. the bottom line is if it dosnt ape a tobacco product it will be a lot harder to define as a nicotine (drug) delivery device than it if does look like cigarette..

as an experiment i might try and get a screwdriver on ebay using the term portable battery powered vaporizing device... sold with nicotine free exotic flavored liquid.. roast chicken.. smokey bacon.. brandy.. you name it..

now would it catch on... he he he

if it walks like a duck.. quacks like a duck.. its a cigarette.. if it dont it aint.. its a vaporizing device.. not a sign of a duck in sight... he he he..

trog

Oh man if you do, you have to post the link so we can all watch and see not only how much it goes for, but how long it does / doesn't take eBay to flip a cork!

 

[FAUXPUFF]

Why don't they just make an 801/901/510 threaded LED attachment and call them flashlights?

 

[FAUXPUFF]

Would be easier taking them on a plane like this as well...

 

[trog100]

we have a south african customer who ask for some screw on flash light ends to make sure they could travel okay on airplanes.. we made some and sent them off..

so basically the battery part could be disguised as anything.. it could be anything.. it cant really be banned..

devices that dont look like tobacco products do open up opportunities..

from a sellers point of view.. if we stop using the key words like "smoke".. nicotine and cigarette will anybody buy the things..

i do think given enough marketing push a vaping exotic flavours simply for the pleasure gained from doing it market could be created.. the future of "smoking" whoops vaping could be both smoke and nicotine free if so desired..

not for me because i am an addict... but tomorrows generation dosnt have to be.. the secret is in the exotic liquid flavors i am reasonably sure of this..

trog

 

[tdstrike]

how about making an ipod/pda/cell phone connector with one end being the female end of a 901 atty, then your mod becomes just another external emergency battery pack. Roast chicken vape...mmmmmmm.