DIY Ejuice Q's

[NatashaTMT]

The standard pat DIY answer applies: "Yes and no..."

DIY creation is about 95% flavor; and 5% "texture." Cooking is more balanced.

DIY is mostly about finding the concentrate that provides the most appropriate flavoring effect. Sometimes it is a simple 1:1 "I want a strawberry taste; so I use Brand X-Strawberry." But, other times, the flavor doesn't exist (like straight/plain cream cheese); or it is modified (like a "browned" butter vs. melted butter; or plain sugar vs. caramelized sugar). So I may need to go to some different flavor that provides the flavoring effect (or specific notes; as DIY often refer).

If you are going to use cooking experience, to influence the creation of a DIY recipe, it is helpful to analyze what purpose the food ingredient is used for in that particular food recipe (depending on the recipe; it may be more than one). Is it adding specific flavor notes? If so; what are they? Is it acting as a binder, thickener, filler? Most likely won't be needed in the DIY creation. Is there a textural contribution? Textures like "thick, creamy, moist, juicy, dry, and fluffy" are all realistically doable in DIY; textures like "grainy, crispy, crunchy, and flaky" not so much.

Sometime choosing the "best" DIY ingredient for one flavor note will also provide additional wanted (or unwanted) flavor notes. I may want to use INW-Creme Brulee for the correct caramelized sugar note, but I may/may not want the vanilla note that comes along with it. Depending on what I want my DIY creation to be; I may need to leave out a separate vanilla note; or use a different concentrate all together.

A good example of this "from scratch" development can be seen in the ECF thread: Milk Tart (South African version). I found the evolution of this DIY recipe by collaboration, based completely on a food recipe, and the discussion on ingredient choice/selection, to be very educational.

Okay, so now I’ve got to try MelkTert! Did you ever mix and try either V5 or V5.b? I now see why you first replied “yes and no” to my question. I get it! Thank you, once again!

 

[IDJoel]

Okay, so now I’ve got to try MelkTert! Did you ever mix and try either V5 or V5.b? I now see why you first replied “yes and no” to my question. I get it! Thank you, once again!

Not yet. I am still shy one ingredient; the FA-Milk Condensed (which is crucial for the recipe). It is on my shopping list, but I have been on a self-imposed DIY shopping timeout, for about a year now. At last count, I had around 70 concentrates, I hadn't even cracked open yet.

I'm glad you found the thread informative. I really learned a lot following @Ricksha's, @man00ver's, and @G-Fog's whole thought process. The written collaboration also made a great visual (for me); to see how "concept" might need to morph, to arrive at final "perception." I loved the very linear illustration of: concept --> definition --> trial --> adjust --> definition adjustment --> trial --> adjust --> refine --> refine --> finish.

And I love, that the end result was not one, but two viable recipes. @man00ver had his preferred recipe; and @Ricksha had his preferred recipe.

The thread also provides some great examples, of how concentrates can influence other concentrates, as well as the overall recipe.

 

[stols001]

I see similarities in DIY to cooking (balance, accent notes, and that sort of stuff) but yeah, it's more like cooking with chemicals, and they will sometimes behave a bit unpredictably together. Most good cooks though (I am one) have developed a "sense" of how ingredients interact together, and it's a bit of a different process. However, knowing your flavorings is really the key. If you understand how they interact, well, things start to make sense.

I will say, one thing DIY taught me was how ubiquitous these flavorings are, and there are times I "wish I knew" what "strawberry" was added to my greek yoghurt (could call and ask I guess, although I'm quite sure they wouldn't tell me) as it actually tastes more "natural" than most of the strawberry I come across, although mouthfeel probably plays a role there, as I'm more likely to identify a "strawberry" flavor as natural if I'm actually chewing on some alongside it.

LOL, it did make me fearless in creating a greek yoghurt coconut. I knew I'd probably like it fine and it does, indeed, taste very similar to the coconut greek yogurt I enjoy and etc.

I think the biggest similarity to cooking is that (once you know your basics) you can get creative more quickly, with less incidents of "fail." I usually expect that at least one out of ever 11 100 ml mixes I make may be a "fail" but I am often pleasantly surprised if they aren't. LOL.

Anna

 

[NatashaTMT]

I am still shy one ingredient; the FA-Milk Condensed

I have this one and it’s great used with extreme caution but it really is that rich! Even at a low percentage it can mute your main player(s). I’ve enjoyed mixing it with marshmallow and custard for a sweetened condensed milk flavoring and used that as a flavor in mixes. I’m sure it has many great uses diluted and not.

I'm glad you found the thread informative.

It felt like I was reading privy information and was happy I didn’t have to wait for the results each step of the way. Like a good book, it drew me in.

And I love, that the end result was not one, but two viable recipes. @man00ver had his preferred recipe; and @Ricksha had his preferred recipe.

Same although I just might have to try them both plus v5.b How will I know otherwise, right? (Scientifically speaking of course, haha) In the beginning I envisioned a custard pie type dessert, like you (I think). I love custards and similar. So I’d be surprised if I didn’t like them all. I’ve not yet had the pleasure of tasting a real MelkTert. I do have to wonder about the Milk Tart flavor concentrate manOOver mentioned towards the beginning but I can’t imagine it being anywhere near as good as this collaboration recipe(s).

The thread also provides some great examples, of how concentrates can influence other concentrates, as well as the overall recipe.

I agree! I was surprised how such simple changes from v5 and v5.b took away the “layering” effect.
I really appreciate you sharing this as it’s a great read for any mixer, I imagine both newbie and experienced alike!

 

[NatashaTMT]

Oh... @IDJoel , ever since you mentioned LorAnn’s Tart & Sour I’ve looked for it in every Wally World I’ve been in (which is about six total.) They took forever today changing my oil and putting on new tires! So I walked to a nearby Hobby Lobby to kill some time and there it was When I got home, my new Norpro was here. So I have two excuses to mix today! Not that I need one, but makes it a bit more exciting

 

[NatashaTMT]

I see similarities in DIY to cooking (balance, accent notes, and that sort of stuff) but yeah, it's more like cooking with chemicals, and they will sometimes behave a bit unpredictably together. Most good cooks though (I am one) have developed a "sense" of how ingredients interact together, and it's a bit of a different process. However, knowing your flavorings is really the key. If you understand how they interact, well, things start to make sense.

I will say, one thing DIY taught me was how ubiquitous these flavorings are, and there are times I "wish I knew" what "strawberry" was added to my greek yoghurt (could call and ask I guess, although I'm quite sure they wouldn't tell me) as it actually tastes more "natural" than most of the strawberry I come across, although mouthfeel probably plays a role there, as I'm more likely to identify a "strawberry" flavor as natural if I'm actually chewing on some alongside it.

LOL, it did make me fearless in creating a greek yoghurt coconut. I knew I'd probably like it fine and it does, indeed, taste very similar to the coconut greek yogurt I enjoy and etc.

I think the biggest similarity to cooking is that (once you know your basics) you can get creative more quickly, with less incidents of "fail." I usually expect that at least one out of ever 11 100 ml mixes I make may be a "fail" but I am often pleasantly surprised if they aren't. LOL.

Anna

Getting to know flavorings, seems that it will take forever as there’s so many. Though I’m assuming that actually has to do somewhat with knowing the flavoring types also? Although there are many many flavor options out there, there seems to be a couple hundred I’m seeing more so than the rest. So it’s probably safe to start there and once I get those down...

I will say, one thing DIY taught me was how ubiquitous these flavorings are

I’ve noticed I pick up more on flavors now in food and drink. DIY has probably changed my thinking somewhat and made me more contemplative of what actually makes up what I’m tasting and how I’d achieve. I did this before but now with more err to fine detail.

Both strawberry and coconut Greek Yogurt sounds tasty! Mixed a cherry pie yogurt a few days ago but it’s still steeping.
Unfortunately, while my mixes are coming together, about 1 in 5 aren’t. I know they’ll get better as I grow as a mixer. I set unrealistic expectations for myself right off which led to some discouragement. Once I reevaluated my expectations and adjusted accordingly, the magic began! I believe it was you that told me magic happens when MTS Wizard is used. You’re right though, lol! I look forward to learning all these things!
Thanks for sharing your advice & opinions!

 

[NatashaTMT]

Anyone used Hobby Lobby’s clear candy flavorings... Sunny Side Up Bakery? Nothing in the ingredients to cause concern. I checked that recipe site and there are only a couple mixers who’re using it. I’m thinking it’s a newer product but not certain. They’re 60 ml bottles for only $1.99 + tax. I’m just curious whether or not they’ll be strong enough. I grabbed almond, vanilla & butter. I figured for that price what could it hurt to try. Though I’d like to hear if anyone else has any experience with these flavorings as they have other flavors to purchase if they’re any count.

 

[NatashaTMT]

I'd love to hear what you think; once you've had a chance to use it.

I like the Norpro mixer. I love how fast it does it’s job and the fact it omits an entire step! However, I did learn I need a bottle twice the size of the liquid capacity to keep it from spilling over when you hit the button All good though, lol! Now I know. It’s a powerful little thing too! When I saw how small it was I raised an eyebrow. But no problems there as the attachments are plenty long enough so far. I’m happy with this purchase!
LorAnns Tart & Sour brings the sour as much as possible IMO. I did a “scared” tongue test from the styrofoam seal on the bottle. It’s identical to sour candy coatings. I also added it to a two week old flavor test for RF Blue Razz. I can see how one could easily use too much if not careful. I’m thinking it’d probably be best for shake and vapes considering the malic acids potential to mute flavors. I guess it could be added after a steep in smaller batches. I like it though. So, another win there!
Two great buys you suggested! Thanks

 

[IDJoel]

Anyone used Hobby Lobby’s clear candy flavorings... Sunny Side Up Bakery? Nothing in the ingredients to cause concern. I checked that recipe site and there are only a couple mixers who’re using it. I’m thinking it’s a newer product but not certain. They’re 60 ml bottles for only $1.99 + tax. I’m just curious whether or not they’ll be strong enough. I grabbed almond, vanilla & butter. I figured for that price what could it hurt to try. Though I’d like to hear if anyone else has any experience with these flavorings as they have other flavors to purchase if they’re any count.

Never heard of them before. I couldn't find anything on Hobby Lobby's website. And I couldn't find anything Googling "Sunny Side Up Bakery flavors/flavoring/flavor concentrate." ELR doesn't offer much info.

Sounds a bit dubious to me. I am pretty chicken about trying new stuff; preferring to stay with concentrates that have a proven track record. But, if you feel confident they don't use oils, sugars, preservatives, or anything else you don't want to be inhaling, then give it a try. Let us know what you think.

I like the Norpro mixer. I love how fast it does it’s job and the fact it omits an entire step! However, I did learn I need a bottle twice the size of the liquid capacity to keep it from spilling over when you hit the button All good though, lol! Now I know. It’s a powerful little thing too! When I saw how small it was I raised an eyebrow. But no problems there as the attachments are plenty long enough so far. I’m happy with this purchase!

Glad you like it; and thanks for the review.

I don't think I would have remembered to think about fluid expansion while mixing either. Well, lessons learned like that are not quickly forgotten. Glad it wasn't catastrophic!

LorAnns Tart & Sour brings the sour as much as possible IMO. I did a “scared” tongue test from the styrofoam seal on the bottle. It’s identical to sour candy coatings. I can see how one could easily use too much if not careful. I’m thinking it’d probably be best for shake and vapes considering the malic acids potential to mute flavors. I like it though. So, another win there!

Happy to hear it is a keeper for you. It is one of the better "souring" agents for me.

Two great buys you suggested! Thanks

You're most welcome. But, to be fair, neither is an original idea of mine. I was only repeating what other ECFers had previously shared with me. Your thanks belongs to our great community!

 

[NatashaTMT]

Never heard of them before. I couldn't find anything on Hobby Lobby's website. And I couldn't find anything Googling "Sunny Side Up Bakery flavors/flavoring/flavor concentrate." ELR doesn't offer much info.

I also couldn’t find much of anything pertaining to this brand and zero about mixing using these flavorings. This is why I asked here. I haven’t gotten around to testing yet but definitely will. I like that they're clear though I need to research a couple ingredients before attempting to vape. Initially I wasn’t concerned but I’d rather be safe than sorry. I was surprised to see a couple...

Butter: water, propylene glycol, natural & artificial flavors, phosphoric acid & potassium sorbate
Almond: glycerin, propylene glycol, water, natural & artificial flavors, citric acid, potassium sorbate, sodium benzoate
Vanilla: water, propylene glycol, glycerin, alcohol, natural & artificial flavors, citric acid, phosphoric acid, BHT (preservative), potassium sorbate

So any preservatives are bad to vape period, correct? So vanilla’s probably out. I was surprised to see citric acid in almond and vanilla. If I can’t use these to mix with I’ll add them to my baking collection. This was my thought when I picked the flavors I did. If you already know if any of these other questionable ingredients are safe or not that’d help. I’ll research tomorrow most likely.

You're most welcome. But, to be fair, neither is an original idea of mine. I was only repeating what other ECFers had previously shared with me. Your thanks belongs to our great community!

Well in that case, thank you for sharing / passing on info to me! I already know this is a great forum as it’s the only one I basically came to visit and never left Shout out to the best forum community out there!

 

[IDJoel]

If you already know if any of these other questionable ingredients are safe or not that’d help.

I will be the first to say; that I don't know. I do know that BHT, potassium sorbate, and sodium benzoate, are all preservatives, and offer no benefit to vaping. Reading also tells me they are all inhalation irritants in dust (particulate) form (didn't see any comments on liquid, vapor, or gaseous forms).

It is only my opinion, but I see too many other choices, that have more of a proven track record. I don't feel any need for the potential added risk to interest me in trying these "fringe" concentrates. Maybe, if they were offering new/different flavors, I would give them more thought. As it is, the risk simply outweighs the reward, for me.

 

[NatashaTMT]

As it is, the risk simply outweighs the reward, for me.

I agree 100%! Just not worth the risk with so many great viable options. Guess I have three more flavors to bake with. I found two more LorAnn oils I also can’t use for a total of six now. I have those two larger bottles of LorAnn’s Bakery Emulsion’s which contain xanthan gum. And of course, I now have these three new ones. Looks like a good time to spend a day making candy and baking! Thanks Joel

 

[DeloresRose]

I like the Norpro mixer. I love how fast it does it’s job and the fact it omits an entire step! However, I did learn I need a bottle twice the size of the liquid capacity to keep it from spilling over when you hit the button All good though, lol! Now I know. It’s a powerful little thing too! When I saw how small it was I raised an eyebrow. But no problems there as the attachments are plenty long enough so far. I’m happy with this purchase!
LorAnns Tart & Sour brings the sour as much as possible IMO. I did a “scared” tongue test from the styrofoam seal on the bottle. It’s identical to sour candy coatings. I also added it to a two week old flavor test for RF Blue Razz. I can see how one could easily use too much if not careful. I’m thinking it’d probably be best for shake and vapes considering the malic acids potential to mute flavors. I guess it could be added after a steep in smaller batches. I like it though. So, another win there!
Two great buys you suggested! Thanks

There are some flavors that are just going to work short term, and either distort, overpower, or up and disappear over time.

My latest obsession is gummy flavor. I love what it adds, but it has no staying power. I just leave it with the juice and add a drop to the tank and swirl.

Some vanillas, I’ll mix the rest of the recipe, and when that’s steeped, add the vanilla to 15mls at a time. Vanilla mixes are the one juice I’ll have to pitch if they sit a couple months. They just taste gross to me.

 

[NatashaTMT]

I just leave it with the juice and add a drop to the tank and swirl.

I’d say this is a good idea. However, I’ve noticed that I might need to dedicate a coil / tank just to sour type vapes as Tart & Sour lingers in the coil for quite a while. This morning I have sour in my Caramallow Custard. It’s exactly what it sounds like. Taste good tart and sour? Not so much! I’ve also noticed that, just like sour candy, Tart & Sour can and will leave you with a slightly raw feeling throat if vaped too much. I think maybe it’ll be a “from time to time” treat for me. Thanks for your input!

 

[NatashaTMT]

Getting my first flavor order together actually knowing a bit what I’m doing. (Unlike the first a couple months ago.) However, I have a question. So many recipes call for Cap Super Sweet. When I first placed my big orders before starting DIY, I ordered every sweetener option Nude Nicotine offered except Monk Fruit. (Although, I’ll probably never use the EM much after a bit of experience using.) My question(s) is... can I use sucralose or another sweetener in place of super sweet to get the same taste or is it a mix of sweeteners or a secret? I feel I should order a bottle just to taste to see for myself, but, I really don’t need more sweeteners I don’t think. My DIY "mixer thinking" has changed a great deal since I ordered all these sweeteners. Experienced advice is definitely needed here!
Sweeteners I ordered from NN:
Erythritol Solution (5%)
Ethyl Maltol Solutions (15%)
Stevia Solutions (7.5%)
Sucralose Solutions (15%)

(I now only use a sweetener if absolutely necessary and at very low <1%.)

EDIT:
I just found this on Bull City in the comments section for SS. Would you all agree?...

5 Stars
A great sweetener for sure!

Posted by SkiddlzJr on 7th Jun 2017

First off, this is a 20% Sucralose solution, so less is more with this. It's twice as strong as TFA sweetener, and 4x as strong as a lot of your others. I will use 1-2 drops for a 30mL if I want a nice, sweet profile for my taste. I don't ever go over .5% for myself, as that is similar to 2% of most others. It's a good, clean sweet. It seems to gunk coils a little slower, due to that "less is more" idea. That, and if you buy this, you use less, making your bottle last longer. Win win!

 

[dc99]

I use either the stevia fron NN or FW sweetner. Mainly because they dont contain anything else.

 

[IDJoel]

I just found this on Bull City in the comments section for SS. Would you all agree?...

Yep; that's my understanding. SS is just a higher concentration of sucralose ("Sweetener"). If you have sucralose; You have the key ingredient of SS. One just needs to adjust the percentage, to accommodate the difference of concentration, between the two.

 

[NatashaTMT]

Yep; that's my understanding. SS is just a higher concentration of sucralose ("Sweetener"). If you have sucralose; You have the key ingredient of SS. One just needs to adjust the percentage, to accommodate the difference of concentration, between the two.

I just feel so much better hearing it from you or another I trust on ECF. Thank you!

 

[dc99]

SS is super sweet right? Cap super sweet Ingredients:
Water, Sucralose, Citric Acid, Sodium Citrate, Potassium Sorbate, Sodium Benzoate
I was simply looking for the cleanest I could find

 

[NatashaTMT]

SS is super sweet right? Cap super sweet Ingredients:
Water, Sucralose, Citric Acid, Sodium Citrate, Potassium Sorbate, Sodium Benzoate
I was simply looking for the cleanest I could find

Yes, SS is Super Sweet. This is good to know! For some reason, it always surprises me when I find out actual ingredients. This is the third “flavoring” I’ve seen citric acid in in about the last 24 hrs which surprised me. Reminds me components can be used in different ways for different reasons. Thanks for sharing!