DIY - pure flavour

[marianna]

Often you read that you should not use pure flavour and always dilute it.
Does someone know exactly why?
I would like to know, cause I can't imagine that pure flavour would be poison.

 

[Sugar_and_Spice]

Often you read that you should not use pure flavour and always dilute it.
Does someone know exactly why?
I would like to know, cause I can't imagine that pure flavour would be poison.

I think because they are so concentrated that it is unusable unless you do dilute it. Probably doesn't taste anything like the diluted finished product. Just my thought.

 

[marianna]

Thank you, Sugar!

If I mix 25% flavour in my 100% VG-base, the liquid is often still rather tasteless,
so I can add more flavour, but would like to know how far I can go.
Diluting with demi-water when the viscosity is too high, makes the liquid loose taste again...
so then I need to add even more flavour...

 

[Kellycat]

Too much flavor can be just as bad as too little sometimes. I used 100% VG nic mixed anywhere from 50/50 to 100% VG and use maybe 5-10% flavoring, sometimes less, and I get a rich, full flavor. 20% and it's muted to the point I can't even tell what I'm vaping.

 

[marianna]

I use 100% VG 0 mg nicotine, so lots of vape, but no throat hit and hardly any taste.
That's why I need to use 25% flavor.
Or I will go back to smoking.

 

[CreepyLady]

Well the next question that pops into mind for me is - what type of flavor are you using?

 

[Barbara21]

What we're trying to tell you is that you may be using *too much* flavoring. Oddly enough, too much doesn't make the flavor stronger, it weakens it.

But a lot depends on the flavoring you're using. (Heck I know one flavor where the manufacturer recommends 1 drop of flavoring in 10 mL of base.)

You might want to check out the DIY board, you'll find a lot of opinions on suitable flavor percentages.

 

[bpow2404]

Anyone ever try cooldrink mix concentrate? I wonder if it would work

 

[cessnapix]

I have been using and trying different Flavour art concentrates with high vg content. Personally I have seen people say they use upward of 10% for Oba-Oba. I have not been able to stand anything over 3% with any of their flavors. I may have a couple TFA flavors also and did not end up using a high amount. It takes a few days for the flavor to unleash. Steep, Steep , and Steep. Everyone has a different preference but as they are trying to say start out with the recommended and then increase by 2% in small batches. I have heard so many people saying that too high of a % is worse than not enough. My 2 cents

 

[cessnapix]

So you are ending up with a 25%pg 75%vg mix in the end correct. So if you cut down to the recommended % of flavor and add the pg for a throat hit you are at the same place with a most likely cheaper, and better tasting mix.

 

[marianna]

No, I don't end up using 25% PG, cause I am highly allergic to PG.
I only use VG-based flavors, which are very hard to find, and mix them with pharmaceutical grade VG 0 mg nic.
I did not order them from FlavorApprentice, cause those (few) non-PG flavors are based on triacetin, which does not mix very well with VG and ruined 2 of my tanks.
All other companies make non-PG-flavors based on alcohol, but that's what I can make myself; now I'm steeping burnt coffee beans in coffee liquor and pharmaceutical grade VG.
The only webshop with food grade VG-based flavors that I found, is ecblend.com, where I ordered several times.

@CreepyLady, I have tried all kinds of flavors. Conclusion: absolutely don't like any fruit flavor nor tobacco.
What I do like is: anys/anise, absinth, fennel, licorice, almond, caramel, vanille, chocolate, turkish coffee, espresso.
Menthol only sometimes, cause it makes my nose running.

 

[cessnapix]

My apologies; i assumed you where using a pg based flavor. You can not tolerate any Pg whatsoever, i.e. food coloring in cake frosting or other foods or is it just vaping it? Personally I am sensitive to pg also but can tolerate a small amount. I do not use it for a throat hit and vaping has offered me the ability to quit smoking , with nicotine, which will give you a throat hit as well as satisfy your physical craving for nicotine while you are trying to quit. Which you probably already know this. one suggestion would be to try and use some nicotine. If you have ordered from Ecblend they send out a paper with there orders about the importance of steeping for the flavors to unleash from the concentrates. Pg is suppose to be the best in releasing the flavors so you may have to try and hold on and wait even longer for your steeping process. I know how frustrating this is. Before I mixed my own, I had to basically wait a good 4 weeks with 100%vg base. About the same for 80%. I did not like fruit flavors also, or tobacco; however if you like a slightly sweet flavor and could tolerate a small amount of pg flavoring, 2%-3%, I would suggest trying (FA's)Flavourart's shade tobacco. It is very mild and does not taste like a tobacco to me. My daughter says it smells of chocolate but I dont taste it. I hope this can help some. 3ml of pg in a 100ml batch is not that much pg, if you can take it.

Good luck.

 

[Bill's Magic Vapor]

There are two great Flavor Apprentice Threads (my flavoring store) that list starting percentages for their flavorings. Almost without exception, the starting percentages are 1% to 15%, and vary by flavoring. This is an area where there is no rule of thumb. I use the starting percentages as a guide to hasten the DIY process. I could figure out the starting percentages, but may have to make 10 - 15 test batches to get there, when I can just refer to the threads and get really close to start. All of these type of threads are in the DIY forum, and there are threads like this for all the different flavor sources. Good luck. Lotsa reading on those threads, some with thousands of posts. Kept me busy for a while. I've been DIYing for 8 months now, and thought at first that I just sucked and would never be able to do this "art" right. Eventually, and because I invested too much in DIY gear, I was able to figure it out pretty well and can make very complex formulations with as many as ten different ingredients. Practice makes perfect. A starting point means considerably less practice. Good luck to you!

 

[Thrasher]

the other thing I dont see mentioned is you cant mix and go (well you can) but the flavoring needs to break down and mix into the solution, usually requires a couple days or quick steeping. otherwise you dont really taste anything.

 

[DasBluCig]

As I see it.......steeping is almost MANDATORY with DIY!!!
Some strong flavors (cinnamon, clove, mint/menthol, etc.) may provide some flavor after "melding" for a day or so...but the subtle juices - vanilla, caramel, banana, etc - nearly ALWAYS require steeping for a week OR MORE (!) for maximum flavor transfer....
MY "Lot #1" vanilla will steep for at LEAST a week before I even "test" it!! It's 100% VG base (including the TFA flavoring....) so it'll take awhile for everything to "come together"!!

 

[marianna]

Thank you all for your messages!

My stomach, liver, etc. can cope with a small amount of PG, but my skin does not tolerate any PG, so I also have to be very carefull with things like shampoo, soap, etc.
To have to use gloves for each filling of clearomizers when there is a bit of PG in the liquid, I find horrible, but when I don't, I get itchy red bubbles on my hands.
I've been DIYing since November 2012. And I have read tons of information of which a lot was incorrect.
F.e. Strawberry VG and Sticky Bun VG turn out to both contain PG.
In the beginning I used the microwave for a few seconds for steeping, then my ultrasone machine for 30 minutes, cause I read what a flavorshop wrote about steeping (sorry, don't remember the name of that webshop; it was something like: a couple of minutes at noon under a pino in Albuquerque).
I make 20ml bottles of my own mixes and if it were true that the flavor gets better after steeping, the taste of my flavors should become better/stronger after a few days, but I can't notice much (if any) difference.
Yep, I think I'm going to use nicotine again. Don't like the idea, but that would be wiser than back to smoking.

Those of you who use TFA are meaning that they use triacetin-based flavors? Triacetin softens plastic, so I think it can't be healthy for our lungs.
TFA has only:
Absinthe - I have got VG-absinthe from ecblend, and mix it with a bit of liquorice and/or menthol (from Hangsen)
Clove - I did not try this yet, think it reminds me of old fashioned tooth painkiller
Cola - I did not try this yet
Cherry Blossom - don't know what this PG-based flavor has to do in this section!
Blueberry - I have thrown away my Blueberry-liquid by Virginvapor... yuk, don't like fruit as vape.
Root Beer - don't know what kind of taste that is, but I don't like beer anyway

BTW: here they write that you can go up to 20%:
C9V Flavour Concentrate - 10ml - Cloud 9 Vaping

 

[retired1]

Moved to DIY E-Liquid

 

[Hoofhearted62]

too high flavor % kills the flavor. look at diy flavor percentages. some only good at 5-10%

 

[marianna]

too high flavor % kills the flavor. look at diy flavor percentages. some only good at 5-10%

Do you have experience with DIY and absolute 100% VG without nicotine ?

 

[Hoosier]

Do you have experience with DIY and absolute 100% VG without nicotine ?

The way flavoring works in juice is independent of nicotine, PG, or VG content. Too much will result in reduced flavor and/or the taste being much different than it smells.

Here in the States we have a product called KoolAid that is a packet of powered flavoring and sweetener. You mix it with a large quantity of water to make a soft drink. It was a common dare, back in my youth, to challenge a friend to eat the powder itself. It's nasty without being diluted. Flavorings are like that, too much is not a good thing.

That's the main reason I wrote the Flavoring Levels blog, so folks could learn from my mistakes and how to tell too much from too little and adjust to "just right".