DNA40 vs SX350j

[Nibiru2012]

Evolv is going to have to change their marketing and engineering philosophies in order to maintain or not lose their market share.

Yihi has essentially "thrown down the gauntlet" and Evolv must adapt.

Vlad1 is very correct in the fact that firmware updates have been around now for several decades. Heck there is even firmware updates for my Logitech wireless trackball and wireless keyboard! Plantronics has firmware updating software for all their Bluetooth products.

I cannot see any excuse that Evolv could come up with not to go to firmware upgradable chipsets. It is definitely not in their best interest that's for sure.
Even Phil Busardo mentioned that in his lengthy SX Mini M-Class review.

 

[dr g]

Then again their previous products didn't have them and their marketshare was fine. Generally they win on innovation, functionality and quality. Evolv's philosophy never has been and probably never will be to ship an unfinished product and address issues with future updates, and use updates to add major functionality (eg. almost doubling power output). They create boards with no intention to need to update the software. As a result, their DNA20 and 30 products have never had or needed significant software updates, and the DNA40 has only had minor software changes over its lifespan.

As an owner of several V1 DNA40s, I feel no pain whatsoever not having the latest software. I have never felt compelled to upgrade to later model software despite easy access and labor involved. Frankly even my beta boards are in the same position. The functionality and quality remains top of market and has been that way since launch.

That said, they will probably implement it in future products as the operation is no longer as simple as the original boards, there are other external pressures such as the FDA deadline, and they learned that no matter how correctly they do things, sometimes the public wants it done wrong, and they may have to implement something to address that.

 

[retird]

I think Evolv is increasing market share. If you look closely they are marketing electronics to China. It started with Innokin and now another China company is marketing a device with authentic Evolv products also and so are companies in many other countries. Evolv is about innovation and that innovation usually within 6 months just happens to appear in China produced technology. So however you want to cut it Evolv deserves credit for bringing new technology to the vape world. They brought Variable wattage with the Darwin and everyone called it a fad. They brought the DNA12, DNA20, the Kick, Kick 2, and DNA30. China followed with their versions. Then the DNA40 came and again folks called it a fad. You see the results and again China followed. USB update ability is not new, as we see, and so China didn't give anything new but only integrated it into a vape device for various reasons. I give credit to Yihi for adding that to their line even though joyetech was first to bring usb updatability years ago. Will Evolv add that? Who knows, but if they do it, it will fit their business model and within their planning of existing and new technology I think. Evolv currently makes no devices as they are an OEM but just count the devices that use their product. More devices now than ever before are using Evolv both in the US and in other countries worldwide.

Did Evolv's DNA40 have a few bugs..... yes..... Did Yihi also have a few bugs..... yes..... nature of the beast I think....

 

[Rikk]

I love watching reviews and I watch many. But in the end it's just one person's opinion based on the experiences they had.

Sometimes I agree with their decisions and other times I don't. And that's based on my own experiences. Sometimes they jive with the reviewers and other times they don't.

I use a lot of what they show us to help guide me but not decide for me. I use this forum for the exact same reason.

Just because a reviewer has had a bad experience with an atty or mod or any vaping device, or they just don't like it doesn't mean that I'm not going to. I mean no disrespect when I say this but reviewers are not the vaping God's and sometimes a lot of this vape stuff is just as new to them and they struggle with it just like the rest of us.

I know this is all based around the DNA vs the SX but that brings me to my point. I know those of you who have the SX love it and I have a DNA and love it. My experience with it has been stellar, I've had zero issues with it and it handles nickel and TP perfectly for me. Regardless of what any reviewer has said. I would recommend my device to anyone based on my own experiences not on someone else's.

I never really did like the 'mine is bigger than yours' or I mean 'mine is better than yours'. Because to me it's not, it's just different.

And don't get me wrong, I love watching reviews. They get so many new and awesome toys. Sort of makes me want to be a reviewer.... NOT

 

[Rossum]

Evolv's philosophy never has been and probably never will be to ship an unfinished product and address issues with future updates, and use updates to add major functionality (eg. almost doubling power output). They create boards with no intention to need to update the software. As a result, their DNA20 and 30 products have never had or needed significant software updates, and the DNA40 has only had minor software changes over its lifespan.

I'm going to take the opposite side on this: Forget the question of adding features for a moment. It's downright unrealistic for anyone to think they can make embedded software that's entirely free of bugs, especially when a product is first released into the wild. No beta test program will find them all, but real-world users eventually will. If the firmware in the product is updateable, then there's at least a chance that the bugs those users find can be fixed. If not, well, they're stuck with any bug(s) forever, and it's also an order of magnitude more difficult to field-test potential fixes. Oh, and please don't say the DNA20 or DNA30 didn't have at any bugs; they most certainly had at least one. Run them long enough without a reset and the atty resistance reading will eventually get "stuck" (most often on 0.0 ohms). This is not a big deal on a mod that can be reset by removing the battery, but on a mod where the battery isn't removable, it's a bloody pain. Anyway, I do think Evolv's refusal (so far at least) to allow the firmware in their boards to be updated is a valid point of criticism from the consumers' perspective.

That said, I deeply respect Evolv for their innovation in this industry, and the very first DNA40 I built the weekend after they were released last October is still the mod I vape the most. It's worked pretty much flawlessly for me, but I don't push it very hard.

 

[Frenchfry1942]

Thanks all. Being something of a former teacher/guide, I like learning. I am still using 30-level stuff, but I will be able to make a better decision when the time comes.

 

[dr g]

I'm going to take the opposite side on this: Forget the question of adding features for a moment. It's downright unrealistic for anyone to think they can make embedded software that's entirely free of bugs, especially when a product is first released into the wild. No beta test program will find them all, but real-world users eventually will. If the firmware in the product is updateable, then there's at least a chance that the bugs those users find can be fixed. If not, well, they're stuck with any bug(s) forever, and it's also an order of magnitude more difficult to field-test potential fixes. Oh, and please don't say the DNA20 or DNA30 didn't have at any bugs; they most certainly had at least one. Run them long enough without a reset and the atty resistance reading will eventually get "stuck" (most often on 0.0 ohms). This is not a big deal on a mod that can be reset by removing the battery, but on a mod where the battery isn't removable, it's a bloody pain. Anyway, I do think Evolv's refusal (so far at least) to allow the firmware in their boards to be updated is a valid point of criticism from the consumers' perspective.

That said, I deeply respect Evolv for their innovation in this industry, and the very first DNA40 I built the weekend after they were released last October is still the mod I vape the most. It's worked pretty much flawlessly for me, but I don't push it very hard.

Well whether or not it's realistic, that's their philosophy, or it has been. I believe simplicity and ease of use is a core philosophy; to them it's all about making ecigarettes as foolproof as cigarettes, Brandon has specifically used the example of someone elderly (ostensibly non-technical) being able to use the device. Firmware updating does not fit within that paradigm.

But it's really no longer an option, at the very least someone other than them needs to be able to flash the firmware (e.g. dealers).

 

[Eric Auer]

An other thing too keep in mind is how now there will be options for people to mod Firmware.

That can be a good or bad thing, depending who does it.

I'm sure in a while we will see many downloadble Firmwares from other enthusiasts.

Could be one reason Evolv does not allow it, they do not want people to mess with their code.

Eric

 

[Rossum]

Having a device be field updateable does not equate with the firmware being moddable by others.

 

[peraspera]

Whereas In the DNA 40 review he had numerous functional erors and inconsistencies not attributed to anything but the device itself.

Garbage in, garbage out. A reviewer that does not fully grasp the concept that using a build like this to review temperature protection goes on my "totally ignore" list on the subject.

 

[Vlad1]

Garbage in, garbage out. A reviewer that does not fully grasp the concept that using a build like this to review temperature protection goes on my "totally ignore" list on the subject.

"functional erors and inconsistencies not attributed to anything but the device itself.".

Regardless of the build the following errors to name a few were present and recorded on the DNA 40. If you somehow can explain these away with the coil build please do so.

Not detecting the correct resistance of an Atty even after removing it, firing it on a correctly functioning device then placing it back on a DNA 40 which still detected incorrect resistance
Irregular battery bar
Sticking in power or temp mode
Scrambled screens

Your certainly entitled to ignore whoever you wish. That does not diminish the failures detected and reported on with the DNA 40

 

[a tez]

Damn that is an awful build lol.

 

[dr g]

"functional erors and inconsistencies not attributed to anything but the device itself.".

Regardless of the build the following errors to name a few were present and recorded on the DNA 40. If you somehow can explain these away with the coil build please do so.

Not detecting the correct resistance of an Atty even after removing it, firing it on a correctly functioning device then placing it back on a DNA 40 which still detected incorrect resistance
Irregular battery bar
Sticking in power or temp mode
Scrambled screens

Your certainly entitled to ignore whoever you wish. That does not diminish the failures detected and reported on with the DNA 40

Only one of these things is an actual issue. Which illustrates something about the DNA40 that should be well-noted: There is a LOT of misinformation out there about it, some of it perpetuated by well-known personalities such as the previously referenced reviewer.

 

[Eric Auer]

Having a device be field updateable does not equate with the firmware being moddable by others.

But it does.

As soon as you have downloadable code that needs to be applied to a firmware code you can hack it.

And reverse it as well, meaning you already have a pipeline so you can pull whatever you want out of it.

Far more secure devices than a Mod chip have been done.

Firmware - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Eric

 

[retird]

If you listen to what was said in the DNA review, by the reviewer, many of the thumbs down comments went to temperature protection in general as a technology. The lengthy conversation of nickel wire in the thumbs down discussion goes to any device using temperature protection. He spent a lot of time saying what he thought Evolv should have done (troubleshooting guide on web site, inform us as to what they were doing, and etc.) Noted that none of this is on Yihi's web site either. Garbage in, garbage out....misinformation abounds.... many posters in this thread have a much better grasp of the technology than the reviewer IMO...

 

[Vapenstein]

my only gripe with the DNA 40 is that battery charge mysteriously declines on a device that sits idle for several hours with the battery left in. Other than that, it's accurate and does exactly what I need it to with no unexpected behavior. I like the chip just fine, but I do think Evolv needs to release a version that's at least 60w so that it's more useful with drippers in non-TC mode.

 

[retird]

The V4 I just grabbed a few days ago hasn't exhibited that. Mine set all night and no decline. It has the latest firmware according to the description on Hyperion's web site.

 

[dr g]

my only gripe with the DNA 40 is that battery charge mysteriously declines on a device that sits idle for several hours with the battery left in. Other than that, it's accurate and does exactly what I need it to with no unexpected behavior. I like the chip just fine, but I do think Evolv needs to release a version that's at least 60w so that it's more useful with drippers in non-TC mode.

This is not something DNA40s do. A poorly built mod might do that, or a malfunctioning one.

 

[Vlad1]

many posters in this thread have a much better grasp of the technology than the reviewer IMO

Many posters in this thread will happily dismiss, scrambled screens, Stuck modes, Reading resistance incorrectly, inconsistent temperature, varying battery bar and a host of other device failures as user error or it's by design or a feature. It's really quite ridiculous to dismiss these problems or to trivialize them.

If another manufacture had even one of these problems these same posters would be having a bashing party. And it is these posters you speak of that have ruined yet another thread IMO as this is no longer a DNA 40 VS Sx350j but Now a DNA 40 has issues how can I trivialize them or blame them on the user or mislead thread. All hail DNA 40

 

[retird]

I will only mention the issues you speak of to say this... how many occur on the latest versions with the latest firmware? One can't trivialize the updates either....compare the dated issues you speak of with the latest firmware version and tell me that nothing has been done...

This is probably the most civil XXX vs. YYY thread I've seen on ECF (and only a few survive without being closed).....to say anybody has ruined it is just one opinion that I don't share...we should continue the conversation with the latest facts to compare and not dated information IMO. The V4 I just received last Wednesday has not shown any of the dated problems you want to tell others still exist.

We have not had the discussion yet about all the bugs that folks are mentioning with the J board (SX Mini M class). Hopefully they will be discussed in fairness for comparison purposes.