Do extreme vapers turn off smokers from making the switch?

Status
Not open for further replies.

BoomerFZ1

Super Member
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Oct 21, 2014
414
236
Pittsburgh, Pa
Man I really hope the statement "ProTank style atomizers becoming less" is completely wrong. As hard as I've tried I can't enjoy lung hits and I honestly believe vaping at sub-ohms changes the flavor of my juices. I don't begrudge anyone their vaping style, but I'm fairly certain M2Lers will continue to have options as well what with the popularity of the nautilus and Genitanks.
 

BlkWolfMidnight

Super Member
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Nov 20, 2012
736
819
Virginia
The "Pro Tank Style atomizers" won't be going anywhere I suspect unless something else comes out to trump it (usually visual appeal changes). The issue is the market demand as manufactures are trying to keep up with how to please the sub ohm crowd and still cater to the clients that don't want that which is offering a challenge. Aspire I will say did very well with the options they put out and I suspect they will survive this wave.

I myself notice that high end RBA's don't move in stores but in reality two factors come to play here.
Experience level required to maintain the atomizer is not for anyone new, although it looks easy enough to do so the reality of it that its not and that will drive people off.
Price point for these atomizers is high, for some unreasonably high in my book (200 bucks for an atomizer, it had best make my morning coffee too), lets not forget the mod that you need to put them on which ranges from 60 on up dollars plus the batteries and charger is another 50 or 60 bucks. The base line is its way too costly to jump in to that unless your 100% sure that's what you want.

This thread is interesting as we are seeing all sides come out, I'm curious to hear the debates from all sides to include the Cliques and Niche groups. I myself sit on any side and I'll just enjoy the show in truth.

I will admit that the only issues I have with cloud chasing is its by nature dangerous, if you don't have the issue with the battery venting (no, its not cool to brag about venting a battery) then you've the issue with superheated vapor being drawn in to your lungs which anyone that cooks knows that steam will do a good job of doing the same to your lungs. I can recall a time at a local B&M (won't post the name out of respect) where someone was bragging about "Aww man, great job on winning, and you burned your lips pulling that off", I left shaking my head and wondering how that can be "Cool".
 
Last edited:

Niten13

Super Member
Verified Member
Nov 18, 2014
718
950
Tigard, OR, USA
I was up snowboarding last weekend and walked out to the side of the building where everyone has to smoke, one of the lodge employees was standing next to me while I pulled out my fogger on top of my IPV3 and took a couple pulls. He just looked over and said wow that smells amazing! I had a couple extra Delrin tips in a pocket so I put one on and let him hit it a couple times. He instantly wanted one, so I explained to him that it was a rebuildable tank and not exactly a beginner setup. Gave him my number and told him to look for a protank mini and vision spinner.

Anywayssss... two days later I get a txt from him with a pic of his PT and Spinner with some juice in it! Also directed him here to ECF (always do) but I don't know if he made it.
 

BrushyHillGuide

Senior Member
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Sep 1, 2014
276
286
Sabinal, TX
It's definitely a turn-off to traditional smokers who might be considering changing to vaping. As others have said, walking into a fogged out vape shop is not encouraging, to most people. I do enjoy cloud chasing and so I NOW enjoy a fogged out shop but it turned me around several times when I considered vaping. I ended up going to cigalikes online because, as a transitioning smoker, I wanted something that looked more like transitional smoking. When did an analog produce a giant cloud? NEVER.

People a missing out because I think big clouds FEEL more like a good drag on a cigarette but impressions are everything. If stores want to cater to smokers transitioning to e-cigs or beginning vapers, don't fog your shop. If you're focusing on the advanced vaping market, by all means - fog it out!!!! If I were to open a vape shop, I'd have it cloud free on the floor with a dripper/fogger lounge in the back with a big glass window between. Lots of vape shops seem to be owned/staffed by people with loads of vaping experience and ZERO business experience.
 

beckdg

ECF Guru
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Oct 1, 2013
11,018
35,705
TN
The "Pro Tank Style atomizers" won't be going anywhere I suspect unless something else comes out to trump it (usually visual appeal changes). The issue is the market demand as manufactures are trying to keep up with how to please the sub ohm crowd and still cater to the clients that don't want that which is offering a challenge. Aspire I will say did very well with the options they put out and I suspect they will survive this wave.

I myself notice that high end RBA's don't move in stores but in reality two factors come to play here.
Experience level required to maintain the atomizer is not for anyone new, although it looks easy enough to do so the reality of it that its not and that will drive people off.
Price point for these atomizers is high, for some unreasonably high in my book (200 bucks for an atomizer, it had best make my morning coffee too), lets not forget the mod that you need to put them on which ranges from 60 on up dollars plus the batteries and charger is another 50 or 60 bucks. The base line is its way too costly to jump in to that unless your 100% sure that's what you want.

This thread is interesting as we are seeing all sides come out, I'm curious to hear the debates from all sides to include the Cliques and Niche groups. I myself sit on any side and I'll just enjoy the show in truth.

I will admit that the only issues I have with cloud chasing is its by nature dangerous, if you don't have the issue with the battery venting (no, its not cool to brag about venting a battery) then you've the issue with superheated vapor being drawn in to your lungs which anyone that cooks knows that steam will do a good job of doing the same to your lungs. I can recall a time at a local B&M (won't post the name out of respect) where someone was bragging about "Aww man, great job on winning, and you burned your lips pulling that off", I left shaking my head and wondering how that can be "Cool".

A lot of common misconceptions here.

RDAs are very simple to maintain. Much easier than a protank with the slightest quirk.

The problem isn't maintaining them or the work involved. It's having a little bit of working knowledge and understanding of electrical concepts and battery care and capabilities.

Any village idiot can make a coil and insert a wick.

____________________

Mouth hitters, m2l, mouth to nose or straight lung inhalers... doesn't matter. There's an rda for you no matter how you do or don't inhale. There are also plenty of RDAs that can run the whole gambit or a wide variety due to air adjustability.

If you're new and not ready for lung hits, you can always start with an rda with a tight draw and drill it out to grow with you. I did...

_________________________

20 amp legit batteries can be had for as little as 6 bucks

Xtar makes chargers in the sub $20 range

Mech clones start at around $25

A decent starter rda on a budget can be anywhere from $3 for a smok to $20 for a youde. Many of the clones of the high ends are good quality for just over that also.

_______________________

The temp at which juice vaporizes doesn't change for different equipment or resistances. One can change the temperature feel in the mouth with atty size, proximity of the coils in relation to the mouth, air flow, etc.

But if someone gets burned vaping in any way they're DOING SOME THING SERIOUSLY WRONG.

The SURFACE AREA that vapor is created on should be the major difference between a cloud chaser and a puff maker setup. Temperatures on those surfaces should be near identical for the same juices.

___________________

Battery venting...
Is exclusively an issue of over working a battery.
The easiest batteries to over work are cigalikes and ego styles.
The most common batteries to vent, catch fire or explode in vaping are egos.

The batteries people should be using in their mods take a lot of abuse, are near impossible to make vent and almost never catch fire when they do.

IMR safe chemistry or INR hybrid...

Most units with enclosed non removable batteries ARE NOT safe chemistry and pose a MUCH HIGHER RISK.

IE; batteries usually first timers and those who never go advanced use... batteries that may be over worked by simply plugging them into their included charger if they've been sitting on the shelf too long.

Not to mention they're chargers typically utilize very little if any safety features.

And explosion is a function of gas building up beyond the capabilities of its enclosure to hold the pressure. Advanced mods have vent holes to avoid this usually. As do advanced batteries have a cap that will open under little pressure to let the gas escape.

This usually is not the case with egos and cigalikes.

Sent from my device.
 

LMS62

Ultra Member
ECF Veteran
Oct 5, 2014
1,067
2,793
Mesa, AZ
It's definitely a turn-off to traditional smokers who might be considering changing to vaping. As others have said, walking into a fogged out vape shop is not encouraging, to most people. I do enjoy cloud chasing and so I NOW enjoy a fogged out shop but it turned me around several times when I considered vaping. I ended up going to cigalikes online because, as a transitioning smoker, I wanted something that looked more like transitional smoking. When did an analog produce a giant cloud? NEVER.

People a missing out because I think big clouds FEEL more like a good drag on a cigarette but impressions are everything. If stores want to cater to smokers transitioning to e-cigs or beginning vapers, don't fog your shop. If you're focusing on the advanced vaping market, by all means - fog it out!!!! If I were to open a vape shop, I'd have it cloud free on the floor with a dripper/fogger lounge in the back with a big glass window between. Lots of vape shops seem to be owned/staffed by people with loads of vaping experience and ZERO business experience.
Perfectly stated and couldn't agree more with the entire post! Unfortunately, not all, but many vape shops I have gone in to remind me of a head shop from the 70s. I have been vaping for a few years, so I'm used to it.....but if I was a new vaper, the atmosphere was turn me off.
 

ian-field

Super Member
ECF Veteran
Dec 3, 2013
443
121
Hertfordshire
First off, I have to say, I'm not fishing for reactions with provocative statements. I'm genuinely curious about other folks thoughts on this. I love blowing clouds, and I'm not alone. Cloud competitions have become normal, RDAs are becoming more popular with ProTank style atomizers becoming less. I've had smokers come up to me and ask about vaping while I used my Aerotank Mini and an EVOD, but that's never happened while I blew clouds with an RDA outside of bars and whatnot. I've heard that it can be intimidating, and I can see why.

There's no way I'm faulting anyone for cloud chasing, I don't like being called one but I probably am. When I smoked, the person who got me to switch was using an original protank, and while I hadn't seen anyone use a mechanical mod, I don't think it would have appealed to me as a smoking alternative. So I'd like to know what you guys think, does extreme vaping repel smokers from making the switch?

Thanks guys!

There is a perception that its an elitist and expensive hobby - and the people who like to fog their local pub like an old style working mens social club present a wide open target for the zealots who want it banned along with smoking.
 

beckdg

ECF Guru
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Oct 1, 2013
11,018
35,705
TN
I think blowing clouds is unnecessary, a waste of money, and possibly dangerous to your health. I vape to get the same buzz I did on cigarettes and it doesn't take a cloud to do it. To each his own I guess.

i respectfully and adamantly disagree.

i'm willing to bet i spend less money on juice than you do... including pretty expensive, premium nic, "boutique juices" as a treat from time to time and providing for 5 vapers including myself.

even if not, i still spend less on vaping than i did on cigs... including a full laboratory in my bedroom, high end mods and atties for everyone, PIF equipment and supplies to last me the next few years supplying the 5 of us... on 14 months worth of my cig money with cash to spare.....

mouth fill, texture and high nic are important for my success. i've tried "the best" of what other vapers tend to hold dear to their success. it didn't work for me. i vape at 50mg/ml and 0.2 ohm day in and day out. i just can't put up with taking a long draw to fill my lungs and mouth with that texture and thickness that it takes with the likes of a clearo, carto tank, kayfun, etc.. it creates the same anxiety that's pushed me back to cigs time and time again. i have no patience, i guess.

but... you are right on one thing... to each their own. i wouldn't suggest my way of vaping to any new vaper. i had to work up to it carefully while battling stress and withdrawal. i wouldn't wish that on anyone. though... i wouldn't wish them to be woozy from overdose as they ween down to their optimum vape even moreso.
 

ian-field

Super Member
ECF Veteran
Dec 3, 2013
443
121
Hertfordshire
i respectfully and adamantly disagree.

i'm willing to bet i spend less money on juice than you do... including pretty expensive, premium nic, "boutique juices" as a treat from time to time and providing for 5 vapers including myself.

even if not, i still spend less on vaping than i did on cigs... including a full laboratory in my bedroom, high end mods and atties for everyone, PIF equipment and supplies to last me the next few years supplying the 5 of us... on 14 months worth of my cig money with cash to spare.....

mouth fill, texture and high nic are important for my success. i've tried "the best" of what other vapers tend to hold dear to their success. it didn't work for me. i vape at 50mg/ml and 0.2 ohm day in and day out. i just can't put up with taking a long draw to fill my lungs and mouth with that texture and thickness that it takes with the likes of a clearo, carto tank, kayfun, etc.. it creates the same anxiety that's pushed me back to cigs time and time again. i have no patience, i guess.

but... you are right on one thing... to each their own. i wouldn't suggest my way of vaping to any new vaper. i had to work up to it carefully while battling stress and withdrawal. i wouldn't wish that on anyone. though... i wouldn't wish them to be woozy from overdose as they ween down to their optimum vape even moreso.

Great billowing clouds are a danger to vaping itself.

The bigger the clouds - the bigger the target for zealots who want it banned!
 

beckdg

ECF Guru
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Oct 1, 2013
11,018
35,705
TN
Great billowing clouds are a danger to vaping itself.

The bigger the clouds - the bigger the target for zealots who want it banned!

:blink:

hogwash.

period.

it's not about the size of the clouds for these folks. it's the fact it exists.

take it from someone who blows these clouds in public... and supplies a whole family of vapers that do not blow clouds... primarily carto users...

they get the same looks i do. though, it seems more often. they're more brazen about their approach in public places... because they don't think they need to be discreet thanks to the "smoke anywhere" adds on the t.v..

ETA: this past Friday i was traveling along the PA turnpike. i went in to a service plaza to get some coffee. i noticed a store clerk vaping behind the counter. seeing another vaper in the wild doesn't happen every day. so i approached him to talk vaping. as i approached, 2 more clerks took a vape. 3 store clerks out of 4 behind the counter vaping. the 4th went out to have a smoke. they were all vaping out in the open, in a building full of patrons and onlookers while serving customers. they were carrying egos on lanyards. this is what i see everywhere i go across the country... and i cross the country typically a couple times a month.

this time it was new stanton service plaza on the west bound side of route 70 in PA. a very busy plaza...
 
Last edited:

wesson

Senior Member
ECF Veteran
Jan 5, 2015
277
141
Ontario, Canada
Let me start by saying that I'm neither pro nor anti cloud vaping; to each his or her own. I don't believe that huge billowing clouds of vapor will turn off those folks that may want to make the switch from analogues to e-cigs, but the concept could be a bit intimidating. Sorta like taking out your pride and joy 14' aluminum boat and 20HP outboard to a bass derby where everyone else is running $30K Pro Nitro boats. When I got turned on to vaping or using e-cigs, I did so because I wanted to STOP smoking and the traditional methods - patches, gum, medication, willpower etc. - didn't work. I started out using cigalikes and quickly graduated to e-go type units. That's where I'm at right now. I don't need or want huge plumes of vapor; for me its all about taste, flavour and throat hit with enough vapor to simulate the analogue cig experience; its working. The other thing that I noticed about myself is that I want to be a bit more discrete when I vape. I don't want to advertise that I use e-cigs, so a smaller unit that has the appearance of a cig or cigar fits my needs. I'm not sure why I feel this way, but I do. I guess it's similar to how skiers once viewed snowboarders. When snowboards first hit the slopes, most skiers viewed snowboarders as young, undisciplined, radical, pot smoking, reprobates, thumbing their noses at traditional ways.

Since becoming part of the e-cig community, I've learned that e-cigs are much more than a potential quite smoking aid, its a wonderful hobby where you can rebuild systems, tweak systems, mix and match, make your own juice, develop recipes and, yes, chase the biggest vapor clouds on earth.

Vape on.

Peter

BTW, I ski and snowboard :D
 
Last edited:

beckdg

ECF Guru
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Oct 1, 2013
11,018
35,705
TN
I wonder how Smokers relate to someone when they see them Holding something that Looks like a D-Cell Maglite blowing a Huge Cloud? Verses someone holding a Pen Style PV blowing a Small Cloud?

vs. what we all really wanted to work... a cigarette we can hold between 2 fingers or in between our lips that makes vapor while we go on about our day with our hands free.

though, between the added dangers and effective rate of smaller, "easier" units, we both know where many successful vapers will end up.
 

zoiDman

My -0^10 = Nothing at All*
Supporting Member
ECF Veteran
Apr 16, 2010
41,599
1
84,660
So-Cal
vs. what we all really wanted to work... a cigarette we can hold between 2 fingers or in between our lips that makes vapor while we go on about our day with our hands free.

though, between the added dangers and effective rate of smaller, "easier" units, we both know where many successful vapers will end up.

I know Some people are going to Flip Out when I say this. But do you know what was my Favorite e-Cigarette?

The Blu.

I pull it out ever once and Awhile and just Smile. Perfect Size. Sexy Shiny Black Finish. And of Course, that Blue Led at the End. The Perfect e-Cigarette.

Except that it Only Lasted about 40 Minutes before either the Battery Died or the 7 Drop Cart went Dry. Or Both.

I dunno if Cloud Chasers influence Smokers views on e-Cigarettes. But I think the Size of Most APV's do.

My Motivation when I switched to e-Cigarettes was to Quit Smoking. And I didn't want something that looked like a Garage Door Opener. Or and Adult "Toy". I wanted something that looked like a Cigarette.

And Cloud Chasing wasn't my Goal. Because I didn't sit around with my Friends and see who could Blow the Biggest Cloud from an Analog.

What is Seen is Fun or "Cool" can be Completely Different for a Person who has Smoked for a Few Years. Than for someone like myself who smoked for about 35 years.

Everyone is Different when it comes to e-Cigarettes use. So I see No Reason why the Same thing shouldn't apply to Smokers Views of Watching Cloud Chasers chase clouds.
 

beckdg

ECF Guru
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Oct 1, 2013
11,018
35,705
TN
I know Some people are going to Flip Out when I say this. But do you know what was my Favorite e-Cigarette?

The Blu.

I pull it out ever once and Awhile and just Smile. Perfect Size. Sexy Shiny Black Finish. And of Course, that Blue Led at the End. The Perfect e-Cigarette.

Except that it Only Lasted about 40 Minutes before either the Battery Died or the 7 Drop Cart went Dry. Or Both.

I dunno if Cloud Chasers influence Smokers views on e-Cigarettes. But I think the Size of Most APV's do.

My Motivation when I switched to e-Cigarettes was to Quit Smoking. And I didn't want something that looked like a Garage Door Opener. Or and Adult "Toy". I wanted something that looked like a Cigarette.

And Cloud Chasing wasn't my Goal. Because I didn't sit around with my Friends and see who could Blow the Biggest Cloud from an Analog.

What is Seen is Fun or "Cool" can be Completely Different for a Person who has Smoked for a Few Years. Than for someone like myself who smoked for about 35 years.

Everyone is Different when it comes to e-Cigarettes use. So I see No Reason why the Same thing shouldn't apply to Smokers Views of Watching Cloud Chasers chase clouds.

couldn't have said it better myself.

though there is such a stigma with cloud chasing (and this may just be my perception of goings on of this site) that it seems that "cloud making" for the purpose of not smoking may be equated to "cloud chasing" 'round these parts.
 

AndriaD

Reviewer / Blogger
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Jan 24, 2014
21,253
50,806
64
LawrencevilleGA
angryvaper.crypticsites.com
I can tell you what is a turn off to would be vaper's as well as seasoned vaper's, that's walking into a vape shop that has the nasty cloud of fog hanging in it. A new shop opened near my home in Ohio and at that point I had been vaping over a year including cloud blowing but I walked through the door and the vapor was so thick I couldn't see the back of the store. Too bad as they had an awesome selection of gear as well as a mind blowing amount of high end juices. I just couldn't stand being in the middle of a fog box trying to do business with a half dozen cloud chasers with their sub-ohm mechanicals trying to out cloud each other.

I tried again to stop by one afternoon and I could see the fog through the windows from the parking lot so I left without even going in. Finally one morning I got there before all the hangers rolled out of bed and fogged the place up. The air was clear but the windows were a nasty mess after having only been open for a few weeks.

I have witnessed people coming into other vape shops for the first time and the presence of the hangers blowing clouds is very intimidating to them not to mention the uncomfortable feeling being in a fogged up retail business. No the fog is not as harmful as second hand smoke however people looking to make the switch for the first time are still accustomed to the stigma surrounding second hand smoke and as such view the fog in the store the same as the smoke coming from the smoking area at work that the non smokers loathe having to be in the same zip code. Do they really want to be part of this??

If the first time I walked into the vape shop they had been all clouded up and blowing their smoke signals I would have most likely walked out and walked away from vaping. I know now what is in that fog and understand that it's much less evil than the smoky back room at the pool hall but the visual aspect is still not pleasing. Look at photo's from vaping conventions, they look nasty from the smog hanging in the air. People who are new to vaping don't know the difference between the vapor coming from an RDA and the smog hanging over Los Angeles. If they can't get to the counter to be led down the path of a healthier choice then they will never know the difference and as such will spread false (hearsay) information about vaping.

I agree with all that, but for me it's about much more than just the sight of the fog -- it DOES have a smell, and when you're trying to find a flavor you like, 20 other scents hanging in the air all around you just muddles your nose until you really can't taste anything -- Steam Cigs is like that, near me; for a while I would go to The Vaping Shack, much nearer me, since I could actually taste something there, but recently that one is all fogged up too. Thank god I'm starting to do the DIY thing, because trying to taste anything in a multi-scented fog haze is impossible.

Andria
 

sofarsogood

Vaping Master
ECF Veteran
Oct 12, 2014
5,553
14,168
I was clueless about vaping until last summer when a bunch of enduro riders showed up in a parking lot and one of them pulled out a silver shoe box with a pipe fitting on one end and started blowing smoke with it and I thought, is that dorky or what? A month later I was puffing on a pen style device that a buddy at work hooked me up with. A week later it was an N mini on a spinner 2 and 5 weeks after that, the day I stopped smoking cigs, I got one of those silver shoe boxes with the pipe fitting and that's mostly what I vape. But it turns out that usually I don't want more vapor than 8 watts can produce so my silver shoe box fires an N mini at 8 watts.

I started my brother at Christmas on a 20w iStick with N mini on top vaping at 7 watts and he's been doing 4 cigs for a month.

I think the beginner-intermediate-advanced progression is necessary for a lot of reasons. When I coach people I say, don't worry about quitting, just focus on learning how to vape. If you want a cigarette have one but keep vaping no matter what. Eventually you'll lose interest in cigarettes. When that happens the push to zero cigs won't be that hard. And as long as you vape or have access to vaping there will be no relapse.

It's mildly annoying to walk into the vape shop and the windows are sweaty and the 'hangers' have fogged the place up. I don't care that much but I think it dosen't help sell the newbies.
 
Last edited:

Ken_A

Vaping Master
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Jan 13, 2013
4,876
28,345
Florida
The main thing keeping smokers from vaping is all the lies printed and televised about the "harm" of vaping.

The best thing to do is stop blaiming vapers of any type and start blaming the main causes.
Big tobacco wants regulations that put small businesses out of business so they can continue to add crap to the eliquid "to make it more effective".
Big pharma wants vaping regulated out of existance so they can sell products that temporarily stop smoking.
Big medical wants vaping banned so they can keep making money from smoking related illness.

Personally, I think we have enough to worry about than this tri-monthly question about "extreme vapers" "cloud chasers", etc.
I'm neither of those myself, and do not see a problem with it.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Users who are viewing this thread