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Yes, that’s what I intend to do, thanks. It was just a matter of getting used to not inhaling, but it tastes just as fine, and from what I’ve read, I don’t have to worry about getting the nicotine into my system either (I don’t need much anyway, I vape low nic juices, 3ml max).
No, I wasn’t aware of that, but it makes sense, since I’ve tested high VG juices that also gave me problems. When I started vaping and had this hay fever like symptoms, I went out and got a bunch of different ratio juices, from high VG to 50:50, to high PG. The symptoms got better the less PG there was, and there was also some sort of “break-in” period, after which I had less problems. Also, as an additional test, I bought a bottle of pure VG (with a minimal amount of nicotine), and I don’t have these symptoms when I’m vaping this. Do you call hay fever like symptoms a “wildly strong sensitivity”? What’s so special about it? I seem to recall posts from other people, having similar reactions to vaping.
And I’m not going to explain why I’m seeing different doctors regularly, but if there is a cause and effect relationship and I can reliably reproduce it, why would that even matter?
I’m trying to understand what you mean by that: Do you think I made this up?
See my answer below (but I’m not using nickel)
Yes, I’m slightly allergic to NI, stuff like belt buckles and watch bands, so easy to avoid. But I’m not using NI coils (yet), I was contemplating using nickel because my Ss316 coils gunk up really fast, and I had used one NI coil about 6 months ago, which I remembered to stay clean much longer. And I didn’t feel anything that I hadn’t also felt with SS and Kanthal coils, so I’ll probably give NI a try in the near future. But so far I’ve used SS316.
Hmmm...I can vape pure VG and won’t get any hay fever symptoms, I get these with high PG juices.
Exactly, many posters seem to have missed this point, thank you! I’m obviously open to suggestions, but the relationship between cause and effect just seems to obvious to ignore. Plus I can reproduce it.
That is interesting: apart from my bottle of VG (which I haven’t used in a few weeks), both of my juices are pretty sweet. I guess I could have a trial period of vaping (and inhaling) pure VG for a couple of days, see what happens...
Generally speaking, I don’t see a downside to not-inhaling: I’m not losing any of the tasting experience, and even if I’m wrong and start having the same shortness of breath again, I certainly won’t regret to being used to not inhaling anymore....
Sounds great! It's working for many of us, not just me by any means, so I don't see why it wouldn't hopefully work for you, too. I hope it resolves the issues for you.
You're welcome! Retired teacher now, so the habit of reading everything very carefully has stuck with me. Wouldn't have found as many errors in papers I'd graded if I didn't read carefully!
The relationship seems to definitely be there, to me, too, especially since you can reproduce it. That's 1 of the main criteria for establishing any possible C&E relationship.
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I just tried bringing the vapor into my mouth and without inhaling, try releasing it out of my nose and couldn't do it. It seems that it gets stuck in my mouth or I have to inhale it. Will keep trying, perhaps there's a knack to it
There’s certainly different techniques, me I’m drawing it in on one side of my mouth, and start letting it out on the other side, as soon as I stop drawing in. Works quite well, maybe the fact that I’m in TC mode also helps.
Are you a MTL vaper or DTL? It seems to be easier to change over for someone who vapes MTL now. You bring it into your mouth for just a second or so, and at the point you would normally then draw it down to your lungs (as a MTL inhale)..exhale it out your nose and/or mouth instead. I've always vaped this way, but always MTL smoked.
Some find it easier at first..to inhale into the mouth, remove the drip tip from your lips so your mouth closes, and then exhale through their nose. Can learn that first, then go for the mouth and/or nose.
You could try diluting your VG with 10-15% distilled water, instead of PG.
When you say that smoking doesn't cause you short breath, but vaping does, I find that irritating. For obvious reasons, I'd even say. When you smoke, you have a latent monoxide poisoning, preventing your blood from getting as saturated with oxygen as it should, which then inevitably leaves you with having to accelerate your O2-input/CO2-output to be able to do the things you need to do.
Nothing I've ever read about PG or VG makes me think they could cause the same effects, so either you're special in that regard, or you're making a mistake with your vaping which you haven't discovered yet (like using wrong flavors). Whatever it turns out to be, keeping on smoking is not a solution to any problem.
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That's like a pipe smoker smokes IIRC. I vape sometimes like that, too, if I'm reading a good book or doing something else really relaxing. Seems to work, too.
Definitely mtl...I just did it, but had to like swallow the vapor, it seemed to bring it into the nasal passage. It was a bit harsh doing it that way though and will try it your way....that would be cool if I could do it this way but I love the TH, so not sure..thanks
VG in higher percentages gives me a heavy feeling in my chest that one could associate with shortness of breath. I use 2/3 PG as a result, but for someone with PG sensitivity and possible VG breathing "heaviness" perhaps a PG alternative like USP PEG400 could help. Perhaps @stols001 could share her experience after moving to PEG 400.
In the meantime, puffing as one would with a pipe or cigar should help. Good luck sorting this out!
In the meantime, puffing as one would with a pipe or cigar should help. Good luck sorting this out!
Based on the content of @Yodara posts, I don't believe that he has a medical degree or has taken classes at medical school.
So a reply from a clinical Psychologist here. Caffeine stimulates your nervous system and for that reason it can make you nervous and trigger anxiety (this has been verified by a number of good studies). Nicotine is also a stimulant and the combination of these two can have different effects on different people. So if the combination makes you nervous just remove either and consume the other one later if you want to. Also note this may just be a coincidence. Btw, anxiety attacks can be successfully reduced by meditation so I would recommend this if you want to get rid of them. You can also see a Psychologist to find a solution. All the best and don't worry - you will be fine
Here's a post by me on a similar topic.
If you have concerns about your health, do talk to your doctor.
I'm not aware of any similarity with the diuretic effect of caffeine. Cartoon shows a nephron in the kidney, responding to caffeine. "A1R" is the A1 receptor of adenosine.
I always wondered how far down it goes. I think I do MTL. Take a drag, stop, then inhale. But it seems like it must go at least part of the way down into the lungs before you stop vaping and inhale whatever is still in your mouth. There just isn't enough room in your mouth to hold even the small MTL cloud that comes out.
One can bump up the nic level and take smaller puffs, works fine for me when needed.
I've found something kind of similar myself - I use max VG liquids and try not to inhale when vaping. I've found that anything above 4mg/ml of freebase nicotine leads to that heavy feeling in my chest when I inhale so I stick to about 3mg/ml because I still haven't managed to fully adapt to not inhaling.
This is of course contrary to what @440BB said, which for me that would actually make things worse - obviously the only way to settle this is a duel to the death. Or, acceptance that one's mileage my vary from either of ours.
I've thought about trying nicotine salts to see if that makes it less uncomfortable to inhale, but I have 108g of freebase nicotine in VG left to use up first and a complete inability to throw anything I've paid for away...
This is of course contrary to what @440BB said, which for me that would actually make things worse - obviously the only way to settle this is a duel to the death. Or, acceptance that one's mileage my vary from either of ours.
I've thought about trying nicotine salts to see if that makes it less uncomfortable to inhale, but I have 108g of freebase nicotine in VG left to use up first and a complete inability to throw anything I've paid for away...
I just tried a few MTL inhales, like I used to smoke, to see if I could explain better how the method some of us use differs. I pulled the vapor into my mouth, and as soon as I removed the drip tip from my lips...they closed for a split second and then I did a really quick but deeper inhale...that pulled the vapor already in my mouth, down into my lungs.
To exhale through my nose instead, when I've pulled the vapor into my mouth...it happens a second or 2 after the point I underlined above. Instead of taking a quick inhale then, I exhale the vapor through my nose instead.
To exhale through my mouth, it happens at that same point, but instead of exhaling out through my nose after a second or 2, I just open my mouth and blow.
One thing I do notice...is that to keep the vapor from going down my windpipe when pulling it into my mouth...my tongue kind of does sort of go back to block it off. It's sort of similar to what it does when you're gargling and you don't want mouthwash to go down your throat. The tongue also then kind of helps to push the vapor out on exhale.
This is difficult to slow down and analyze every action and then put them into words adequately. It's second nature for me to do it hundreds of times each day, but trying to explain exactly how...is kind of tricky.
I have enough vapor come out when I exhale, that people don't believe me when I tell them I haven't inhaled any of it. They swear I'm vaping MTL, and it's coming up from my lungs, but nope...it isn't.
Just this second dawned on me - Maybe those 9 years I played the alto sax has something to do with me being able to get such a good-sized fast inhale...without it even going to my lungs.
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PEG 400 is great for me. It's not quite as viscous as VG (I use it as a PG substitute) but I would imagine you could vape it in place of VG too, if you wanted. You could also combine it with PG and get away with that as far as not having a super anemic vape. You' d have to research it thoroughly.
I just say that because it is widely not used, I did my own due diligence and found nothing alarming but you should do that too.
Nic river sells it for cheap, I got a small tester sized bottle first from Amazon.
It's a flavor carrier like PG, so it also improved the flavor in my mixes than when they were VG and water, the flavor is crisper somehow.
I would definitely say it wouldn't hurt to TRY it, I for sure am glad I did.
Good luck, hope it helps if you try it.
Anna
I just say that because it is widely not used, I did my own due diligence and found nothing alarming but you should do that too.
Nic river sells it for cheap, I got a small tester sized bottle first from Amazon.
It's a flavor carrier like PG, so it also improved the flavor in my mixes than when they were VG and water, the flavor is crisper somehow.
I would definitely say it wouldn't hurt to TRY it, I for sure am glad I did.
Good luck, hope it helps if you try it.
Anna
As @JCinFLA pointed out I am a MTN vaper (mouth through nose). I am 1 week away from my 7th smoke free anniversary. I decided when I made the switch that I would give my lungs a break after 45 years of abusing them with smoke. I am sure a small amount of the vapor does make it down to the top of my lungs occasionally but I have never purposely pulled it all the way down. I vape 12mg 50/50 very lightly flavored e-liquid on a 1.8 ohm coil @ less than 4 watts.
I vape kinda like drawing on a straw. I get a mouth full of vapor and then hold it for a few seconds. BTW: doing it this way has allowed me to hold my breath much longer that I ever could before. After a few seconds I let the vapor drift out through my nose and depending on how long I have held it in my mouth, through my mouth. The speed of release depends on how long I can hold my breath. If I need to take a breath I blow it out of my mouth quickly. It took a bit of practice to get to the point of just feeling natural to me.
If one day medical problems start showing up in long time vapors I feel sure it will be traced back to vaping massive amounts of flavored e-liquid cooked to make super heated vapor and lots of it and then pulled directly into ones lungs hundreds of times a day.
as always, just my humble opinion.
I vape kinda like drawing on a straw. I get a mouth full of vapor and then hold it for a few seconds. BTW: doing it this way has allowed me to hold my breath much longer that I ever could before. After a few seconds I let the vapor drift out through my nose and depending on how long I have held it in my mouth, through my mouth. The speed of release depends on how long I can hold my breath. If I need to take a breath I blow it out of my mouth quickly. It took a bit of practice to get to the point of just feeling natural to me.
If one day medical problems start showing up in long time vapors I feel sure it will be traced back to vaping massive amounts of flavored e-liquid cooked to make super heated vapor and lots of it and then pulled directly into ones lungs hundreds of times a day.
as always, just my humble opinion.
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