evidently you didn't fill out all the proper paper work pertaining to
the use of so many flashlights. government regulations and all that.
Does this seem right to you?
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the use of so many flashlights. government regulations and all that.
First of All. The Deeming of e-Cigarettes is Not Complete. Nothing has been Finalized.
Second. "All the Components" is a Very Pour Choice of Words. Are 18650 Batteries going to be Legally Defined as a "Tobacco Product"? How about Kanthal or NiChrome? Are These "Tobacco Products". Or the Flashlight I referred to in Post [HASHTAG]#875[/HASHTAG]? Is Organic Cotton going to be a "Tobacco Product"? What about Food Flavorings? The List goes On and On.
The Answer is No. If you Do Not Market something to be "Used As" or "Used With" a Tobacco Product, and if there is Not a Tobacco Product included in a "Kit", the FDA has Almost No Legal Authority over these Products.
Make a Cig-a-like such as the Vuse, Market it as an "e-Cigarette", then Yes, the FDA will have some Authority over it.
I didn't know I needed to read. I went through the education system and my mama told me I didn't have to read because the government has programs and such that would get me through. She was right. I just put my head down on the desk every day in class and the next thing I know they were giving me a diploma and saying welcome to the world of responsible citizens. They gave me a packet and all I had to do was sign my name and I received a check once a month from the government.
Maybe there is a government program that can help me with that paper work.
Ain't American grand?
Ok Mike. Whatever you say.
I'm going to go out Today and buy another one of these before the FDA Regulates it.
Ok Mike. Whatever you say.
I'm going to go out Today and buy another one of these before the FDA Regulates it.
Will the FDA have authority over all hardware, no. Will that stop them from trying to seize them? If past actions are a guide to future ones, no.
I'm not too worried about hardware, for the reasons you mention. However, their wording is purposefully vague, and I wouldn't count 0% liquid as avoiding regulation, especially if sold by a vendor that sells vaping products. DIY... yeah, that's about as safe as it can be, though the nicotine might be hard to get.
How do you justify regulating 0mg e-liquid then? If nicotine makes it a tobacco product then 0mg e-liquid doesn't meet that requirement for regulation
The logic is a bit circular: e-liquid that contains nicotine is a tobacco product. Anything used for vaporizing e-liquid is an e-cigarette or e-cigarette component. E-cigarettes and their components are tobacco products/fall under the regulations of tobacco products. Anything intended to be consumed via an e-cigarette is a tobacco product. E-liquid without nicotine, if intended to be consumed via e-cigarette, is a tobacco product.
Batteries, kanthal, cotton are accessories, not components, and do not fall under the proposed regulations.
While that is true they making a big stink about nicotine this, nicotine that...so if you were to take away the nicotine their boat just had a 50 foot hole shot into its hull
I think the main point is this: the gov't can do anything it wants, and the only way one can fight it is in the courts -- which costs a lot of money, and considering how much taxpayer money the gov't steals in any way it can dream up, they have a virtually unlimited budget.
If you want to keep vaping, stock up: nicotine first, then rebuildables, and finally mechanical mods -- even if you don't like to vape straight off the battery, there are modules called Kicks that can regulate the vape, and considering all the Indiana shops about to go out of business, you can get Kicks dirt cheap nowadays.
I know this is supposed to be America the Beautiful, but it's actually become America the Police State. Only way to realistically fight it is by doing for yourself, and Civil Disobedience. Just because something is the law, doesn't necessarily mean you have to bow down to it -- just do what you will, in your own home, quietly. They can't prosecute what they don't know about.
Andria
If you want to keep vaping, stock up: nicotine first, then rebuildables, and finally mechanical mods -- even if you don't like to vape straight off the battery, there are modules called Kicks that can regulate the vape, and considering all the Indiana shops about to go out of business, you can get Kicks dirt cheap nowadays.
I know this is supposed to be America the Beautiful, but it's actually become America the Police State. Only way to realistically fight it is by doing for yourself, and Civil Disobedience. Just because something is the law, doesn't necessarily mean you have to bow down to it -- just do what you will, in your own home, quietly. They can't prosecute what they don't know about.
Andria
I think the FDA Learned their Lesson about Instructing Customs to seize things when they Had No Legal Authority to do so. And I think the Customs Dept. will think Twice about doing some just because the FDA tells them to.
Selling something for "Vaping" would put you under the FDA Microscope. Once Again, so much of this is Based on How a product is Marketed.
Go look at places that Sell Nicotine Base and Flavorings Only. Many/Most of them do Not Have the word "Vaping" or e-Cigarette" or "e-Liquid" anywhere on their site. And there Nicotine and Flavoring have No Stated Intended Use.
This is How retailers will have to Approach Hardware.
Doncha love our government. Typical representative "Ummm , wasn't the Red's game great last night?" Sir I really want to know your opinion. Oh yeah yeah yeah right. Ummm "Isn't Jimmy Kimmel having some celebrity on tonight?". Ohh wait.. I am sorry we are out of time. It was so nice to meet you.. Remember vote for skippy.
Normally I would agree with you, but the more recent surveys they've been feeding to the media talk about increased nicotine use among teens, even though the teens were never asked if the e-cigarettes they used contain nicotine.
I hope they learned their lesson. You are right about the grey area of marketing, I just would hate to see the industry brought to that level. Instead of head shops, we'll have "flashlight" markets, that also specialize in candy/bakery flavorings.
The FDA can't take away Nicotine. Because of Court Rulings saying that We have the Right to Recreational "Tobacco" use. And the Only way for the FDA to Regulate e-Liquids that contain Nicotine is to Deem them as "Tobacco Products".
So the Definition that Gives them Authority to Regulate also Restricts them from Banning Recreational Use.
But there is a Way for the FDA to Solve all there Problems with Nicotine without Banning it. It also Alleviates all these Issues with what Hardware is this, and what Hardware is that.
And as if that Wasn't enough? It is Dead Simple and a Perfect vehicle to hand the e-Cigarette Market to BT on a Silver Platter.
Makes a Good Pop Quiz Quest too!
I haven't had enough coffee for coyness, are you referring to closed systems?
And I don't come to ECF for pop quizzes; I finished my formal education many many years ago. If you have something to share, then share it by all means; don't treat us like schoolkids.
Andria
Andria
Not really. I mean, they can write whatever regulation but such regulation may not be enforceable. Nicotine is not a scheduled drug. Thus, they can't really regulate it as such. The point you made above about having no stated use is exactly how to approach it. That's what the FDA does have jurisdiction over -substances and devices intended for the treatment and diagnoses of diseases, as well as food safety. Vape hardware will likely have to have a label like supplements do: not intended to treat any disease. Ejuice manufacturers will likely have to move to food production standards. Nicotine will likely still be sold as it always has been, just not labeled as a "smoking cessation aid." Any and all advertising making claims as to smoking cessation or health claims of any kind will have to be changed. That's the real problem here.
The big things I expect to see are 1)disclaimers, 2)advertising regulations, 3)ban on minor sales. I don't think we will see an outright ban on all vape gear; no "vapocalypse".But anything outside of those three things should be fought tooth and nail.
I think the vape industry also needs to voluntarily 1)back away from making specific health claims 2)focus on safety in hardware and liquid, and 3)Market vaping as something on its own entirely separate from smoking. It is a fundamentally different activity.
Ding-Ding-Ding
Winner, Winner. Chicken Dinner!
You just Won a Brand New Vuse complete with 3 Non-Refillable, Chip Enabled, 12mg/ml (in your Choice of 5 Flavors!), Closed System Cartos that have a Proprietary Threading so they Only Work on a Vuse.
Send me your Address and I will get them Off to you in 3 ~ 5 Business Day. Shipping and Handle Not Included.
In the US they already can't/don't make health or smoking cessation claims, been that way since 2009 when it was decided by the Sotera lawsuit that e-cigs are not medicinal. The deeming regulations are intended to deem e-cigarettes and vapor products as "tobacco products" bringing them under FDA purview.
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