Does this seem right to you?

[zoiDman]

Not really. I mean, they can write whatever regulation but such regulation may not be enforceable. Nicotine is not a scheduled drug. Thus, they can't really regulate it as such. The point you made above about having no stated use is exactly how to approach it. That's what the FDA does have jurisdiction over -substances and devices intended for the treatment and diagnoses of diseases, as well as food safety. Vape hardware will likely have to have a label like supplements do: not intended to treat any disease. ejuice manufacturers will likely have to move to food production standards. Nicotine will likely still be sold as it always has been, just not labeled as a "smoking cessation aid." Any and all advertising making claims as to smoking cessation or health claims of any kind will have to be changed. That's the real problem here.

The big things I expect to see are 1)disclaimers, 2)advertising regulations, 3)ban on minor sales. I don't think we will see an outright ban on all vape gear; no "vapocalypse".But anything outside of those three things should be fought tooth and nail.

I think the vape industry also needs to voluntarily 1)back away from making specific health claims 2)focus on safety in hardware and liquid, and 3)Market vaping as something on its own entirely separate from smoking. It is a fundamentally different activity.

All good Points. Except for the Part about Nicotine being Sold as it Always has.

Nicotine is the Head of the Snake. If Nicotine is Sold in Pre-Filled, Closed System Cartridges, it isn't banning it.

But it is gonna be Kinda Hard to do DIY if you have to Cut Open a Bunch of Pre-Filled Carto, and then Squeeze out the 12mg/ml "juice" inside them.

 

[Lessifer]

Ding-Ding-Ding

Winner, Winner. Chicken Dinner!

You just Won a Brand New Vuse complete with 3 Non-Refillable, Chip Enabled, 12mg/ml (in your Choice of 5 Flavors!), Closed System Cartos that have a Proprietary Threading so they Only Work on a Vuse.

Send me your Address and I will get them Off to you in 3 ~ 5 Business Day. Shipping and Handle Not Included.

I thought I already mentioned closed systems, maybe it was the other thread where the new owner of a juice line thinks there's nothing to be worried about?

 

[zoiDman]

And I don't come to ECF for pop quizzes; I finished my formal education many many years ago. If you have something to share, then share it by all means; don't treat us like schoolkids.

Andria

A little Grumpy today Andria?

Smile. And Enjoy the Fact that you are No Longer a Smoker.

 

[zoiDman]

I thought I already mentioned closed systems, maybe it was the other thread where the new owner of a juice line thinks there's nothing to be worried about?

That Dude in the Other Thread is Either Very Delusional. Or Not too Bright.

Maybe Both.

 

[Lessifer]

That Dude in the Other Thread is Either Very Delusional. Or Not too Bright.

Maybe Both.

Yeah, I gave up on him. It may not turn out as bad as I fear it will, but to not think there will be some MAJOR hoops to jump through at the very least...

On an unrelated note(though related to this thread), I got my prize from velvet cloud yesterday, I really like their bottles, obligatory warning statements, including prop 65, nic level, no pg/vg levels but their stuff is vg only so not needed. However... each bottle has a picture on it, an illustration of the flavor. Some are just drawings of fruits, but many are "cartoonish" but in an artistic way, they're great illustrations. I really like them. I would hate for them to have to go away... If you want to see them, check out their site, they use the same illustrations for the liquids on the site.

 

[skoony]

How do you justify regulating 0mg e-liquid themes ? If nicotine makes it a tobacco product then 0mg e-liquid doesn't meet that requisrement for regulation

f
there isn't any exertion for nicotine.
derived from tobacco means it takes
takes the place of tobacco or a tobacco
product.
there is no requtirement for there to
be any tobacco to be in the product.
regards
Mikebh
X

 

[Vaslovik]

Put some duct tape around the label, problem solved.

 

[zoiDman]

Yeah, I gave up on him. It may not turn out as bad as I fear it will, but to not think there will be some MAJOR hoops to jump through at the very least...

On an unrelated note(though related to this thread), I got my prize from velvet cloud yesterday, I really like their bottles, obligatory warning statements, including prop 65, nic level, no pg/vg levels but their stuff is vg only so not needed. However... each bottle has a picture on it, an illustration of the flavor. Some are just drawings of fruits, but many are "cartoonish" but in an artistic way, they're great illustrations. I really like them. I would hate for them to have to go away... If you want to see them, check out their site, they use the same illustrations for the liquids on the site.

Hey the Cool thing is you Won Them.

How Many did you Get? And have you had a Chance to Taste any? Or are you going to let them "Steep" for a couple of Days?

 

[AndriaD]

A little Grumpy today Andria?

Smile. And Enjoy the Fact that you are No Longer a Smoker.

No more than usual -- I'm a curmudgeon after all. There doesn't seem to be a word for a female curmudgeon. Can't be a Cat Lady, I only have one. But it struck me just like those idiots on the news who ask all the leading questions, but then won't answer them - "Back with the answer, after these messages." Like I really care enough to watch 5 minutes of inane drivel masquerading as advertising.

I gave up on the human race many years ago; it's why I'm a hermit. Not surprising at all, what the gov't is doing about vaping; my only surprise was discovering that they never REALLY wanted anyone to quit smoking, they just wanted to create a hated minority so that people would have someone to hate other than the gov't itself.

I'll be here at home with my nicotine stash and rebuildables, vaping happily. If the gov't doesn't like that I won't buy those idiotic and useless closed-system things, tough. They can kiss my fanny.

Andria

 

[Lessifer]

Hey the Cool thing is you Won Them.

How Many did you Get? And have you had a Chance to Taste any? Or are you going to let them "Steep" for a couple of Days?

There's 24 in the line. A few of them I've tried before and know I like, a couple I know I don't like. I've tried a few so far but I can tell they will be better with at least a few days steeping, they literally got them to me in two days. Once I've had a chance to give them all a fair try I'll write up a review

 

[Lessifer]

No more than usual -- I'm a curmudgeon after all. There doesn't seem to be a word for a female curmudgeon. Can't be a Cat Lady, I only have one. But it struck me just like those idiots on the news who ask all the leading questions, but then won't answer them - "Back with the answer, after these messages." Like I really care enough to watch 5 minutes of inane drivel masquerading as advertising.

I gave up on the human race many years ago; it's why I'm a hermit. Not surprising at all, what the gov't is doing about vaping; my only surprise was discovering that they never REALLY wanted anyone to quit smoking, they just wanted to create a hated minority so that people would have someone to hate other than the gov't itself.

I'll be here at home with my nicotine stash and rebuildables, vaping happily. If the gov't doesn't like that I won't buy those idiotic and useless closed-system things, tough. They can kiss my fanny.

Andria

Tell everyone you need to increase fuel taxes by $0.50 and you get a LOT of grumbling. Tell everyone that you're going to raise excise taxes on vile cigarettes by $1.50/pack, silence.

 

[bluecat]

Yeah, I gave up on him. It may not turn out as bad as I fear it will, but to not think there will be some MAJOR hoops to jump through at the very least...

On an unrelated note(though related to this thread), I got my prize from velvet cloud yesterday, I really like their bottles, obligatory warning statements, including prop 65, nic level, no pg/vg levels but their stuff is vg only so not needed. However... each bottle has a picture on it, an illustration of the flavor. Some are just drawings of fruits, but many are "cartoonish" but in an artistic way, they're great illustrations. I really like them. I would hate for them to have to go away... If you want to see them, check out their site, they use the same illustrations for the liquids on the site.

I am thinking they are just doing the "Go for it everything, then make adjustments" It seems to be the way they work lately.

They are a bit too rich for my blood, although their white beard tobacco looks interesting. I only had one liquid purchased I really liked. The next bottle tasted like junk, so I diy now and only buy liquid from the inexpensive places. I have some death liquid from china coming.

 

[bluecat]

No more than usual -- I'm a curmudgeon after all. There doesn't seem to be a word for a female curmudgeon. Can't be a Cat Lady, I only have one. But it struck me just like those idiots on the news who ask all the leading questions, but then won't answer them - "Back with the answer, after these messages." Like I really care enough to watch 5 minutes of inane drivel masquerading as advertising.

I gave up on the human race many years ago; it's why I'm a hermit. Not surprising at all, what the gov't is doing about vaping; my only surprise was discovering that they never REALLY wanted anyone to quit smoking, they just wanted to create a hated minority so that people would have someone to hate other than the gov't itself.

I'll be here at home with my nicotine stash and rebuildables, vaping happily. If the gov't doesn't like that I won't buy those idiotic and useless closed-system things, tough. They can kiss my fanny.

Andria

I believe the term "battleaxe" would apply or maybe "harridan". Not that I would call you one, but it could be the appropriate female variety of a curmudgeon. You are very social at least on the boards.

One good reason the USA stood strong is because of a common hated enemy in history. Hitler, Stalin, the snake hole dude, Cuba. When there is no longer a common enemy we will implode on ourselves. Slowly that is happening.

 

[zoiDman]

There's 24 in the line. A few of them I've tried before and know I like, a couple I know I don't like. I've tried a few so far but I can tell they will be better with at least a few days steeping, they literally got them to me in two days. Once I've had a chance to give them all a fair try I'll write up a review

The Cool thing about getting an Entire Line of someone's e-Liquids is that it gives you a Chance to Try many flavors that you normally Wouldn't. And Many Times you stumble onto a Flavor that you Really Like. But would Never think about Buying.

I got a ton of Samples during the B2B portion of the ECC 2014 Expo. Some were Dogs. Some were OK. But some were Very Good. And Flavors I wouldn't Normally Try.

 

[skoony]

Will the FDA have authority over all hardware, no. Will that stop them from trying to seize them? If past actions are a guide to future ones, no.
H3g
I'm not too worried about hardware, for the reasons you mention. However, their wording is purposefully vague, and I wouldn't count 0% liquid as avoiding regulation, especially if sold by a vendor that sells vaping products. DIY... yeah, that's about as safe as it can be, though the nicotine might be hard to get.

t

Will the FDA have authority over all hardware, no. Will that stop them from trying to seize them? If past actions are a guide to future ones, no.

I'm not too worried about hardware, for the reasons you mention. However, their wording is purposefully vague, and I wouldn't count 0% liquid as avoiding regulation, especially if sold by a vendor that sells vaping products. DIY... yeah, that's about as safe as it can be, though the nicotine might be hard to get.

 

[AndriaD]

I believe the term "battleaxe" would apply or maybe "harridan". Not that I would call you one, but it could be the appropriate female variety of a curmudgeon. You are very social at least on the boards.

I like "battleaxe"! I'm social on the internet because it has a very nice feature -- I can go away and leave it alone anytime I want to. The phone won't ring, there won't be any bills in the mail (I went paper-free on my comcast bill!), and no one rings my doorbell -- PERFECT social milieu for hermits!

One good reason the USA stood strong is because of a common hated enemy in history. Hitler, Stalin, the snake hole dude, Cuba. When there is no longer a common enemy we will implode on ourselves. Slowly that is happening.

I agree. The day after 9/11, we were ALL Americans. Just as soon as we actually went to war to try and exterminate some of the vermin who attacked us, suddenly there were peace-niks in the streets, hollering about how awful war is. Then the bankers and Wall St vermin imploded the world economy and nobody blamed those who really caused it (as in, indicting and prosecuting them for treating the stock exchange like their own personal casino) -- and suddenly when there's actually a real way for billions of smokers to liberate themselves, the gov't discovers that it doesn't really want anyone to quit smoking. Why? MONEY. As if any dollar amount is more valuable than even a single life that could be saved from early termination.

So I give up on the human race and gov't in general. Someone around here had a sig line that really told the truth: "The human race is going to stupid itself to death." Yep, and it's well underway.

Andria

 

[skoony]

The logic is a bit circular: e-liquid that contains nicotine is a tobacco product. Anything used for vaporizing e-liquid is a.n e-cigarette or e-cigarette component. E-cigarettes and their components are tobacco products/fall under the regulations of tobacco products. Anything intended to be consumed via an e-cigarette is a tobacco product. E-liquid without nicotine, if intended to be consumed via e-cigarette, is a tobacco product.

Batteries, kanthal, cotton are accessories, not co mponents, and do not fall under the proposed regulations.

if it is needed to consume the tobacco product
It is a tobacco product.

 

[bluecat]

I like "battleaxe"! I'm social on the internet because it has a very nice feature -- I can go away and leave it alone anytime I want to. The phone won't ring, there won't be any bills in the mail (I went paper-free on my comcast bill!), and no one rings my doorbell -- PERFECT social milieu for hermits!




I agree. The day after 9/11, we were ALL Americans. Just as soon as we actually went to war to try and exterminate some of the vermin who attacked us, suddenly there were peace-niks in the streets, hollering about how awful war is. Then the bankers and Wall St vermin imploded the world economy and nobody blamed those who really caused it (as in, indicting and prosecuting them for treating the stock exchange like their own personal casino) -- and suddenly when there's actually a real way for billions of smokers to liberate themselves, the gov't discovers that it doesn't really want anyone to quit smoking. Why? MONEY. As if any dollar amount is more valuable than even a single life that could be saved from early termination.

So I give up on the human race and gov't in general. Someone around here had a sig line that really told the truth: "The human race is going to stupid itself to death." Yep, and it's well underway.

Andria

It is what I tell my kids. Whatever you decide to do in life give it 110%. You can never be mad at yourself if you do that just don't be stupid. I will be the first one to tell them that it was stupid.

So far so good.

I am looking for another round of bribes to be paid by BT here soon. ACA is going into the toilet. Rates are gonna be jacked up everywhere. SCOTUS is going to rule against it unless they have decided they are able to make new laws. It is gonna be a mess. The bribes from tobacco will eliminate errr push it down the road.

 

[DC2]

You just Won a Brand New Vuse complete with 3 Non-Refillable, Chip Enabled, 12mg/ml (in your Choice of 5 Flavors!), Closed System Cartos that have a Proprietary Threading so they Only Work on a Vuse.

You really think they'll be able to come up with four different tobacco flavors?
Oh, wait, make that five since menthol flavors may not have long to live.

 

[AndriaD]

It is what I tell my kids. Whatever you decide to do in life give it 110%. You can never be mad at yourself if you do that just don't be stupid. I will be the first one to tell them that it was stupid.

So far so good.

I am looking for another round of bribes to be paid by BT here soon. ACA is going into the toilet. Rates are gonna be jacked up everywhere. SCOTUS is going to rule against it unless they have decided they are able to make new laws. It is gonna be a mess. The bribes from tobacco will eliminate errr push it down the road.

A mess it is, and shall be for many years; I don't know if I'll live to see e-cigs vindicated and their use upheld as a marvelous remedy to the many and varied ills of smoking, I'm 54 already, but I'm confident that the truth will continue being the truth, no matter what contortions the gov't goes thru to demonize THR.

I prophecied a terrible result when the MSA passed, and lo, here it is. The gov't is far more addicted to tobacco money than many smokers are to tobacco itself. Ain't that a kick in the head, America.

Andria