Does this seem right to you?

[Lessifer]

What do you Suggest we do then?

Remember, we Don't have Years anymore. We probably have less than 6 Weeks.

He might be a good candidate for a twitter bomb, though it might be less helpful than fun.

I don't know how to kick off a successful social movement in less than six weeks, I really don't.

 

[HauntedMyst]

@HauntedMyst : Agreed, cookie labeled e-liquid should become then new girl scout cookies. Cute girls with chainsaws selling juice door to door, what's not to like?

That would be awesome! Thin mint flavored eliquid would rock! But skip the chainsaws. They don't help with selling and would just make the girl scouts seem aggressive and would act as a deterrent to sales. (Seriously caramel, what are you thinking? Sometimes you are ridiculous. Now if the girl scouts were using the chainsaws to chase away door to door Jehovah's Witnesses then that would make sense.)

 

[Jode]

So it's all good fun to make jokes about this, and click our teeth at the ridiculousness of it, but we're not doing anything about the heart of the matter.

This AG does not see a difference between smoking and vaping, so in his mind, all of the same rules apply. How do we open his eyes to the fact that vaping is not smoking? I don't think conceding the first point to him is the way to go about it.

Whether or not you agree with the studies about smoking, at least they exist, and to the extent that it convinced many people that smoking is harmful to your health. That is supposedly the basis for the TC regs, to help protect consumers from a harmful product.

Why do we just accept this justification for ANY regulations against vaping? There are no studies showing that vaping is harmful, at least not credible ones. Aside from the inhalation, and possible presence of nicotine, smoking and vaping are completely different.

I don't know if there is a good answer to this. If the AG's mind is set it makes it very challenging to change it without studies that take time. We may find, unfortunately, that we will have to work backwards. Continue to make as much headway with what we have and hope that the market remain intact enough for those longer term studies to be complete. I do know that some hospitals do studies to show increased/decreased lung function and how vaping effects the body over all. I was reading a gals account of one she participated in (this was on one of the FB group pages, maybe vapingdrama?) It was really cool to hear that at least these are being done. I kind of feel like I am sitting in the electric chair for a crime I didn't commit just waiting for that last minute call that sets me free.

 

[Rossum]

I kind of feel like I am sitting in the electric chair for a crime I didn't commit just waiting for that last minute call that sets me free.

There is only person who can set you free.

 

[zoiDman]

He might be a good candidate for a twitter bomb, though it might be less helpful than fun.

I don't know how to kick off a successful social movement in less than six weeks, I really don't.

Perhaps people should start think about Getting Organized on the Local/State level and thinking about doing "Letter Drives" to their Federal House and Senate Members?

It would be Nice if Every State had a 100,000+ Signature Petition say that Vapers are Opposed to Flavor Bans, Face-2-Face Sales Only, Limits to Nicotine Levels and Closed System Cartridges. Al Least ALL Vapers could agree on that.

But we would need the Help of B&M and Online Retailers to make a Petition really go.

I wonder how many ECF Registered Suppliers would be Willing to Help on something like this?

 

[zoiDman]

BTW - Here is the Original Letter sent to the FDA that those State Attorney Generals enjoined in on September 24th, 2013

http://www.naag.org/assets/files/pdf/E Cigarette Final Letter (5)(1).pdf

 

[caramel]

That would be awesome! Thin mint flavored eliquid would rock! But skip the chainsaws. They don't help with selling and would just make the girl scouts seem aggressive and would act as a deterrent to sales. (Seriously caramel, what are you thinking? Sometimes you are ridiculous. Now if the girl scouts were using the chainsaws to chase away door to door Jehovah's Witnesses then that would make sense.)

Remember the Ice cream truck? How about an e-juice truck for the drippers? Chucks cloudz, bro!

 

[Lessifer]

Perhaps people should start think about Getting Organized on the Local/State level and thinking about doing "Letter Drives" to their Federal House and Senate Members?

It would be Nice if Every State had a 100,000+ Signature Petition say that Vapers are Opposed to Flavor Bans, Face-2-Face Sales Only, Limits to Nicotine Levels and Closed System Cartridges. Al Least ALL Vapers could agree on that.

But we would need the Help of B&M and Online Retailers to make a Petition really go.

I wonder how many ECF Registered Suppliers would be Willing to Help on something like this?

Might be a good idea, but we'd need to work on how to word it. It's better to have a petition For Something rather than Against Something.

Protect access to flavors, which many feel is an integral part of the appeal of vaping.
Protect access to online sales that allow consumers to procure exactly what they want from anywhere in the world.
Protect access to all nicotine concentrations, which the ability to customize helps make vaping a successful alternative to tobacco.
Protect access to open container systems, which make vapor products more economically viable than tobacco products.

Of course the first response from the ANTZ will be, well, how do we protect the children?

 

[zoiDman]

Might be a good idea, but we'd need to work on how to word it. It's better to have a petition For Something rather than Against Something.

Protect access to flavors, which many feel is an integral part of the appeal of vaping.
Protect access to online sales that allow consumers to procure exactly what they want from anywhere in the world.
Protect access to all nicotine concentrations, which the ability to customize helps make vaping a successful alternative to tobacco.
Protect access to open container systems, which make vapor products more economically viable than tobacco products.

Of course the first response from the ANTZ will be, well, how do we protect the children?

I would Suggest that Anything that a Person comes up with Should have a Paragraph which Includes Why Vaping is Important. Because it is Harm Reduction.

I think the Core Message should always be that Vaping is a "Safer" alternative for Adults who Smoke.

 

[FlamingoTutu]

Might be a good idea, but we'd need to work on how to word it. It's better to have a petition For Something rather than Against Something.

Protect access to flavors, which many feel is an integral part of the appeal of vaping.
Protect access to online sales that allow consumers to procure exactly what they want from anywhere in the world.
Protect access to all nicotine concentrations, which the ability to customize helps make vaping a successful alternative to tobacco.
Protect access to open container systems, which make vapor products more economically viable than tobacco products.

Of course the first response from the ANTZ will be, well, how do we protect the children?

What zoiD said but also a few of my quibbles:

Protect access to flavors, which many feel is an integral part of the appeal of vaping.

Get rid of the word appeal. Whenever I hear that word now I cringe because of the overuse of, “appeals to children.”

Protect access to online sales that allow consumers to procure exactly what they want from anywhere in the world.

To buy the equipment they feel is best suited for them to be able to quit smoking at an affordable price.

Protect access to all nicotine concentrations, which the ability to customize helps make vaping a successful alternative to tobacco.

Current nicotine strengths to help get over the initial cigarette cravings and then wean themselves off gradually.

Protect access to open container systems, which make vapor products more economically viable than tobacco products.

Open/reusable systems that are more cost effective, use fewer resources and create less refuse and pollution.

 

[zoiDman]

BTW - Here is a Nice Site if someone is looking for Someplace to Send their Views on e-Cigarettes.

U.S. Senate Contact Information | Congressional Listings, Phone Numbers, Addresses, 113th Congress

 

[zoiDman]

And here is Another...

U.S. House of Representatives Contact Information | Congressional Listings, Phone Numbers, Addresses, 113th Congress

 

[Lessifer]

I would Suggest that Anything that a Person comes up with Should have a Paragraph which Includes Why Vaping is Important. Because it is Harm Reduction.

I think the Core Message should always be that Vaping is a "Safer" alternative for Adults who Smoke.

How about "Vaping is a safer alternative to smoked tobacco"?

 

[zoiDman]

How about "Vaping is a safer alternative to smoked tobacco"?

Sounds Good to Me.

 

[caramel]

Protect access to vaping supplies as there's no safe alternative to vaping, and we don't know the long term effects of quitting vaping.

Now seriously. I think you're losing your time on this, as it's just Kabuki theater. Those AG letters will be quoted by FDA to justify "wide support" for their regulations, whilst your letter will never get mentioned.

I'd say concentrate on Sen Tom Cole initiative for now. You have a Senator willing to work on this, support him. It has greater chances of success than writing to an AG that has already made his mind in 2013.

 

[caramel]

How about "Vaping is a safer alternative to smoked tobacco"?

FDA will reply "Vaping is not a safe alternative to smoked tobacco".

 

[Lessifer]

What zoiD said but also a few of my quibbles:

Protect access to flavors, which many feel is an integral part of the appeal of vaping.

Get rid of the word appeal. Whenever I hear that word now I cringe because of the overuse of, “appeals to children.”

Protect access to online sales that allow consumers to procure exactly what they want from anywhere in the world.

To buy the equipment they feel is best suited for them to be able to quit smoking at an affordable price.

Protect access to all nicotine concentrations, which the ability to customize helps make vaping a successful alternative to tobacco.

Current nicotine strengths to help get over the initial cigarette cravings and then wean themselves off gradually.

Protect access to open container systems, which make vapor products more economically viable than tobacco products.

Open/reusable systems that are more cost effective, use fewer resources and create less refuse and pollution.

In order to encourage vapor products as a safer alternative to combustible tobacco products, it is important to:

Protect access to flavors, which are an integral part of the vapor experience.
Protect access to online sales that allow consumers to procure the equipment and e-liquids that are best suited for their needs.
Protect access to all nicotine concentrations, which allow the vapor to tailor their experience to their needs which could range from high concentrations to aid in transitioning from smoking to nicotine free for enjoyment and maintenance.
Protect access to open, reusable container system that are more cost effective and environmentally friendly.

Maybe a national petition on change.org?

 

[zoiDman]

...

Maybe a national petition on change.org?

Sure.

But we we have to Let People know that the Petition is Running.

B&M and Online Retailers is how to Reach the Vast Majority of Vapers.

 

[caramel]

Lessifer, if FDA's "safe vs. safer" trick worked so well against Swedish Match (who can actually afford lawyers), why do you think you would be more succesful at pushing the "safer" thing? Let's think about something else.

 

[caramel]

How about a "do not infringe" discourse instead of a "protect" one?