Does this seem right to you?
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Ok, first I admit that I only read the first 8 pages of this thread. Most of this is a pretty much moot point. Even if the only flavor that was available for vaping was liver with onions, the anti people would be screaming that we'd were trying to get kids to like that to be more mature.
It really doesn't matter how ejuice is marketed, the people that are against it will find or make up a reason to prove that it's wrong. Being outraged at something makes for a lot more media visibility than thinking and using common sense. Go look at the bottle of dish soap in your kitchen and I bet it has a picture of a fruit. Why is that not marketing to kids? Common sense says that we don't hand a bottle of soap to a kiddo and say " try this", but to the people trying to stop what we are doing, that rule doesn't apply.
Sadly the only thing that will change this is if society sees vaping as a better alternative to smoking. That's not going to happen as long as there are those out there that look at it as "nicotine = ......" and "You like something I don't like" have a bigger voice than us vapers do.
As long as we have a society that "we" being outraged at what "them" are doing makes money, this isn't going to change.
It really doesn't matter how ejuice is marketed, the people that are against it will find or make up a reason to prove that it's wrong. Being outraged at something makes for a lot more media visibility than thinking and using common sense. Go look at the bottle of dish soap in your kitchen and I bet it has a picture of a fruit. Why is that not marketing to kids? Common sense says that we don't hand a bottle of soap to a kiddo and say " try this", but to the people trying to stop what we are doing, that rule doesn't apply.
Sadly the only thing that will change this is if society sees vaping as a better alternative to smoking. That's not going to happen as long as there are those out there that look at it as "nicotine = ......" and "You like something I don't like" have a bigger voice than us vapers do.
As long as we have a society that "we" being outraged at what "them" are doing makes money, this isn't going to change.
I have missed nothing. I watched the posted senate hearing again just to see if I missed something. I have watched and read other similar meetings where people of position are discussing e-cigs. I have attended and listened carefully to local hearings and try to be as educated on this matter as I can be because this is highly important to me. Please don't assume that I am uneducated in this matter. It has been pointed out several times here that ANTZ have no intention to stop at these types of regulations. If we give them this (In the name of "not being stupid") we are indeed stupid because we have just shown them that we are more then willing to bend over and let them do as they wish. They will shred vaping as we know it or decimate it completely. I stand by my position!! I want the whole package. In the future, when vaping is past these hurdles ( I firmly believe we will weather this storm) if individual vape related companies are questioned about their marketing techniques so be it, but right now I think we need to stand by our brothers. If I thought for one minute that this was the only issue and if settled on we would be good, maybe (still a big maybe) I would support label restriction. Thankfully, there are others like me that are weary enough to realize that marketing is just one angle the ANTZ are using for their agenda!
I know this doesn't have anything to do with vaping and a comparison to what other products get to do won't necessarily help us but I have to mention this because it is just one example of how lopsided the marketing is in this country. I was watching TV and the commercial for Subaru Legacy came on. My granddaughter ( she is 5) told her Dad that she wanted to drive just like that kid. . If I read that safety boards made Subaru change that commercial I would say Ok, but if they used it to try to show that all car ads are geared toward attracting kids therefore all car companies must suffer I would be outraged.
We are not "Giving" them Anythem Jode.
Because Cartoon Charactors or Images of Adolescents on Labels of e-Liquids are not going to be Allowed Anyway. There Isn't a House or Senate Member who would even Remotely Consider fighting for something like this.
All you are doing is Giving Policy Makers who are Against e-Cigarettes a Stronger Argument for More Restrictions with the Uninformed Voting Public.
And since Flavor Bans are Intertwined with Marketing to Minors, it makes Fighting for Less Restrictive Flavor Bans Harder.
they are going for the strongest restrictions possible and then some.
i have watched 'the video'. they already think they have the green light
to go all the way.
there will be no less restrictive regulations. this is an all or nothing deal.
vape often,vape proudly,vape without remorse.
regards
mike
P.S. i do hope i am wrong but there is nothing to indicate otherwise.
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Seeing the FDA Deeming as "All or Nothing" is about the Last Thing that I see. And I believe that there are Areas where there are Winnable Fights.
And yes, We all Hope you are Wrong Mike.
at this point in time name one.
i'm waiting for the waiting period after the deeming reg.'s come
out to get a better grip on what needs to be done.
regards
mike
Limits on Nicotine Levels is a Good Example. I know that Many are Pushing for 12mg/ml to be the Maximum Level Allowed.
We Might Not be able to get 100mg/ml. But think getting 24mg/ml or maybe even 36mg/ml is Very Winnable.
if they are in fact still on the table.
supposedly the deeming reg.'s are to be released this month.
i think we will have to wait and see whats in them.
like i said i hope i am wrong. i have always taken the doom
and gloom approach as my old age has taught me its not
what you see them doing that counts. its what they actually do.
regards
mike
Nicotine Levels are Definitely on the Table.
If we take an All or Nothing approach to something like Nicotine Levels, and Force an Up/Down vote on 12mg/ml or No Limits on Nicotine mg/ml, we will be Soundly Defeated.
Smarter to Fight for a Nicotine Max Level (so the Max Limit people get what they want) but make the Max Limit something that People can Actually use to Switch to e-Cigarette from Cigarettes.
BTW - Since I sited something where All or Nothing is Not a Good Approach. I will Also site something where All or Nothing has to be Done.
Closed System Cartridges.
This has to be Countered 100%. And there is No Form of Concession that I have seen that I would be Willing to Support.
Closed System Cartridges.
This has to be Countered 100%. And there is No Form of Concession that I have seen that I would be Willing to Support.
I'm afraid that the vapors who have sided with the devil hoping they will be put in cool section of hell and the regulations won't affect them are going to be quite upset when it's all said and done. There is no cool side of hell. The vapor industry has been free from regulations all this time and it has grown has become safer and better very quickly with advancements in technology every day. Say goodbye to that. Say goodbye to choices. Say goodbye to 1000s of online juice shops and 1000s of brick and mortar shops. Say hello to increased prices and watch as people go back to smoking because vaping is no longer a better financial alternative. Everything this industry has achieved is about to be broken. Thanks to sell outs in our own community.
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i think we should wait until the reg.'s actually come out and see
whats left on the table at this point.
if they are due out this month as some have stated the i's are dotted and the t's crossed.
regards
mike
I would Like to see People getting Active about Deeming, Contacts their Reps and becoming active in groups like CASAA and SFATA now. Rather then Waiting until the Final Rules are Submitted.
But I imagine that Most people will wait.
i will be active on the local level. i have been and will
be active on the national level.
its hard to write your Congress at this point until
we know where the goal posts will be.
regards
mike
There are more vapors than people wanting regulations if we just all stood together and was as loud and annoying as the opposing party then we wouldn't have to negotiate anything.
First off, my apologies, should have added this to my previous post, but I may go off on a rant here.
Can I say at the outset that I don't want to see anyone getting hurt or injured, be they kids, teenagers or adults, but the safety issues surrounding e-liquid has to be put into perspective. Firstly, the number of incidents involving e-liquid are increasing, but so are the numbers of people taking up vaping, I would expect a coloration between the increasing numbers of vapers and the rising numbers of accidents, unfortunately this true of any activity that involves a risk (everything we do has some sort of risk associated with it)
A few months ago I saw a report published (which I didn't save, unfortunately) from a Scandinavian country listing the calls to the emergency services, over a fixed period of time, about poisonous/toxic household chemicals - including e-liquid. Now the list was made up of between 15-20 different household chemicals and can you guess what was at the bottom of the list, yes e-liquid and the number of calls made regarding e-liquid were minute compared to calls about the other substances. Bleach, for example, has no fancy labelling that you'd expect would attract kids, but unfortunately accidents with this chemical and others vastly outweigh those by e-liquid, are there any calls to impose further regulation on these, not that I've heard of. The only reason vaping is being targeted like this is that Governments, Pharmaceutical and big Tobacco companies are scared of loosing their revenue streams, simple as that. They don't give a rats
about our health or our safety where this issue is concerned, because they are in fear of loosing billions, THAT IS THEIR ONLY WORRY.
Can I say at the outset that I don't want to see anyone getting hurt or injured, be they kids, teenagers or adults, but the safety issues surrounding e-liquid has to be put into perspective. Firstly, the number of incidents involving e-liquid are increasing, but so are the numbers of people taking up vaping, I would expect a coloration between the increasing numbers of vapers and the rising numbers of accidents, unfortunately this true of any activity that involves a risk (everything we do has some sort of risk associated with it)
A few months ago I saw a report published (which I didn't save, unfortunately) from a Scandinavian country listing the calls to the emergency services, over a fixed period of time, about poisonous/toxic household chemicals - including e-liquid. Now the list was made up of between 15-20 different household chemicals and can you guess what was at the bottom of the list, yes e-liquid and the number of calls made regarding e-liquid were minute compared to calls about the other substances. Bleach, for example, has no fancy labelling that you'd expect would attract kids, but unfortunately accidents with this chemical and others vastly outweigh those by e-liquid, are there any calls to impose further regulation on these, not that I've heard of. The only reason vaping is being targeted like this is that Governments, Pharmaceutical and big Tobacco companies are scared of loosing their revenue streams, simple as that. They don't give a rats
about our health or our safety where this issue is concerned, because they are in fear of loosing billions, THAT IS THEIR ONLY WORRY.
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And that is exactly why your not going to get just some minor regulations like labels and keep the rest. The intent is to damage the industry to the point of bringing the money Lost back into the folds.
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