Does this seem right to you?

[zoiDman]

From here: http://www.fda.gov/downloads/TobaccoProducts/NewsEvents/UCM397724.pdf

"FDA’s proposed rule also would include tobacco product components or parts that are used in the consumption of a tobacco product, like e-cigarette cartridges. It would not include tobacco product accessories, like cigar cases."

This is True. If you Market things to be Used with a Tobacco Product, then they can Fall Under FDA Regulations.

And if you Include Hardware with a Tobacco Product, then it Will Definitely fall under FDA Authority.

And the Big Reason the FDA wants to do this Is Not to somehow Stop People from buying or Using hardware. Because the FDA Knows it Can't do this because Products can be Marketed with No Intended Use.

No, what the FDA is Trying/Going to succeed in doing is Drastically Reduce your Ability to Find Hardware on the Internet.

Spoiler: Pop Quiz

How can the FDA Eliminate all these Problems it will have regarding Hardware?

 

[Lessifer]

This is True. If you Market things to be Used with a Tobacco Product, then they can Fall Under FDA Regulations.

And if you Include Hardware with a Tobacco Product, then it Will Definitely fall under FDA Authority.

And the Big Reason the FDA wants to do this Is Not to somehow Stop People from buying or Using hardware. Because the FDA Knows it Can't do this because Products can be Marketed with No Intended Use.

No, what the FDA is Trying/Going to succeed in doing is Drastically Reduce your Ability to Find Hardware on the Internet.

Spoiler: Pop Quiz

How can the FDA Eliminate all these Problems it will have regarding Hardware?

I hope you're right, and under the same vein, I hope they live 0mg liquid alone too, I just don't see it happening.

Until I can't anymore, I'm going to advocate for a non-tobacco product, non-medical classification. Consumer good works for me, possibly supplement.

The justification for a "tobacco product" classification is weak at best. They know that, it's why they went for medical first. I'm hoping that someday, a judge decides that vapor products are not medicinal, or tobacco.

 

[zoiDman]

I hope you're right, and under the same vein, I hope they live 0mg liquid alone too, I just don't see it happening.

Until I can't anymore, I'm going to advocate for a non-tobacco product, non-medical classification. Consumer good works for me, possibly supplement.

The justification for a "tobacco product" classification is weak at best. They know that, it's why they went for medical first. I'm hoping that someday, a judge decides that vapor products are not medicinal, or tobacco.

Getting to 0mg and being able to Use an RBA/RDA/TRA is a Pretty Safe Bet that you will never have to Deal with the FDA.

And Flavoring/Sweeteners are Safe because their Primary Use in Foods, Beverages and Candies. So there Isn't really a Way for the FDA to Touch them. Unless they are Marketed to be Used with a "Tobacco Product". Which they Rarely are.

BTW - Not going to Take a Stab at the Pop Quiz Question?

Remember: Know Thy Enemy.

 

[Lessifer]

Getting to 0mg and being able to Use an RBA/RDA/TRA is a Pretty Safe Bet that you will never have to Deal with the FDA.

And Flavoring/Sweeteners are Safe because their Primary Use in Foods, Beverages and Candies. So there Isn't really a Way for the FDA to Touch them. Unless they are Marketed to be Used with a "Tobacco Product". Which they Rarely are.

BTW - Not going to Take a Stab at the Pop Quiz Question?

Remember: Know Thy Enemy.

Yes, VG will always be available, as will PG and flavorings. I'm not so sure about premixed 0mg e-liquid. Some people may not care too much about that, I do, even though I don't use it.

As for how the FDA will deal with the hardware, I assume they will stay true to form and decide that they have jurisdiction over everything, instruct the ATF/Customs to seize shipments, and then let the courts sort it out later if anyone complains.

 

[zoiDman]

...

As for how the FDA will deal with the hardware, I assume they will stay true to form and decide that they have jurisdiction over everything, instruct the ATF/Customs to seize shipments, and then let the courts sort it out later if anyone complains.

But that would Involve Lawyers and Lawsuits. And the FDA or Customs doesn't have the Manpower to Run Around checking every Package. Or reading Every Product Description on every Website.

There is a Much Simpler Way. And it Solves some of the Other "Problems" that the FDA will Have.

It's Actually Beautiful. In a Diabolic Way that is.

 

[beckdg]

I hope you're right, and under the same vein, I hope they live 0mg liquid alone too, I just don't see it happening.

Until I can't anymore, I'm going to advocate for a non-tobacco product, non-medical classification. Consumer good works for me, possibly supplement.

The justification for a "tobacco product" classification is weak at best. They know that, it's why they went for medical first. I'm hoping that someday, a judge decides that vapor products are not medicinal, or tobacco.

I believe in one sense they will leave it alone. In the sense that we'll still be able to purchase pg to treat cow udders, vg for hand soap and bakery flavors without constraint.

But if we put a picture of a murdered strawberry on a label of these ingredients mixed, we'll be asking for trouble.

Tapatyped

 

[caramel]

But that would Involve Lawyers and Lawsuits.

Paid by you and your tax money. What's not to like? (if you're FDA that is).

Anyway this is the only possible way to deal with them.

Here recent example re labeling:

U.S. tobacco companies drop lawsuit vs FDA over labeling| Reuters

 

[Rossum]

You have to Remember, before e-Cigarettes, there Really wasn't Nicotine in a PG:VG solution. All nicotine Individuals could buy for Recreational Use came in the Form of Chopped Up Plant Matter.

And gum.

Gum that was (and continues to be) sold in several fruity flavors; flavors that obviously appeal to The Children and are designed to lead them into a lifetime of Nicotine Addiction.

 

[mshinall]

Ordered some G2 Mr cookie from Giant vapes the other day. They have changed the label. Seems there entire line is less cartooney now. BTW, the flavor is awesome. Kinda like a buttery sugar cookie.

 

[zoiDman]

And gum.

Gum that was (and continues to be) sold in several fruity flavors; flavors that obviously appeal to The Children and are designed to lead them into a lifetime of Nicotine Addiction.

Regular Gum? Or Nicotine Gum?

 

[Rossum]

I've been to ALL the retailers in my area.
And that's a lot.

And I brought them CASAA cards and encouraged them to get a display case from CASAA as well.

Some of them had no idea what was going on in the legal realm.
And some of them did, but didn't seem to care.

But a few of them were on top of it.
That's a lot too few though.

The entire exercise deflated me.
And I'm not sure I have recovered yet.

If I were a vapor-products retailer, I would offer a 5% or even 10% discount to any customer that could show evidence that he's a CASAA member.

Lots of gun shops do that sort of thing with NRA membership, and unlike CASAA membership, NRA membership is NOT free.

Unfortunately, I think the vape industry is simply too young and immature to have gotten their act together yet.

 

[Rossum]

Regular Gum? Or Nicotine Gum?

I meant nicotine gum.

I thought that was apparent from the context?

 

[zoiDman]

Ordered some G2 Mr cookie from Giant vapes the other day. They have changed the label. Seems there entire line is less cartooney now. BTW, the flavor is awesome. Kinda like a buttery sugar cookie.

Yeah... No One can hold this Bottle up during a Senate Hearing and say that they have concerns that the label is Targeting Minors.

 

[Rossum]

Closed System Cartridges should be what ALL Vapers Fear and should be Worried about.

I suspect we will at some point get truly effective closed systems, but only once BT and BG has figured out how to make at least as much money from them as they do from combustible tobacco products.

 

[Rossum]

I just want the Next Generation of People who are Trying to get Off Cigarettes to have a Fighting Chance. And to have the Improvement in their Health that I have had in Mine.

What are you, some kind of Altruist?

 

[zoiDman]

I meant nicotine gum.

I thought that was apparent from the context?

I thought you were. But I think I would check to make sure you weren't Pulling my leg.

 

[zoiDman]

What are you, some kind of Altruist?

No... I'm just Trying to work off those 10,000 Bad Karma points I got with the Seeing Eye Dog / Ford F250 Incident.

 

[caramel]

I meant nicotine gum.

I thought that was apparent from the context?

There is a growing sentiment here that zoid needs to up his nic.

 

[Rossum]

Yeah... No One can hold this Bottle up during a Senate Hearing and say that they have concerns that the label is Targeting Minors.

Right, that's a classy label, which as Andria pointed out earlier, is Exactly what Does appeal to the teens that are most likely to take up vaping to be "cool" rather than to quit smoking.

 

[zoiDman]

Right, that's a classy label, which as Andria pointed out earlier, is Exactly what Does appeal to the teens that are most likely to take up vaping to be "cool" rather than to quit smoking.

I guess it just Goes to Show that you Can't Satisfy or Placate Everyone.

BTW - I wonder what the Coming Standardized FDA Approved Labels will look like?