Does this seem right to you?

[FlamingoTutu]

In order to encourage vapor products as a safer alternative to combustible tobacco products, it is important to:

Protect access to flavors, which are an integral part of the vapor experience.
Protect access to online sales that allow consumers to procure the equipment and e-liquids that are best suited for their needs.
Protect access to all nicotine concentrations, which allow the vapor to tailor their experience to their needs which could range from high concentrations to aid in transitioning from smoking to nicotine free for enjoyment and maintenance.
Protect access to open, reusable container system that are more cost effective and environmentally friendly.

Maybe a national petition on change.org?

Me likes! Where do I sign?

BTW, I was reading along the other night but not signed in when Steve arrived on scene. Husband wanted to know what I was laughing so hard about. At least he's consistent. Gonna bite him in the .... one of these days.

You guys have been making excellent points, tip of the hat to you.

 

[Lessifer]

Lessifer, if FDA's "safe vs. safer" trick worked so well against Swedish Match (who can actually afford lawyers), why do you think you would be more succesful at pushing the "safer" thing? Let's think about something else.

Mostly because I hold onto the hope that it's not too late to have vapor products classified as something other than tobacco products. "Safer" tobacco products are a regulatory mess.

Vapor products are not tobacco products, they are a safer alternative to tobacco products which may or may not contain nicotine.

In order to encourage vapor products as a safer alternative to combustible tobacco products, it is important to:

Protect access to flavors, which are an integral part of the vapor experience.
Protect access to online sales that allow consumers to procure the equipment and e-liquids that are best suited for their needs.
Protect access to all nicotine concentrations, which allow the vapor to tailor their experience to their needs which could range from high concentrations to aid in transitioning from smoking to nicotine free for enjoyment and maintenance.
Protect access to open, reusable container system that are more cost effective and environmentally friendly.


"do not infringe" is a defensive stance.

 

[FlamingoTutu]

Sure.

But we we have to Let People know that the Petition is Running.

B&M and Online Retailers is how to Reach the Vast Majority of Vapers.

Perhaps approach MBV for one. They at least say something about the fight. I think Discount Vapers does too. Maybe go through the sellers list here on ECF...

 

[Lessifer]

Eh, I'm not in marketing/public policy, so I'm sure there are better writers out there who can get our message across without conceding things like underage sales and marketing, and without trying to defend against lies. I do think it is better to fight for positive aspects than to defend against negative ones.

 

[caramel]

"do not infringe" is a defensive stance.

NRA won through talking about infringement of rights, not protection of guns.

 

[Lessifer]

NRA won through talking about infringement of rights, not protection of guns.

Well, protecting your 2nd amendment right is a pretty strong message. America loves its Bill of Rights.

I wish there was a "right to consume whatever you want" but alas there is not.

 

[caramel]

C'mon guys. Help Sen. Tom Cole. It's the best chance we have. I can definitely live with istick, nautilus and caramel juice. make that provari and kayfun for those looking for more durable goods.

 

[FlamingoTutu]

Eh, I'm not in marketing/public policy, so I'm sure there are better writers out there who can get our message across without conceding things like underage sales and marketing, and without trying to defend against lies. I do think it is better to fight for positive aspects than to defend against negative ones.

Agreed. I think people can add bits and pieces to what you wrote to round it out, like why we are fighting and what is trying to be taken away from us at this point, mostly proposed legislation.

Caramel, all due respect, and I see where you're coming from, but we're not the NRA, lol. We are a group of adults quitting smoking, abstaining from smoking and/or trying to keep the whole vaping option open to future vapers have the same opportunities we have now, not BT's version of it.

 

[caramel]

Well, protecting your 2nd amendment right is a pretty strong message. America loves its Bill of Rights.

I wish there was a "right to consume whatever you want" but alas there is not.

There used to be one.

"It has been objected also against a Bill of Rights, that, by enumerating particular exceptions to the grant of power, it would disparage those rights which were not placed in that enumeration; and it might follow by implication, that those rights which were not singled out, were intended to be assigned into the hands of the General Government, and were consequently insecure. This is one of the most plausible arguments I have ever heard against the admission of a bill of rights into this system; but, I conceive, that it may be guarded against. I have attempted it, as gentlemen may see by turning to the last clause of the fourth resolution."

"The exceptions here or elsewhere in the constitution, made in favor of particular rights, shall not be so construed as to diminish the just importance of other rights retained by the people; or as to enlarge the powers delegated by the constitution; but either as actual limitations of such powers, or as inserted merely for greater caution."

James Madison
4th President of the United States

 

[caramel]

We are a group of adults quitting smoking, abstaining from smoking and/or trying to keep the whole vaping option open to future vapers have the same opportunities we have now, not BT's version of it.

We're doing it all wrong, according to pro's we should be chewing carrots instead:

6 Things to Do Instead of Smoking Cigarettes

I'm sure they know the long term effects of chewing carrots 20 times per day......

 

[Lessifer]

C'mon guys. Help Sen. Tom Cole. It's the best chance we have. I can definitely live with istick, nautilus and caramel juice. make that provari and kayfun for those looking for more durable goods.

I support moving the grandfather date, if vapor products are deemed as tobacco products, but I also feel it's a bit like giving up.

 

[caramel]

I support moving the grandfather date, if vapor products are deemed as tobacco products, but I also feel it's a bit like giving up.

It's the best "Plan B" we have. I see absolutely no reason to not support it. It changes a date (in our favour) without "deeming" anything about vapes.

 

[Lessifer]

It's the best "Plan B" we have. I see absolutely no reason to not support it. It changes a date (in our favour) without "deeming" anything about vapes.

Let me rephrase that, I support moving the grandfather date, and have written my representatives(fat lot of good that will do) expressing as much. However, that only helps us if the deeming regs go through, and I think that is a fight that we should not abandon, which is what we are discussing here. Although perhaps this should take place in its own thread.

 

[FlamingoTutu]

Are you saying you want to open a petition thread to write it?

 

[Lessifer]

Are you saying you want to open a petition thread to write it?

As much as the idea of drafting a document by committee makes me queasy, that's probably better than continuing it in this thread. I'll work on getting a start, then post a thread and put the link in here. Might be a little while though.

 

[caramel]

Sounds good. Let's get back to our cookies. Zoid, are you still around? I haz fortune cookies.

 

[FlamingoTutu]

As much as the idea of drafting a document by committee makes me queasy, that's probably better than continuing it in this thread. I'll work on getting a start, then post a thread and put the link in here. Might be a little while though.

Sounds good. I'm sure others can give you some suggestions through the night on it.

Caramel. Gonna get yourself in trouble.

 

[caramel]

Sounds good. I'm sure others can give you some suggestions through the night on it.

Caramel. Gonna get yourself in trouble.

I swear I didn't make it myself, It came up in google image search for "fortune cookie funny". ok I'll replace it. there's plenty of fortune cookies.

 

[Rossum]

I wish there was a "right to consume whatever you want" but alas there is not.

Of course there is. It's just that the Founders didn't think there was a need put it in writing and our current crop of rulers incorrectly pretends that the only rights you have are those which are specifically enumerated by some "law".

 

[Lessifer]

Here it is:
Would a change dot org petition help us? | E-Cigarette Forum