Does this seem right to you?

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YoursTruli

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After reading it the petition was not what I thought it was going to be about. I guess with the deeming regs due out this month, less then 2 weeks now, it feels way late in the game for that proposal. I mean don't get me wrong I agree 100% with what is being proposed for the petition but at this stage I though more so we would go after things that time wise we might just stand a chance at being heard beforehand.
 
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zoiDman

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After reading it the petition was not what I thought it was going to be about. I guess with the deeming regs due out this month, less then 2 weeks now, it feels way late in the game for that proposal. I mean don't get me wrong I agree 100% with what is being proposed for the petition but at this stage I though more so we would go after things that time wise we might just stand a chance at being heard beforehand.

I am Assuming that you are Referring to This Petition...

Okay, here's version three. I have to go run some errands, and I should probably get some actual work done today, so I'll be back on later. As always, comments, critiques, additions are welcome.

To Members of Congress:


Soon Congress will be presented with regulations proposing to deem electronic cigarettes and other vapor products as tobacco products, bringing them within the regulatory control of the FDA under the Family Smoking Prevention and tobacco Control Act.

We, the members of the vaping community, including users of vapor products, ex-smokers, current smokers, and friends and family of smokers and ex-smokers whose lives have been changed by vapor products, as concerned citizens, urge you to reject the proposed deeming regulations.

The classification of vapor products as tobacco products is tenuous at best. While some vapor products do contain nicotine, many do not, and this is where the link to tobacco ends. The goal of the FSPTCA is to minimize the effects of tobacco on public health. In 1976 Professor Michael Russell wrote: “People smoke for nicotine but they die from the tar.”1 Vapor products are free of tobacco, contain no tar, and are not combusted and as such are orders of magnitude less potentially harmful than combustible tobacco.2 In fact, more recent studies that look at nicotine, absent tobacco smoke, show that nicotine is possibly not addictive and could have potential health benefits related to treating Parkinson’s symptoms and staving off Alzheimer’s.3

The Federal government and each state have spent hundreds of millions over decades attempting to discourage people from smoking cigarettes. We now have a viable alternative to tobacco products that could do just that, through tobacco harm reduction. This disruptive technology has the potential to accomplish what Tobacco Control has failed to do for the past fifty years, unless it is smothered in its infancy. Vapor products, as a recreational consumer good, have the potential to replace combustible tobacco, keeping millions from potential tobacco related illnesses. According to recent CDC surveys, in the time frame that vapor products have been available, smoking rates in the United States have plummeted to an all time low.4 However, if vapor products are subjected to the same strict regulatory control intended to minimize harm from tobacco products, they could be rendered ineffectual due to the stifling nature of those regulations5.

By rejecting the classification of vapor products as tobacco products we can:

1 Protect access to flavors, which are an integral part of the vapor experience.6

2 Protect access to online sales that allow consumers to procure the equipment and e-liquids that are best suited for their needs.

3 Protect access to all nicotine concentrations, which allow the consumer to tailor their experience to their needs which could range from higher concentrations to aid in transitioning from smoking to nicotine free for enjoyment and maintenance.

4 Protect access to open, reusable container systems that are more cost effective and environmentally friendly.

Vapor products are not tobacco products, they are a safer alternative to tobacco products which may or may not contain nicotine. Vapor products are also a driving force behind thousands of small and medium businesses across the country, creating jobs and feeding the economy, many of which will not survive the exorbitant fee structure of tobacco product approval that has kept the cigarette market in the hands of only the major tobacco companies. The vapor product industry has already gained ground in self regulation by the formation of industry trade groups, and through the active involvement of the consumers.7 Instead of relegating vapor products to tobacco control, a new category of product regulation can be implemented, one that could inspire innovation along with public health and safety. The best way to protect this life altering technology is to not place it under the auspices of the FSPTCA, by not deeming vapor products as tobacco products.

Cited References

1 Russell M. Low-tar medium-nicotine cigarettes: a new approach to safer smoking. British Medical Journal 1976;1:1430-1433

2 IJERPH | Free Full-Text | Nicotine Levels and Presence of Selected Tobacco-Derived Toxins in Tobacco Flavoured Electronic Cigarette Refill Liquids

3 Nicotine, the Wonder Drug? | DiscoverMagazine.com

4 Adult cigarette smoking rate overall hits all-time low| CDC Online Newsroom | CDC

5 CASAA: April 2014

6 Big Survey 2014 - Initial Findings Eliquid | Vaping.com

7 CASAA.org AEMSA.org SFATA.org

Additional Resources:

http://notblowingsmoke.org

E-cigarettes generate high levels of aldehydes only in “dry puff” conditions (irrespective of the power levels)

The research behind giving up cigarettes: a Q&A with leading expert Peter Hajek - On Health

EPA & FDA: Vapor Harmless to Children - Minnesota Vapers AdvocacyMinnesota Vapers Advocacy

Evaluation of the cytotoxic potential of e-cigarette vapor on cultured cardiac cells: a new study

Clinical Research: Electronic Cigarettes

BMC Public Health | Abstract | Peering through the mist: systematic review of what the chemistry of contaminants in electronic cigarettes tells us about health risks

E-cigarette research, studies and papers - 2014

What 20 REAL Experts Say About E-Cigs

Safety evaluation and risk assessment of electronic cigarettes as tobacco cigarette substitutes: a systematic review
 
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YoursTruli

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YoursTruli

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Bill has posted a few new pots in the FDA section

FDA posts new websites promoting their so-called "tobacco regulatory science" and scientists | E-Cigarette Forum

FDA posts new website “Tobacco Regulatory Science in Action” (and a new blog) to congratulate itself and its funding recipients (aka “tobacco regulatory scientists”), confuse the public about comparable risks of different tobacco (and vapor) products, and lobby for its proposed “deeming regulation” (that would ban >99.9% of nicotine e-cigs)
Tobacco Regulatory Science in Action: In the Researchers' Own Words

FDA’s New Research Videos on E-Cigarettes, Nicotine and Cigarillos | FDA Voice


FDA posts purportedly “Scientific Publications by FDA Staff” on tobacco and vapor products, most of which are fear mongering propaganda to confuse the public about product risks, and most of which is intended to lobby for FDA’s “deeming regulation” Scientific Publications by FDA Staff


FDA posts new website to search for FDA funded propaganda (aka Tobacco Regulatory Research Projects) that misrepresents the health risks of different tobacco and vapor products and/or the demographics of different tobacco and vapor product consumers (to confuse and lobby for FDA’s proposed “deeming regulation” and other regulatory goals) CTP - Supported Tobacco Regulatory Research Projects
 
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zoiDman

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and now this......

FDA rejects dozens of Substantial Equivalence (SE) reports in May | E-Cigarette Forum
FDA reports that, in May, FDA issued 11 Not Substantially Equivalent (NSE) orders, FDA issued 1 Refuse-to-Accept letter for SE, and that companies withdrew 29 SE reports from the review process (that were likely due to FDA intimidation)

Tobacco Product Marketing Orders

This Week in CTP – June 12, 2015

...just ugh...............

Yeah... Here is a Copy of the Letter the HSS sent Discount Tobacco in Texas...

http://www.fda.gov/downloads/Tobacc...baccoProductReviewandEvaluation/UCM446570.pdf
 

Lessifer

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After reading it the petition was not what I thought it was going to be about. I guess with the deeming regs due out this month, less then 2 weeks now, it feels way late in the game for that proposal. I mean don't get me wrong I agree 100% with what is being proposed for the petition but at this stage I though more so we would go after things that time wise we might just stand a chance at being heard beforehand.

It came down to a decision between trying to craft something to fight pieces of a regulation that isn't finalized yet, nit picking over every detail, and hoping that we get something that at best puts lots of unnecessary restrictions and road blocks in place, OR attempt to bypass "tobacco control" altogether.

I figured if I'm going to make the attempt, I might as well go for what we really want, instead of what we might be okay with settling for.
 

YoursTruli

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What Exactly are you Looking For?

I was interested in reading some of the Scientific Publications by FDA Staff that pertained to ecigs, interested in the direction and focus. The majority of the ones cited are not even published for reading yet and those that are, all on pubmed.
 
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YoursTruli

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ok can't believe I missed this but some actual hopeful good news posted by Bill a few hours ago...

US House Appropriations Cmte bill would prevent FDA from banning e-cigs now on the market | E-Cigarette Forum

"Breaking News

US House Appropriations Cmte bill would prohibit FDA from enforcing the February 15, 2007 grandfather date for newly deemed tobacco products (including e-cigarettes), move grandfather date to issuance of Final Rule for Deeming Regulation (allowing newly deemed tobacco and e-cigarette products now on the market to remain legal, but require FDA approval of PMTA’s for new products after Final Rule issuance).

http://appropriations.house.gov/upl...c-ap-fy2016-agriculture-subcommitteedraft.pdf (Section 747, page 86)

Please note this appropriations bill would essentially enact Rep. Tom Cole’s bill (HR 2058) into law.


The ANTZ just found out, and are going nuts."
 

zoiDman

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ok can't believe I missed this but some actual hopeful good news posted by Bill a few hours ago...

US House Appropriations Cmte bill would prevent FDA from banning e-cigs now on the market | E-Cigarette Forum

"Breaking News

US House Appropriations Cmte bill would prohibit FDA from enforcing the February 15, 2007 grandfather date for newly deemed tobacco products (including e-cigarettes), move grandfather date to issuance of Final Rule for Deeming Regulation (allowing newly deemed tobacco and e-cigarette products now on the market to remain legal, but require FDA approval of PMTA’s for new products after Final Rule issuance).

http://appropriations.house.gov/upl...c-ap-fy2016-agriculture-subcommitteedraft.pdf (Section 747, page 86)

Please note this appropriations bill would essentially enact Rep. Tom Cole’s bill (HR 2058) into law.


The ANTZ just found out, and are going nuts."

To be Honest with you, I'm Not Sure what to make of this...


1 SEC. 747. For each tobacco product which the Sec2
2 secretary of Health and Human Services, by regulation under
3 section 901(b) of the Federal Food, Drug, and Cosmetic
4 Act, deems to be subject to chapter IX of such Act, none
5 of the funds made available in this Act or any other Act
6 may be used to treat any reference in sections 905 and
7 910 of such Act to February 15, 2007, as other than a
8 reference to the effective date of the regulation under
9 which a tobacco product is deemed subject to the require
10 ments of such Act pursuant to section 901(b)(1) of such
11 Act, and any reference in such sections to 21 months after
12 the date of enactment of the Family Smoking Prevention
13 and Tobacco Control Act as other than a reference to 21
14 months after the date of such final deeming regulation.

http://appropriations.house.gov/upl...c-ap-fy2016-agriculture-subcommitteedraft.pdf

But I know the ALA is having a Hissy Fit over it.

American Lung Association Statement on House of Representatives Committee on Appropriations Action to Undermine Tobacco Control Act - American Lung Association
 
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wvducklady

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Don't deprive yourself of something you may really enjoy because of public views you may or may not agree with, buy it, put it in a plastic bottle and label it however you like. Mr. Cookie is quite good, I've got a friend who goes through a bottle of it a week and I must admit that until I read this thread I never once perceived the art work on the bottle to be marketed towards minors in any way.

YOUR perception is what matters here, don't let the public perception run yours over.
Nicely said :) I agree.
 
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YoursTruli

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To be Honest with you, I'm Not Sure what to make of this...


1 SEC. 747. For each tobacco product which the Sec2
2 secretary of Health and Human Services, by regulation under
3 section 901(b) of the Federal Food, Drug, and Cosmetic
4 Act, deems to be subject to chapter IX of such Act, none
5 of the funds made available in this Act or any other Act
6 may be used to treat any reference in sections 905 and
7 910 of such Act to February 15, 2007, as other than a
8 reference to the effective date of the regulation under
9 which a tobacco product is deemed subject to the require
10 ments of such Act pursuant to section 901(b)(1) of such
11 Act, and any reference in such sections to 21 months after
12 the date of enactment of the Family Smoking Prevention
13 and Tobacco Control Act as other than a reference to 21
14 months after the date of such final deeming regulation.

http://appropriations.house.gov/upl...c-ap-fy2016-agriculture-subcommitteedraft.pdf

But I know the ALA is having a Hissy Fit over it.

American Lung Association Statement on House of Representatives Committee on Appropriations Action to Undermine Tobacco Control Act - American Lung Association

Hissy fit indeed! (yeah for our side) It would mean anything that is now on the market would be grandfathered in instead of throwing us back to 2007 but Bill did say he would keep us up to date with more info
 

caramel

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To be Honest with you, I'm Not Sure what to make of this...


1 SEC. 747. For each tobacco product which the Sec2
2 secretary of Health and Human Services, by regulation under
3 section 901(b) of the Federal Food, Drug, and Cosmetic
4 Act, deems to be subject to chapter IX of such Act, none
5 of the funds made available in this Act or any other Act
6 may be used to treat any reference in sections 905 and
7 910 of such Act to February 15, 2007, as other than a
8 reference to the effective date of the regulation under
9 which a tobacco product is deemed subject to the require
10 ments of such Act pursuant to section 901(b)(1) of such
11 Act, and any reference in such sections to 21 months after
12 the date of enactment of the Family Smoking Prevention
13 and Tobacco Control Act as other than a reference to 21
14 months after the date of such final deeming regulation.

It reminds FDA that if they get too creative they will get defunded.
 

Ca Ike

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I don't know who she is, but she has colder eyes than a serial killer.

Andria
That is Diane Feinstein. The most cold, calculating , selfish ..... you will ever meet. She cares only about lining her pockets. She is the poster child for the saying " do as I say not as I do". I vote against her every election. She is very much a nanny state promoter worse than Hilary Clinton , nancy pelosi and Michele Obama combined.
 

Jode

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I was reading something on the forum yesterday that just made me shake my head. This person went into a vape shop- the owner wasn't in so the guy that normally doesn't work that section sold him some stuff. The prices weren't marked so the guy sold him some stuff for about a fourth of what it should have been. Said person was proud of himself because he got over on someone. :facepalm:

There is always going to be people that think it is ok to take advantage of others. That is until it happens to them, then it is a travesty!!
 
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