Don't lie to me
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One of my locals here in Adelaide had a bunch of Velocity clones for sale on the shelf. I asked them why they were $60 bucks because they were clones and that seems a bit high. The guy went on a rant about how clones are wrong and they would never sell clones and that they were all authentic. Pretty sure there were no zombie splatter authentic velocities haha. I don't get what the point of lying was. Clearly I knew they were clones. If I want a clone I'll buy it off fast tech for 10 bucks and get 6 to their 1 lol.
The mark up on jewelry is absurd, but it's not always controlled by the stores themselves. It's controlled by the jeweler, stone refineries, and the market price of said precious metals and stones. I mean the diamond industry is SO unbalanced because it's not that we're not mining enough of them, it's because the major buyers control the flow of outgoing diamonds and store what they don't sell. There's also political reasons for jewelry mark up, it used to be where the gold came from (nazi gold), then the focus shifted to diamonds from west Africa, where it still currently is. Then you have market value on .999% pure metals, which depends in a large way on how the NYSE is doing at the time. Remember when gold was going for almost $3,000/Troy oz. a few years back? And silver hit $50/Troy oz. but now both have dropped in half relatively in price per ounce. Basically what I'm saying is that $4,000 diamond & 14/18k gold is not indicative of market value. It's way too high.
On the subject of B&M's I have 3 on pretty much a 15 mile stretch of Route 9 in NJ from my house. Now one of them is awesome. It's more of a vapor lounge where a well known builder works. The prices there on mods & atties are very fair. Some of the hardware products they sell are the same price online (excluding shipping), while some are +$10-$20 above online cost. juice prices - atleast on the juices I've gotten there are the exact same as online, but you need to figure in tax. Even on high end mechs & RDA's their pricing was on point.
The second shop sells their hardware for almost double online costs & has a juice wholesaler make their own house line of stock. They sell for $6.99 for a 10ml & $18 for a 30ml. That's even worse than their hardware pricing considering what it costs them for the juice.
The third shop is kind of different. Definitely sales oriented, yet pricing is reasonable. Before the announce of the SX Mini v2, when the SX Mini was selling for $199 & $209 online, they were selling it for $209.99. However, their clones were marked up 400-500% & didn't really carry many high end products (SX was the best thing I've seen in their shop, I'm sure they have DNA 200 mods now). Juice prices were reasonable. The one thing that completely turned me away from them is that they were claiming 1:1 clones were authentic. Tried selling me a Castigator clone for $100, claiming it was authentic. Does that sound right to anyone?
At the end of the day, I'll buy from a store if they don't blatantly lie to me on something like a product being a clone or an authentic. After the saleskid told me it was an authentic mod for half the retail price, I walked out and never went back.
Most of us consumers forget that we need a 'decoder ring' to translate salespeach. Using the classic "Miracle on 34th Street" as an example, the real "miracle" was that an employee had knowledge of products beyond the walls of the store he was working in.
S: "That is not available"
T: We don't have that item in stock
S: "You can't buy it for THAT price"
T: We won't sell it for that price
S: "It only comes in this (color/configuration/etc.)"
T: We only have this in stock
S: "This item is better than that other item"
T: We don't stock that other item
S: "You don't want one of those"
T: We have a higher margin on another item
S: "This is a very popular item"
T: We are stuck with to many of these in stock
S: "This item is hard to get"
T: Expect a insane mark up
S: "That is not available"
T: We don't have that item in stock
S: "You can't buy it for THAT price"
T: We won't sell it for that price
S: "It only comes in this (color/configuration/etc.)"
T: We only have this in stock
S: "This item is better than that other item"
T: We don't stock that other item
S: "You don't want one of those"
T: We have a higher margin on another item
S: "This is a very popular item"
T: We are stuck with to many of these in stock
S: "This item is hard to get"
T: Expect a insane mark up
Maybe they didn't know.
A lot of people got into the ecig industry because it was a good business opportunity....not because they know all about vaping.
I never assume anyone is lying to me, just that they might not really know the answer.
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Do some vapers in general just plan on being uninformed about diffferent business models?
B&Ms are not basing their prices to what is online. If they WANTED to be strictly online businesses, they wouldn't have opened a B&M.
They have rent to pay, utilities, local licensing, and many other expenses that online companies don't. That is what markup covers. It's a COMPLETELY DIFFERENT BUSINESS MODEL!
But B&Ms also revitalize neighborhoods where there were empty storefronts, and provide a place for vapers to stop in, grab things they need in real time, etc.
I'm always AMAZED by the constant bashing of B&Ms that goes on here. Let me give you a heads up.....when regs hit, like they did in AR and will soon be in IN, etc.
......When you see notices like this on online vendor sites:
"Why don't you sell to Texas or Arkansas?
A. Draconic laws prevent us from financially being able to ship to these states."
then you will wake up and start appreciating having a local B&M around, or 2 or 3.
Be careful who you bash, because tomorrow, you may be depending on your local a bit more.
These are people just trying to put food on the table like you or me. Yes, some are ripoffs, most probably aren't.
My other pet peeve is this need in some some folks to *one up* every B&M and every employee in a B&M just because all vendors arent' hobbyists who are on vaping forums.....I see so many bragging about how much they know ....... who cares?
This isn't some kind of caste system, is it?
They are busy running businesses, they can't sit online all day long reading posts about building coils and every nuance. That is what forums are for! (besides, one would have to have pretty low self esteem to feel the need to constantly bash B&Ms, B&M empployees, etc. (
People like that.....they should just open their own vaping B&M if they think they know everything or that it is all so easy.
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I think it's possible that vaping might turn some people into self righteous snobs. Has Dr F looked into a possible connection?
II don't waste their time with stupid questions.
Andria
You probably meant you don't take up their time with questions. Because there are no stupid questions, and it is never a waste of time to ask them.
If a person wants to open a vape B&M then they had better know what the hell their doing. Vape stores are unique in that they're specialty shops, they carry products intended for one specific purpose only. If I were to go into a shoe store and ask the manager why they only carry nike's in one color and get told they only come in one color you bet your sweet patootie they just lost me as a customer. If you don't know your products in a specialty shop or you lie about your product you have no business being in business.
I've tried to do computer support before... trust me, there ARE stupid questions, and there probably ARE "blondes" who put white-out on the monitor. And there ARE prople who should probably just take their PC back to the store because they're too stupid to operate it (my mom is one of those, unfortunately).
Andria
Most do. With the way technology has been coming out, B&Ms have problems keeping up with inventory, let alone knowing *every* possible detail about every single vaping product.
They are also, as has already been pointed out, somewhat ham-strung by what their distributors send them.
B&Ms can't be Fasttech, there is a limited amount of shelf space and storage and $$ that is available for investment in inventory......and if you over-order, or order stuff that turned out to be something that has no longevity (because vapers are fickle and have shinyitis) then you are *stuck* with it. Sometimes they don't order *all the options* and only carry certain things. (some of us remember the protank I, and then fast on it's heels the protank II, and then the Protank that had replaceable drip tips where the previous ones didnt...imagine how many of the first kind B&Ms got stuck with, with products coming just weeks or a month after the first incarnation!)
I also see them being bashed for carrying newbie stuff like egos and CE4 clearos. THAT is their bread and butter. That is what people wanting to switch to vaping buy. Go look at actual sales worldwide....it's that kind of gear that has out-paced the sales of the more advanced user stuff.
What a lot of consumers who have never actually owned and operated a small business don't know is that things aren't quite as *simple* as they think.
At any rate, there are way too many threads where vape shops and their employees get bashed, IMHO. (Obviously, some other people have noticed it, too.)
At this time in our industry, given the restaints and laws that we are facing, I really don't think we can afford to be devisive.
So anyone who claims to be pro-vaping should probably not be bashing an entire segment of our industry anyway, IMHO.
It doesn't help us in any way at all. Constant posts about how B&Ms are filled with no-nothings (and have even been accused of proliferating unsafe vaping practices) are just putting flags out which will give the regulating agencies more incentive to CLOSE THEM DOWN.
Sounds like the OP could have nicely educated the B&M rather than assuming they were lying. I didn't realize the batteries were available individually (or the tanks) until I came upon a particular wholesaler that offered them that way. Most wholesalers only offer the kit.
Racehorse Posted basically this first.
I think a lot of these problems stem from the fact that the B&M's are probably
not ordering there stock from the internet. They are relying on what their
distributor tells them. I've got these here but only in kits. We also must consider
with so many devices on the market having expert knowledge of all of them
is near impossible. Remember that the next time you visit your friendly Ford,
Chevy,Chrysler,Dodge,Honda,Toyota,Nissan,Cadillac,Hyundai dealer.
Regards
Mike
I think a lot of these problems stem from the fact that the B&M's are probably
not ordering there stock from the internet. They are relying on what their
distributor tells them. I've got these here but only in kits. We also must consider
with so many devices on the market having expert knowledge of all of them
is near impossible. Remember that the next time you visit your friendly Ford,
Chevy,Chrysler,Dodge,Honda,Toyota,Nissan,Cadillac,Hyundai dealer.
Regards
Mike
I have found around here, a lot of the ones that are uninformed are the people that work there. I'm not saying that's the case here. Just seems like a lot of the people they hire are very inexperienced. Most here are probably just barely old enough to work there. I think that may be why some of these accidents occur. The people selling do not know anymore than the new vaper thats buying. Either way, you would have been right in walking out. Whether they are trying to rip you off or don't know what they're talking about.
B&M's can research what they order, online just as easily as we can. There should be no reason a B&M would know less than anyone of us here. I don't expect them to know about every possible product out there. But the products they carry? You betcha they better know and probably should know more than most of us here. The manager at my local is an ECF member, is active politcally and very well educated on products, building , battery safety, building supplies, wicking materials, atomizers both rebuildable and not, liquids and what's popular and what's not. He's limited as to what he can order but the guy is on top of his game and that's why he's the manager and why they've been able to open three more shops. They're succeeding because they excel at what they do.
Just to clear the air for me:
-24 hours out, I acknowledge that I overreacted, I was having a really bad morning and that just didn't help. It is absolutely possible that he just didn't know.
That said:
-I am not in the habit of bashing B&Ms, I actually try to support mine on a regular basis. I can't afford to vape at their prices solely, but I can throw a little money their way from time to time. That is why I was in there and was willing to pay a markup if they had the device I wanted. I've purchased all of my devices from them. And usually the guys that work there are great. I'll own that I don't like the one that was working yesterday quite as much, he comes off as pompous and that probably played into my reaction.
-I do think that employees of vape shops should be experts in what's out there. When the mod only is available on the Joyetech website, it is not a hidden little secret that no one knows about.
-24 hours out, I acknowledge that I overreacted, I was having a really bad morning and that just didn't help. It is absolutely possible that he just didn't know.
That said:
-I am not in the habit of bashing B&Ms, I actually try to support mine on a regular basis. I can't afford to vape at their prices solely, but I can throw a little money their way from time to time. That is why I was in there and was willing to pay a markup if they had the device I wanted. I've purchased all of my devices from them. And usually the guys that work there are great. I'll own that I don't like the one that was working yesterday quite as much, he comes off as pompous and that probably played into my reaction.
-I do think that employees of vape shops should be experts in what's out there. When the mod only is available on the Joyetech website, it is not a hidden little secret that no one knows about.
I don't know about others but I do know what *I* was looking for:
They claimed to have a fairly brisk business and were clearing out anything 'rebuildable' as the stuff was not selling. It seems many folks new to vaping (or not so new) have no interest in mid-2-high end gear or (as I've seen) most local shops carry very little to none of it as the market moves to fast for them to carry it. They likely can't carry high end gear at a reasonable price so just focus on the lower end stuff that moves well.
- I did not want to spend/invest more $$ than a carton of analogs cost
- There almost always is more markup involved in a bunch of separate items so I wanted a "kit" that included everything and therefore was known to work together
- The B&M I shopped at had VV and up stuff. (lots of mechs to)
They claimed to have a fairly brisk business and were clearing out anything 'rebuildable' as the stuff was not selling. It seems many folks new to vaping (or not so new) have no interest in mid-2-high end gear or (as I've seen) most local shops carry very little to none of it as the market moves to fast for them to carry it. They likely can't carry high end gear at a reasonable price so just focus on the lower end stuff that moves well.
My dad is almost like this. The man ran his own auto shop for years. He was asked to be in a an indy pit team as a mechanic. He can stand next to a running car and tell you exactly which small part isn't working just by listening to it. It doesn't matter what the mechanical device is, he can fix it when he it needs fixing. Put him on a computer and it's like watching the monkeys at the beginning of 2001: A Space Odyssey trying to figure out the monolith. In the end, he figured it out enough to watch The People of Walmart and epic fails on youtube.
Thank you, Racehorse. You took the words right out of my mouth.
As an employee of a vape B&M, I do take it a little personally when I see so many posters on here bashing B&M's.
Like you pointed out, and like I meant when I posted my Ron Swanson video: nothing is less fun than dealing with customers who believe they know more than you do as a sales associate, or as a vaper, in general. There have been times that certain customers tried to "one up" me in front of their friends (or even themself), but I notice it when it's happening and I don't let it bother me.
There is an inordinate amount of B&M bashing on these forums, and it always makes the posters come across as being the snobs and the know-it-alls instead of the company they're bashing. And it's not like we get to see THEIR side of the transaction or experience, only yours. And I'm sure if you're on here bashing a B&M, you're already biased and we're only getting your side of the story.
What I can't understand is why people feel the need to create these threads in the first place. Does it stroke your ego to trash talk a small business? I have been to countless restaurants where the food was crap and the service was subpar. Did I go home, get on Yelp or Foodie.com, and write a scathing review? No, I chalked it up to a bad experience, par for the course, decide not to eat there and moved on.
One last thing: no one, absolutely no one, is forcing you into these shops at gunpoint and MAKING you pay the prices they're asking. Vote with your wallet and not your mouth: simply don't go there.
Jeez, people. So much hate.
As an employee of a vape B&M, I do take it a little personally when I see so many posters on here bashing B&M's.
Like you pointed out, and like I meant when I posted my Ron Swanson video: nothing is less fun than dealing with customers who believe they know more than you do as a sales associate, or as a vaper, in general. There have been times that certain customers tried to "one up" me in front of their friends (or even themself), but I notice it when it's happening and I don't let it bother me.
There is an inordinate amount of B&M bashing on these forums, and it always makes the posters come across as being the snobs and the know-it-alls instead of the company they're bashing. And it's not like we get to see THEIR side of the transaction or experience, only yours. And I'm sure if you're on here bashing a B&M, you're already biased and we're only getting your side of the story.
What I can't understand is why people feel the need to create these threads in the first place. Does it stroke your ego to trash talk a small business? I have been to countless restaurants where the food was crap and the service was subpar. Did I go home, get on Yelp or Foodie.com, and write a scathing review? No, I chalked it up to a bad experience, par for the course, decide not to eat there and moved on.
One last thing: no one, absolutely no one, is forcing you into these shops at gunpoint and MAKING you pay the prices they're asking. Vote with your wallet and not your mouth: simply don't go there.
Jeez, people. So much hate.
Do some vapers in general just plan on being uninformed about diffferent business models?
B&Ms are not basing their prices to what is online. If they WANTED to be strictly online businesses, they wouldn't have opened a B&M.
They have rent to pay, utilities, local licensing, and many other expenses that online companies don't. That is what markup covers. It's a COMPLETELY DIFFERENT BUSINESS MODEL!
But B&Ms also revitalize neighborhoods where there were empty storefronts, and provide a place for vapers to stop in, grab things they need in real time, etc.
I'm always AMAZED by the constant bashing of B&Ms that goes on here. Let me give you a heads up.....when regs hit, like they did in AR and will soon be in IN, etc.
......When you see notices like this on online vendor sites:
"Why don't you sell to Texas or Arkansas?
A. Draconic laws prevent us from financially being able to ship to these states."
then you will wake up and start appreciating having a local B&M around, or 2 or 3.
Be careful who you bash, because tomorrow, you may be depending on your local a bit more.
These are people just trying to put food on the table like you or me. Yes, some are ripoffs, most probably aren't.
My other pet peeve is this need in some some folks to *one up* every B&M and every employee in a B&M just because all vendors arent' hobbyists who are on vaping forums.....I see so many bragging about how much they know ....... who cares?
This isn't some kind of caste system, is it?
They are busy running businesses, they can't sit online all day long reading posts about building coils and every nuance. That is what forums are for! (besides, one would have to have pretty low self esteem to feel the need to constantly bash B&Ms, B&M empployees, etc. (
People like that.....they should just open their own vaping B&M if they think they know everything or that it is all so easy.
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