dual coil?

[EvilGnome6]

I am not up with this particular concept, but from a purely engineering stand point, running anything inefficiently is never a good thing.

Engineers designing engines for drag racers would disagree. Same for engineers designing class A amplifiers for audiophile stereos. Both examples of very inefficient systems but necessary to achieve a higher level of performance. The inefficiency isn't necessarily a good thing, but it's often the only way to do it.

 

[Zen~]

Engineers designing engines for drag racers would disagree. Same for engineers designing class A amplifiers for audiophile stereos. Both examples of very inefficient systems but necessary to achieve a higher level of performance. The inefficiency isn't necessarily a good thing, but it's often the only way to do it.

Here's the difference though... with a class A amplifier it's easy to deliver enough current by having a massive transformer and filter caps... when you halve the impedance of a speaker, and you have enough current available for the wattage to double, as ohms law would require, then all is well... If the deisign lacks those big current pushers, then the amplifier clips... not good for the speakers to say the least!

In a PV, we cannot keep up with the current delivery when the impedance is halved, and then the whole thing collapses in terms of wattage from those coils... in theory, it should be better... but I go back to my original statement that the batteries we use have a finite current available at any moment in time... in the real world, with lower capacity and current delivery batteries... not so good.

In theory... in a perfect world with a CAR BATTERY as a source... these dual coils should be the bomb! With a pv? Yeah... not the greatest Idea I've heard...

 

[EvilGnome6]

In a PV, we cannot keep up with the current delivery when the impedance is halved, and then the whole thing collapses in terms of wattage from those coils... in theory, it should be better... but I go back to my original statement that the batteries we use have a finite current available at any moment in time... in the real world, with lower capacity and current delivery batteries... not so good.

I don't disagree about the capacity and current delivery of batteries. But there's no difference in current demand between a single 1.5 Ohm coil and two 3.0 Ohm coils wired in parallel. It's going to draw the same amperage and put out the same amount of power in heat.

 

[Zen~]

I don't disagree about the capacity and current delivery of batteries. But there's no difference in current demand between a single 1.5 Ohm coil and two 3.0 Ohm coils wired in parallel. It's going to draw the same amperage and put out the same amount of power in heat.

In theory, yes... but think about what you're saying, and the implications of that... hypotheticalls speaking, if the single 1.5 ohm coil draws 2 amps of current, and a pair of 3 ohm coils totalling 1.5 ohms shares that two amps of current... you now have two 3 ohm coils that are each getting 1 amp of current... in practice does a 3 ohm coil at 1 amp produce 1/2 the heat of a 1.5 ohm coil and does doubling the coils double the heat output in actual degrees?

There are assumptions being made regarding the BTU output of these coils under these conditions... yes... ohms law is a LAW... but ohms law fails to consider the thermo dynamics of the coils. There are other factors as well... in simple math, ohms law tells us certain things will happen electrically... but in the physical domain, how these translate into heat production are another matter entirely. measuring heat outputs in watts and assuming it means something which is relative to the matter is the problem here... how many BTU does a 1.5 ohm coil at 2 amps of current, compared to a 3 ohm coil at 1 amp of current... you have a higher resistance coil with 1/2 the current being delivered to it... I'm going to guess that translates to quite a bit less heat. It may be less than half, and if it is, there's your answer!

I should get out my bench supply, temperature probe and some nichrome wire and see how this fleshes out... it may be the only way we'll ever know.

One other thought, and that is the minimum temp required the vaporize PG/VG... even if it is a 50% reduction in heat in a perfect linear world... is that lower temp enough to vaporize the stuff?

Think about this... lets say in theory that a 1.5 ohm coil that's drawing 2 amps of current produces 200 degrees of heat... and a 3 ohm coil produces 100 degrees of heat with 1 amp of current available... then TWO of those coils side by side will not magically produce 200 degrees to remain equal... you have 100 degrees of heat spread out across a larger surface area... it may hit a few degrees higher... but it will not double!

This is much more than an ohms law problem, folks... this one requires an understanding of thermodynamics.

 

[EvilGnome6]

There are assumptions being made regarding the BTU output of these coils under these conditions... yes... ohms law is a LAW... but ohms law fails to consider the thermo dynamics of the coils.

I should get out my bench supply, temperature probe and some nichrome wire and see how this fleshes out... it may be the only way we'll ever know.

I'm certainly no expert in thermodynamics but I do have a background in electronics. Whether single coil or dual coil, P=IV so the total amount of power put out will be the same. Since were dealing with heating coils, there's very little loss as practically all the electrical energy is turned into heat. I don't expect there to be much difference in BTU generated but some practical experimentation on this would be revealing.

One other thought, and that is the minimum temp required the vaporize PG/VG... even if it is a 50% reduction in heat in a perfect linear world... is that lower temp enough to vaporize the stuff?

We do know that a single 3.0 Ohm coil will vaporize PG/VG since that's what the standard atomizer resistance is. The dual coil just throws two of them in a single cartridge.

Anyway, I hope you don't think I'm being willfully difficult in this discussion. I haven't tried either the Dual Coil or the Ikenvape cartomizers, yet so I don't have a vested interest in either. Some dual coils arrived in the mail today and I'll be ordering some Ikenvapes later for comparison. Regardless of how the science plays out, we're all in it for the best subjective experience. I'm just fascinated by the technical aspects of this right now.

 

[TexasT]

This has been an interesting and educational Thread and I thank all of you for increasing my knowledge of the equipment we use for vaping.

If you are able to do any practical testing I'd like to be able to see what you learn.

TT

 

[atavanhalen]

I just got my first 801 Fusion cartos from Isaac today... I can't imagine a better carto... these are pretty darned amazing right out of the boge-looking box... they sure don't perform like boge! I have to wonder what he's having them do that is so different from others!

Ya see, I am not saying that these are better per se, I am more saying that for me personally these get along very well with my vaping style and for the life of me I can not burn these things. No matter what I do or what cartos I use, I always burn them in no time but not so with these. Also, I wanted to say that these are nowhere near on par with an 801 fusion in the flavor department, but on the other hand people live with trade offs all the time and if this design can keep up with me and not burn and give me the throat hit that I can not usually get with a carto then I will buy them. That is why I chimed in here, because I am selfish and can only imagine how awesome of a job Isaac could do on these. I am not that guy that jumps on every bandwagon but on the other hand if I buy a small qty of something and try it out, and it works for me, then I am gonna use it and also share my experience. Most hyped things I have tried have been absolutely horrible for me personally and the only hyped things that I have actually purchased more of are the 306 and the dualies and I believe that if they stay around I will continue to buy them. Ok, I apologize for the long post, I am not great at getting a point across without rambling back and forth for a while. In closing I will say I do not understand the discussion that you and gnome are having, I might be able to if I spent a lil more time but it does not really matter to me because as long as these things work for my personally vaping habits and do not burn , then I do not really care how or why it works, just that it works. Do me a favor zen and if you get some of these at least give it a couple days before you make up your mind because it really does seem that these things break in after a bit of use.

 

[mwa102464]

I know one thing, I will have my DC's tomorrow and I plan on using them side by side with the V2, Fusion, and a Mega all on bottom fed Mods as well as my dripping Mods. I'm going to see what all the Hype is about then I'm going to give my own input on this discussion. I do however feel that separating the coil into two and dispersing the heat through a wrapped filling may be a good idea, I also think 4 coils may be even better than two, Only time will tell but if there is anyway I can take two of these dualies apart and put two of them together, re-wrapped into one, I will give my results as well but I'm not sure I can do it,, maybe I'm getting piggish wanting 4 who knows but for some reason I think it would really be super then again maybe 3 is the perfect number who the heck knows without trying it !

 

[Zen~]

Atavanhalen... I will give them a try at some point.

Mwa... I really look forward to your input.

 

[EvilGnome6]

I know one thing, I will have my DC's tomorrow and I plan on using them side by side with the V2, Fusion, and a Mega all on bottom fed Mods as well as my dripping Mods.

I'm looking forward to your impressions of the DC versus the V2.

 

[nbourbaki]

On my Darwin, the best carto by far is the Fusion. At the right power level the Fusion has the best flavor of any carto I've tried. For lower power devices, I really like the dualies. They don't bring out the flavor of a juice like the Fusion, but they hit like a mule. Awesome vapor production. I don't view this as a fad. Even with the quality issues, we're going to see a lot more of this type of carto.

 

[Zen~]

I'm blown away by the flavor of the 801 fusions... Absolutely amazing!

 

[mwa102464]

OK, I thought mine would be here today but it looks like they wont be here until Thurs now so I have squat to talk about till Thurs, I will report back Thurs to this thread.

 

[mwa102464]

Right on Zen, they really work great, I remember when Issac sent us 5 Beta crew these and I first tried one of them I was pretty impressed with the flavor, it's a great carto from the low 3.4 up to 4.2 the flavor is terrific on these, I had always thought they to would be great in a Mega as well and holding even more juice in them but as is there really are no complaints from these bad boyz

 

[doots]

I'm blown away by the flavor of the 801 fusions... Absolutely amazing!

I totally agree they are very good. I am finding at about 5.5v on my pro vari is just great.
The 510 Mega are also very good .

The DCs have been my favorites up until I got the 810 fusions..

I don't buy attys any longer. The cost on these cartos and their performance and cost far outweigh the higher cost of attys.. Of course in my opinion.

 

[5cardstud]

I know one thing, I will have my DC's tomorrow and I plan on using them side by side with the V2, Fusion, and a Mega all on bottom fed Mods as well as my dripping Mods. I'm going to see what all the Hype is about then I'm going to give my own input on this discussion. I do however feel that separating the coil into two and dispersing the heat through a wrapped filling may be a good idea, I also think 4 coils may be even better than two, Only time will tell but if there is anyway I can take two of these dualies apart and put two of them together, re-wrapped into one, I will give my results as well but I'm not sure I can do it,, maybe I'm getting piggish wanting 4 who knows but for some reason I think it would really be super then again maybe 3 is the perfect number who the heck knows without trying it !

That's what I did and they were close to the worst carto I've ever used. If it's possible they have a negative factor in the flavor and the vapor reminded me of my first 510 ecig with an atomizer on it..

 

[MsOceanCity]

That's what I did and they were close to the worst carto I've ever used. If it's possible they have a negative factor in the flavor

I hear ya with regard to the flavor! Now, for the record, I've only tried one, so far. Filled it with my favorite juice, stuck it on my GLV2 and immediately noticed the wonderful flavor I'm used to wasn't there. It didn't burn and lasted an hour longer than a regular sized carto, so that's good. But, lack of flavor and the fact that it mowed through my batteries has me discouraged .
Gonna try the next one with a strong juice, like TV's Geoff's Blend and see if I get the same results.

 

[atavanhalen]

I know one thing, I will have my DC's tomorrow and I plan on using them side by side with the V2, Fusion, and a Mega all on bottom fed Mods as well as my dripping Mods. I'm going to see what all the Hype is about then I'm going to give my own input on this discussion. I do however feel that separating the coil into two and dispersing the heat through a wrapped filling may be a good idea, I also think 4 coils may be even better than two, Only time will tell but if there is anyway I can take two of these dualies apart and put two of them together, re-wrapped into one, I will give my results as well but I'm not sure I can do it,, maybe I'm getting piggish wanting 4 who knows but for some reason I think it would really be super then again maybe 3 is the perfect number who the heck knows without trying it !

One guy took one apart pretty easy, he unwrapped it, cleaned it in an ultrasonic and rolled it back up and reassembled it so you might be able to,, but who knows.

 

[atavanhalen]

That's what I did and they were close to the worst carto I've ever used. If it's possible they have a negative factor in the flavor and the vapor reminded me of my first 510 ecig with an atomizer on it..

Its so crazy how much opinions can vary on these things, I think a lot of it is what a person is looking for in a carto, the flavor for me has been pretty awesome but I will give you the vapor, some of them do put out the kind of vapor that you see from a smoking everywhere or something.

 

[Zen~]

A buddy of mine has some coming, so I'll be able to check one or two out this weekend... I'll let you know what I think.