E-cig Nicotine, New Study at UVM

[dimco1]

This was an interesting interview 4/5/17 on our local CBS affiliate WCAX in Burlington VT.
Dr. John Hughes of the Vermont Center on Behavior and Health is leading the research at UVM., studying the levels of nicotine you still get and if you can still have withdrawals.

Understanding e-cigarettes

 

[snork]

He seems open minded and it surely would be an interesting study, but also seems completely clueless as to how an e-cigarette works.

 

[dimco1]

Agreed: This is from Dept. page at UVM. I like the bottom one from 2007 - lends some Cred. to his positive comments on Ecigs.

Awards and Honors
1994 Ove Ferno Award for Clinical Research in Nicotine and tobacco
1996 Council on Addiction Psychiatry, American Psychiatric Association
1998 Best Doctors in America
1999 Advisory Council, Center for Substance Abuse Treatment
2002 America's Top Psychiatrists
2002 Board of Directors, College on Problems of Drug Dependence
2007 Top 25 Most Cited tobacco Researcher

 

[Katya]

He seems open minded and it surely would be an interesting study, but also seems completely clueless as to how an e-cigarette works.

Indeed.

But at least he's trying.

 

[Jumpin' In...]

All I know is that I wouldn't want to stop for a week. I know I would get withdrawal symptoms.

 

[CarolT]

More of that "nicotine addiction" lie, that "could only be sustained by systematically ignoring all contradictory evidence."
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3116468/

 

[dimco1]

RE: CarolT,
So nicotine addiction isn't real..?
I'm just saying - I'm not sure what you're saying - know what I'm sayin'

 

[Painter_]

Here we go with the same debate about Nicotine addition.

 

[dimco1]

Wait a minute - now were doing math..?

I will respect this forum and back down on further debate. As a relative noob, I did not understand this argument existed, nor do I wish to participate in it. If I've fanned the flames, I apologize.

 

[Bill Godshall]

Please note that for the past 25 years John Hughes has received many millions of dollars from Big Pharma to study (and especially to recommend use of) NRT products.

When I and others criticized NRT's very low success rates (i.e. 95%) for smoking cessation, Big Pharma paid Hughes even more money to study (and of course strongly recommend) that smokers use two different NRT products simultaneously.

The NIH funded study thatHughes is now working on is a waste of taxpayer money, as its findings will be useless for public health (but it will likely generate more negative press coverage about vaping, as I'm sure Hughes will find something negative to say to ensure that NIH will give him more money in the future).

 

[Painter_]

Wait a minute - now were doing math..?

I will respect this forum and back down on further debate. As a relative noob, I did not understand this argument existed, nor do I wish to participate in it. If I've fanned the flames, I apologize.

You did nothing wrong. Every time this topic comes up we end up with a 100 page thread with people on both sides. Most of the studies that show that nicotine is addictive are from tobacco smoke. There are studies for NRT that show that it is about the same level of addictiveness as coffee. Then we will discuss the difference between dependence and addictive.

As for me I do not believe that nicotine is addictive outside of tobacco smoke. This believe stems from a time a couple of years ago where I mixed some juice up and forgot to add nicotine; at the time I was vaping 6 mg. I vaped over 50ml in almost a week until it was time to mix some more. Then I found my measured amount of nicotine still in the beaker that I poured it into to measure. I topped my bottle off with VG rather than the nicotine. I never noticed that for four days I did not have any nicotine. So then I mixed two two bottles one with nicotine and one without into unmarked bottles. I felt no withdraw regardless of which one I vaped. So based off my experience I do not believe that nicotine alone is addictive and the addiction is all in ones brain.

 

[Jumpin' In...]

You did nothing wrong. Every time this topic comes up we end up with a 100 page thread with people on both sides. Most of the studies that show that nicotine is addictive are from tobacco smoke. There are studies for NRT that show that it is about the same level of addictiveness as coffee. Then we will discuss the difference between dependence and addictive.

As for me I do not believe that nicotine is addictive outside of tobacco smoke. This believe stems from a time a couple of years ago where I mixed some juice up and forgot to add nicotine; at the time I was vaping 6 mg. I vaped over 50ml in almost a week until it was time to mix some more. Then I found my measured amount of nicotine still in the beaker that I poured it into to measure. I topped my bottle off with VG rather than the nicotine. I never noticed that for four days I did not have any nicotine. So then I mixed two two bottles one with nicotine and one without into unmarked bottles. I felt no withdraw regardless of which one I vaped. So based off my experience I do not believe that nicotine alone is addictive and the addiction is all in ones brain.

Interesting. So do you now vape 0 nic?

 

[Jumpin' In...]

Wait a minute - now were doing math..?

I will respect this forum and back down on further debate. As a relative noob, I did not understand this argument existed, nor do I wish to participate in it. If I've fanned the flames, I apologize.

If it is any consolation, I also did not know - and I've been around a while.

 

[Painter_]

Interesting. So do you now vape 0 nic?

Most of the time 0, some times .5 some times 1. A few of my juices taste better with it. Do I need it no, and I go days between vaping. If I am with people who smoke or vape, it keeps me from smoking.

 

[Katya]

I will respect this forum and back down on further debate. As a relative noob, I did not understand this argument existed, nor do I wish to participate in it. If I've fanned the flames, I apologize.

Oh yeah, it exists. Not really worth going there. It's complicated. Nicotine (alone) affects different people differently. We all know that. Nicotine in tobacco leaves + combustion is another can of worms. Whole tobacco alkaloids, MAOIs... you name it. The debate has been going on forever. Some people quit smoking the minute they get their first e-cig, then go to 0 nic, and many even quit vaping (and smoking) altogether. Others supplement vaping with snus or WTAs. Others can't quit smoking and become dual users.

Nicotine is addictive--so are caffeine, sugar, physical exercise, silly cat YouTube videos, alcohol, and smart phones. What's an addiction, anyway? I've been a social drinker my whole adult life; I have a glass of wine or a beer with my dinner almost every day--never became an alcoholic and I don't HAVE to have that drink. I just like it. But there are people who can't even be around alcohol without the risk of going down that rabbit hole after one drink.

There's no one size fits all when it comes to addictions. And everybody who tells you otherwise is not worth talking to.

 

[Just Me]

Physical exercise will never be one of my addictions!

 

[Tufur]

He seems open minded and it surely would be an interesting study, but also seems completely clueless as to how an e-cigarette works.

Agreed: This is from Dept. page at UVM. I like the bottom one from 2007 - lends some Cred. to his positive comments on Ecigs.

Awards and Honors
(snip)
2007 Top 25 Most Cited Tobacco Researcher

Please note that for the past 25 years John Hughes has received many millions of dollars from Big Pharma to study (and especially to recommend use of) NRT products.

When I and others criticized NRT's very low success rates (i.e. 95%) for smoking cessation, Big Pharma paid Hughes even more money to study (and of course strongly recommend) that smokers use two different NRT products simultaneously.

The NIH funded study thatHughes is now working on is a waste of taxpayer money, as its findings will be useless for public health (but it will likely generate more negative press coverage about vaping, as I'm sure Hughes will find something negative to say to ensure that NIH will give him more money in the future).

John Hughes appears to be very into cessation and intervention of any popular drug. He is moving into marijuana intervention as related to smoking. I found this 2005 paper by him that looks at how CDC-NIH money is distributed among Tobacco Control's areas of study. He complains how 'institutionalized' treatments are no longer studied for effectiveness. He is no Stan Glanz, but he is a stakeholder in attracting CDC-NIH grants. And if a little manipulation works, then so be it.

 

[CarolT]

RE: CarolT,
So nicotine addiction isn't real..?
I'm just saying - I'm not sure what you're saying - know what I'm sayin'

"Nicotine addiction" is a smear concocted by Tobacco Control to defame smokers. There's no comparison between it and real addiction. (They keep removing my link to a revealing video so I won't try to post it.) Now they've repurposed this smear to attack vapers, too.

 

[CarolT]

You did nothing wrong. Every time this topic comes up we end up with a 100 page thread with people on both sides.

Personally, I think it's better to have a 100 page thread than a dead forum with no one posting for days. Although I've noticed that people go off-topic and the last 60 pages are about food or something.

 

[dimco1]

Well certainly, the reason I joined ECF was to learn and I have absolutely done that from participation here. Nicotine is just another (and there's a lot) thing I don't know much about. It now strikes me as odd, after 39+ years of exposing myself to it... Until now, I have only ever considered that nicotine is "bad" and my "addiction" to it was the reason I smoked (analog free for 8mo.) "...Fascinating Captain..."