E-Cigarette Forum Discussion Thread

[John Phoenix]

It probably wasn't that alone... I'm thinking it was that and the symptoms thing from here (because the e-cig parts weren't edited out) not sure if there's anythng else I noticed but Fred could answer the why better than I can.

Yeah I went and fixed that again.. I did edit it the first time before I posted but just skimmed it and missed a bunch. I never intended to leave those in the first time. if you look at the post on here it looks like they have the two separate,, one for quitting smoking and one for problems relating to e-cig use.. so at first i didn't see that they had also mixed the two like they did.

 

[kristin]

John, I'm pretty sure your signature block doesn't help any, either. It pretty much makes every one of your posts an e-cig post?

Does anyone know who Edmv30 is over there? Is he here? I wish he'd back off because it's just not accomplishing anything nor helping. I was tempted to post my line about "banging your head on the wall just getting blood on the carpet" to him on Evelyn's "Sooo..." thread. *sigh*

 

[John Phoenix]

New Policy regarding electronic cigarettes

Unread postby qsmbadmin » Fri Jun 10, 2011 12:56 am

I have been giving this considerable thought, time and energy for the last several days.

This is a quit smoking site. That point is clear. What is muddy as a result of "welcoming" e-cig users is the question of nicotine use.

Does this site support nicotine use for an extended or an indefinite time? Is nicotine harmful, harmless, or does it even matter? Does this site have a position?

I've been trying to let the issue resolve itself through further discussion between the old and the new members, but obviously that was a naive notion on my part.

In a previous post I wrote:

From what I have seen posted over the last several days, many of the veterans consider e-cigs to be a slippery slope that may allow a smoker to remain addicted to nicotine, and not ever completely overcome their addiction. The e-cig supporters contend that intake of nicotine is less harmful than smoke, and that when someone has switched from using cigarettes to using e-cigs, that person has successfully quit smoking.

Who is right? I don't think it matters.

Here's what I care about: Are people being helped to quit smoking by using this site?



Unfortunately, all the threads that have become nothing but an angry debate are interfering with helping people to quit smoking. It saddens me to think how many people have come here, only to be turned off and turned away by the endless arguing.

This site MUST have a focus and a purpose. Without a clear focus, everyone misses the target. We need clarity here. We also need civility here.

So the official position of this message board is as follows:

Electronic cigarette users are welcome here with the understanding that the ultimate goal for those users is the eventual and complete cessation of nicotine use. (This can be applied equally to all forms of nicotine replacement therapy.) Topic threads related to electronic cigarettes must be posted in the Electronic Cigarettes forum. Electronic cigarette threads will be moved there if they are started elsewhere, or if the predominate content of a thread is about electronic cigarettes. Topic threads related to nicotine cessation which are obviously furthering this debate will be moved to the Electronic Cigarettes forum. Rancorous arguments will be locked or removed.

This message board is not the place to advocate electronic cigarettes as a way of life.

This policy does NOT give members the right to lambast, condescend, ridicule or otherwise denigrate electronic cigarette users or anyone else who is continuing to use nicotine in any form.

Further, I wish to make it clear that rude, inflammatory behavior by anyone, no matter how long you have been here, will be met with warnings and/or removal from the board.

Why is the policy being implemented?

Because this position gives clarity of purpose and a common goal to which each person here, at QuitSmokingMessageBoard.com, can strive. Therefore, debating about whether nicotine is harmful or not becomes a moot point. That debate can be undertaken elsewhere. This policy isn't about squelching "free thinking" and discussion. It's not about denying the e-cig users a place to share their experience. Again, this position is about clarity and a common goal for THIS site and its members, and this should help eliminate the harmful, distracting, never-ending debate. (Aren't you guys tired yet? I know I am.)

Understand that there are plenty of other forums where recreational users of electronic cigarettes gather to discuss their hobby, not for the express purpose of quitting smoking and cessation of nicotine use, but to discuss all things electronic cigarettes. There's a call for that and a place for that. It's just not here.

Now, for the e-cig users who are here and happily puffing away: You are welcome here. Here's something I don't want the other members of this forum to ignore or forget: You guys DID quit SMOKING with an electronic cigarette. Congratulations. Sincerely. I encourage you to take the next step of ridding your life of nicotine. If that's not your goal, please understand most of the members here have made freedom from nicotine their ultimate goal. Trying to fight that on THIS message board is like swimming upstream. The arguments, fights and debates haven't worked so far, have they?

I hope you will remain here and share with smokers just what your experiences have been and how the electronic cigarettes helped you to quit smoking. And I hope you will engage constructively with other members who have completely beaten their nicotine addiction so that you can do the same when and if you are ready.

Is a nicotine Nazi going to yell "No message board for you!" if you continue to inhale nicotine? No. We haven't sent cotinine biometric login devices to every member yet. Just please respect this new policy, as it has become necessary as a result of the recent "disharmony."

Finally, to every member here: Thank you for being here. It's time to get back to the purpose of this site. Emotions are running hot on both sides of this issue but this can be a peaceful process if everyone will take a step back and respect one another.

Thank you.
Fred Kelley
QuitSmoking.com - The Quit Smoking Company Home Page Stop Smoking

User avatar
qsmbadmin
Site Admin

Posts: 179
Joined: Sat May 06, 2006 3:10 pm

QuitSmokingMessageBoard.com • View topic - New Policy regarding electronic cigarettes


Edit: This is also posted in the Cold Turkey forum.

 

[John Phoenix]

John, I'm pretty sure your signature block doesn't help any, either. It pretty much makes every one of your posts an e-cig post?

This may be true and it is intended. I see other members post such things in their signatures for their chosen methods. That's what signatures are for, to say something that's personal to you or close to your heart. I didn't think putting that in a cig file was crossing the line for those reasons.

 

[LibertariaNate]

I know this is unlikely to be a popular opinion, but in the last few days it has been made extremely clear that our views on smoking cessation and nicotine are unwelcome on that forum. May I humbly suggest we cut our losses there and focus on other avenues for helping others? The subforums there are clearly visible when entering the forum. Maybe that is enough to pique someone's interest or at the very least they may see it as another alternative they can research? Truth is, this forum gets FAR more traffic then the other site and is ranked highly on Google. Anybody with an interest in an eCig would be hard pressed NOT to find this place.

The constant back-and-forth is getting tiresome. To an outsider both parties look to be the fool. I can't help but feel that more damage has been done to "our cause" than good due to the entire fiasco. Honestly, if I hadn't joined when I did and happened upon both forums and witnessed the bickering, I'd probably still be smoking because I wouldn't look for support from either site. Good information has been posted on both sides about their method of choice, but I wouldn't have gotten that far. I would have just hit the "Back" button and continued on my search or just said, "To hell with this this!" and gone outside for a smoke. Neither side stands blameless in this. Fred tried, we tried, they tried, but it just isn't working.

 

[ShannonA]

New Policy regarding electronic cigarettes

Unread postby qsmbadmin » Fri Jun 10, 2011 12:56 am
I have been giving this considerable thought, time and energy for the last several days.

This is a quit smoking site. That point is clear. What is muddy as a result of "welcoming" e-cig users is the question of nicotine use.

Does this site support nicotine use for an extended or an indefinite time? Is nicotine harmful, harmless, or does it even matter? Does this site have a position?

I've been trying to let the issue resolve itself through further discussion between the old and the new members, but obviously that was a naive notion on my part.

In a previous post I wrote:

From what I have seen posted over the last several days, many of the veterans consider e-cigs to be a slippery slope that may allow a smoker to remain addicted to nicotine, and not ever completely overcome their addiction. The e-cig supporters contend that intake of nicotine is less harmful than smoke, and that when someone has switched from using cigarettes to using e-cigs, that person has successfully quit smoking.

Who is right? I don't think it matters.

Here's what I care about: Are people being helped to quit smoking by using this site?



Unfortunately, all the threads that have become nothing but an angry debate are interfering with helping people to quit smoking. It saddens me to think how many people have come here, only to be turned off and turned away by the endless arguing.

This site MUST have a focus and a purpose. Without a clear focus, everyone misses the target. We need clarity here. We also need civility here.

So the official position of this message board is as follows:

Electronic cigarette users are welcome here with the understanding that the ultimate goal for those users is the eventual and complete cessation of nicotine use. (This can be applied equally to all forms of nicotine replacement therapy.) Topic threads related to electronic cigarettes must be posted in the Electronic Cigarettes forum. Electronic cigarette threads will be moved there if they are started elsewhere, or if the predominate content of a thread is about electronic cigarettes. Topic threads related to nicotine cessation which are obviously furthering this debate will be moved to the Electronic Cigarettes forum. Rancorous arguments will be locked or removed.

This message board is not the place to advocate electronic cigarettes as a way of life.

This policy does NOT give members the right to lambast, condescend, ridicule or otherwise denigrate electronic cigarette users or anyone else who is continuing to use nicotine in any form.

Further, I wish to make it clear that rude, inflammatory behavior by anyone, no matter how long you have been here, will be met with warnings and/or removal from the board.

Why is the policy being implemented?

Because this position gives clarity of purpose and a common goal to which each person here, at QuitSmokingMessageBoard.com, can strive. Therefore, debating about whether nicotine is harmful or not becomes a moot point. That debate can be undertaken elsewhere. This policy isn't about squelching "free thinking" and discussion. It's not about denying the e-cig users a place to share their experience. Again, this position is about clarity and a common goal for THIS site and its members, and this should help eliminate the harmful, distracting, never-ending debate. (Aren't you guys tired yet? I know I am.)

Understand that there are plenty of other forums where recreational users of electronic cigarettes gather to discuss their hobby, not for the express purpose of quitting smoking and cessation of nicotine use, but to discuss all things electronic cigarettes. There's a call for that and a place for that. It's just not here.

Now, for the e-cig users who are here and happily puffing away: You are welcome here. Here's something I don't want the other members of this forum to ignore or forget: You guys DID quit SMOKING with an electronic cigarette. Congratulations. Sincerely. I encourage you to take the next step of ridding your life of nicotine. If that's not your goal, please understand most of the members here have made freedom from nicotine their ultimate goal. Trying to fight that on THIS message board is like swimming upstream. The arguments, fights and debates haven't worked so far, have they?

I hope you will remain here and share with smokers just what your experiences have been and how the electronic cigarettes helped you to quit smoking. And I hope you will engage constructively with other members who have completely beaten their nicotine addiction so that you can do the same when and if you are ready.

Is a nicotine Nazi going to yell "No message board for you!" if you continue to inhale nicotine? No. We haven't sent cotinine biometric login devices to every member yet. Just please respect this new policy, as it has become necessary as a result of the recent "disharmony."

Finally, to every member here: Thank you for being here. It's time to get back to the purpose of this site. Emotions are running hot on both sides of this issue but this can be a peaceful process if everyone will take a step back and respect one another.

Thank you.
Fred Kelley
QuitSmoking.com - The Quit Smoking Company Home Page Stop Smoking

User avatar
qsmbadmin
Site Admin

Posts: 179
Joined: Sat May 06, 2006 3:10 pm

QuitSmokingMessageBoard.com • View topic - New Policy regarding electronic cigarettes

So basically we need to back off the pro nicotine argument.. I'm not suprised but my Q is doesn this mean they'll stop rubbing the nicodemon in our faces or is that still allowed... *sigh*. I don't mind them saying its bad... its the sayig its the most horrible thing evar...or implying it that bothers me.

 

[kristin]

"Electronic cigarette users are welcome here with the understanding that the ultimate goal for those users is the eventual and complete cessation of nicotine use."

"I hope you will remain here and share with smokers just what your experiences have been and how the electronic cigarettes helped you to quit smoking."

Unfortunately, these two statements directly contradict each other in my case.

Electronic cigarettes helped me quit smoking and "Keep the Quit" because nicotine cessation ISN'T my ultimate goal.

Or does he mean that we need to be understanding that the OTHER members' ultimate goal is nicotine cessation and it doesn't have to be that OUR ultimate goal is nicotine cessation? I'm still fuzzy on this!

 

[MagnusEunson]

This may be true and it is intended. I see other members post such things in their signatures for their chosen methods. That's what signatures are for, to say something that's personal to you or close to your heart. I didn't think putting that in a cig file was crossing the line for those reasons.

If your signature delivered the same message and had the words Democrat or Republican in it, it's be a sure troll signature. On their board that's a sure troll signature. Reading the message Fred sent out, it's pretty clear he is exhausted with this mess. And anything that triggers emotions in another person are going to send him over edge. And chances are he is more immune to words like 'nicodemon' than he is to seeing e-cig signatures.

You've won the battle. You get to stay. You're not relegated to the dark corner of the Internet. Now put on the best pomp and circumstance and stick around will ya'? -Magnus

 

[ShannonA]

I know this is unlikely to be a popular opinion, but in the last few days it has been made extremely clear that our views on smoking cessation and nicotine are unwelcome on that forum. May I humbly suggest we cut our losses there and focus on other avenues for helping others? The subforums there are clearly visible when entering the forum. Maybe that is enough to pique someone's interest or at the very least they may see it as another alternative they can research? Truth is, this forum gets FAR more traffic then the other site and is ranked highly on Google. Anybody with an interest in an eCig would be hard pressed NOT to find this place.

The constant back-and-forth is getting tiresome. To an outsider both parties look to be the fool. I can't help but feel that more damage has been done to "our cause" than good due to the entire fiasco. Honestly, if I hadn't joined when I did and happened upon both forums and witnessed the bickering, I'd probably still be smoking because I wouldn't look for support from either site. Good information has been posted on both sides about their method of choice, but I wouldn't have gotten that far. I would have just hit the "Back" button and continued on my search or just said, "To hell with this this!" and gone outside for a smoke. Neither side stands blameless in this. Fred tried, we tried, they tried, but it just isn't working.

Its ironic you say that right when I get my 1st pm ever from my new friend lol... I of course won't share her personal words but I will say she is thanking us for supporting the cause of harm reduction.

Now how do I ignore that??? hmmm???

 

[ShannonA]

"Electronic cigarette users are welcome here with the understanding that the ultimate goal for those users is the eventual and complete cessation of nicotine use."

"I hope you will remain here and share with smokers just what your experiences have been and how the electronic cigarettes helped you to quit smoking."

Unfortunately, these two statements directly contradict each other in my case.

Electronic cigarettes helped me quit smoking and "Keep the Quit" because nicotine cessation ISN'T my ultimate goal.

Or does he mean that we need to be understanding that the OTHER members' ultimate goal is nicotine cessation and it doesn't have to be that OUR ultimate goal is nicotine cessation? I'm still fuzzy on this!

My take on it is don't push the pro nicotine angel don't push the e-cig method... but mainly enough nicotine arguments which is my sentiment also I'm sick of them...lol I hate the word nnow I'm so tired of them.

 

[nitejanitor]

Well that big Fred letter was interesting-he probably hoped that by some miracle of God (sorry) that the so called core group would either give up after a wk or better still just fade away so instead its a daily back & forth with never side giving an inch but we all tune in & some like me when provoked will reply when poked but at least after the first wk I tried to back off & let you all speak your piece & even said I was sorry to John which helped but just any new kid on the block I had to prove myself-hopefully those who are just so deadset against you will stay out of your area & vice vs-it would be nice seeing some new faces even if we aren't on the same page-time will tell.

 

[MagnusEunson]

So basically we need to back off the pro nicotine argument.. I'm not suprised but my Q is doesn this mean they'll stop rubbing the nicodemon in our faces or is that still allowed... *sigh*. I don't mind them saying its bad... its the sayig its the most horrible thing evar...or implying it that bothers me.

Nicodemon isn't a personal attack to them and I doubt Fred would see it that way. I think his message is pretty clear, he isn't picking a side but he kinda is.. it really is clear in that regard, he wants the bickering to stop and e-cigs are a minority topic. So you can stay but stay in the minority.

"Electronic cigarette users are welcome here with the understanding that the ultimate goal for those users is the eventual and complete cessation of nicotine use."

"I hope you will remain here and share with smokers just what your experiences have been and how the electronic cigarettes helped you to quit smoking."

Unfortunately, these two statements directly contradict each other in my case.

Electronic cigarettes helped me quit smoking and "Keep the Quit" because nicotine cessation ISN'T my ultimate goal.

Or does he mean that we need to be understanding that the OTHER members' ultimate goal is nicotine cessation and it doesn't have to be that OUR ultimate goal is nicotine cessation? I'm still fuzzy on this!

The former, it has to be.. otherwise he wouldn't have had the paragraph pretty blatantly saying 'You have ECF, keep the nicotine discussion over at ECF please'.....

-Magnus

 

[kristin]

"Topic threads related to nicotine cessation which are obviously furthering this debate will be moved to the Electronic Cigarettes forum.

This policy does NOT give members the right to lambast, condescend, ridicule or otherwise denigrate electronic cigarette users or anyone else who is continuing to use nicotine in any form.

...for the e-cig users who are here and happily puffing away: You are welcome here...If that's not your goal, please understand most of the members here have made freedom from nicotine their ultimate goal."


OK, reading it again it basically says all e-cig discussions or continued nicotine use as smoking cessation must be done in the e-cig area. But it also means they cannot come into that area and argue with us about it.

 

[ShannonA]

I have to go back and reread it before I can reply I'm too scattered right now to give her the reply she deserves.

 

[kristin]

Who is that again, Shannon? I know you said but I can't find the post now...

I have to go back and reread it before I can reply I'm too scattered right now to give her the reply she deserves.

 

[ShannonA]

Well I'm not sure how well that will work either then Magnus because they constantly imply that e-cigs mean you must keep using nicotine...and then nicotine is evil

 

[ShannonA]

Who is that again, Shannon? I know you said but I can't find the post now...

Its not a post lol Pm'd me thanking me for what we've been doing over there.
As you might imagine I am flattered

 

[LibertariaNate]

I posted that before I saw Fred's new guidelines. I don't have a problem with sticking around over there if Fred's new guidelines are followed by BOTH sides.

"Nicotine is evil"
"No it's not"
"Yes it is"
"No it's not"
"Yes it is"
"You're an uneducated ....."
"You're an arseh0le"

Many threads over there were turning into the above. Nothing was being achieved. Everyone had egg on their face and just looked silly. I've stuck around because I like you guys. Honestly though, I've enjoyed our OT discussions FAR more than the QSMB venting.

Plus Magnus' occasional comments are a riot, but I didn't want it to appear as though I was stalking him...

 

[MagnusEunson]

I've read it twice now.. that just seems like a polite way of saying that we want to remain nicotine free if at all possible and all discussion that doesn't point toward nicotine free needs to be at another board. All roads, when you're readying, should lead to nicotine free. Very typical twelve-step pamphlet language actually.

This whole dynamic is bizarre to me. You can obfuscate position statements much better than what Fred just did. -Magnus

 

[ShannonA]

You know I wonder if lol would consent to me sharing her 1st ECF post over there... that could really get across the whole point behind harm reduction..in the e-cig section of course...