E-cigarettes popularity in N.B. sparks debate

[Ms. Creant]

If they make nic juice illicit, we can counter with telling them that we will start vaping hand sanitizer and then they'll have to give us vaping lounges and free juice to vape...

‘Illicit Drinkers’ seek free alcohol lounge in Vancouver’s Downtown Eastside

 

[ChellyNelly]

Interesting! If it follows the same form of the Supervised Injection Site then I think that's a fantastic idea because it helps people stay safe doing what they're going to do anyways, reduces harm to others, and the most important thing is that it exposes them to recovery services. There is no such thing as recovery in the streets.

But anywhom

 

[kanadiankat]

Too much unknown.

Which is true. Burden of proof that e-cigs are safe lies in the hands of people engaged in this business. Not Health Canada. Much like in the pharmaceutical business. In short, present scientific evidence that they're safe, then and only then will we see HC act upon it.

HC will not accept any scientific evidence unless it is produced by a pharmaceutical company. And, yes, this IS politically motivated.

A couple years back the University of Alberta Public Health Department ran a study on electronic cigarettes under the supervision of Dr Carl Phillips. His results were very positive and he has since become an outspoken advocate for ecigs and other harm reduction techniques for smokers. (Dr. Philips is not a smoker).

Other scientific studies have been carried out right around the world (US, UK, Australia, New Zealand - to name a few). EVERY study shows ecigs as safe.

Eliquid is composed of PG and/or VG, flavoring (free from diacytle, oil and sugar).

PG has been studied since 1940 and declared safe for inhaling. It's one of the most widely used ingredients in medicine, food, air systems and fog machines. Fewer studies have been done on VG - but nothing of note has been seen yet to indicate that inhaling VG vapors is damaging.

HOWEVER - the whole point of ecigs is that they are SAFER than cigarettes. Even if they were a little bit safer - that might be something. That they are a whole lot safer - that's something else.

Quote from the article "So if you're trying to get rid of an unhealthy, dangerous, habit, why would you inhale something that you really don't know for sure, that it is safe?" - completely misses the point.

I would counter: "Why deny people addicted to a deadly product, that is legal and available everywhere a replacement product that is shown to be far safer and not deadly. It's like telling a recovering alcoholic that he can't have juice or coffee cause it might harm his health as no pharmaceutical company has scientifically proven otherwise."

 

[VIPOD]

I'm certain most of you have read this article by Dr Elizabeth Whelan from the American Council on Science and Health. If you haven't, well worth the read.

FDA smoke screen on e-cigarettes - Washington Times

btw, this was one of the reasons I decided to switch back in '09.

 

[OntariAuLait]

HC has been mandated to watch over what drugs Canadians are taking. It is in their own best interest to help and even test these things. We've seen in the last few years where HC has taken a phara companies word for it, just to find out later is all bunk.

I agree with everything else you said, but this can't even be an argument. They aren't at all trying to right past wrongs, and they're selectively applying their caring and watchful eye to whatever they want to.

Champix is literally killing people and their help and tests are still absent and ignored in that department. Other things (aspertame?! used by millions more than e-cigs) are dangerous as hell...shouldn't they be spending time helping and testing those too?

The excuse "we're concerned about you and we just want to make sure it's safe" is ridiculously patronizing. It flies in one ear and out the other with me. They obviously don't need to cover their own ..., they get away with ridiculous stuff all the time, no problem!

AND (sorry to continue ranting) if they want to help so bad, then they should just test it and get it over with.

Does anyone have clout in some sort of university research department? Will they take that, or does someone literally need to pay HC to do it?

 

[OntariAuLait]

Damn. I'm disappointed that HC wouldn't even let CBC interview them. We need a Barbara Walters up here, right now! I have pressing questions I want answered!

 

[TrueNorthist]

I'm a bit too new to have a fully cogent opinion on all this, but I will say this; I was unable to quit with anything other than e-cigs. I am now an ex smoker. That would not have happened had I not stumbled onto this site. (I saw DevilFishPhil's avatar while doing a search on an unrelated subject and had to check it out)

Regardless, I am increasingly of the opinion that it would likely be best to roll along as we are right now -- at least for our own abillity to continue vaping unmolested. I can say with some competence that were govt to get involved at this point we would quickly find that things just got a whole lot worse. I believe we are quite likely enjoying the high point in e-cigg use where we can vape to our hearts content with little or no interference. It would, however, only take one really bad supplier who winds up making hundreds ill, or worse, and the whole works will come crashing down. Perhaps some form of self regulating is in order?

 

[Chime]

Prohibition of course has been proven to be a solid governance policy judging by the past.

 

[Urban Nightmare]

I was on the vaportalk forum and saw a thread about how one supplier let slip some very badly nic mixed juice. Some of the juice was up to 200mg/ml. That stuff will make you very sick if you licked your fingers after getting a few drops on them. That's what's going to really make governments perk up and do something.

Probably the best thing we can do for now is just hide in the shadows. Make sure our suppliers are good and know what they are doing. We can only hope that some one/company can some day say they are safer then cigs. The biggest problem HC has is the nic content. They don't know how to regulate it and until this figure that out we're going to have a advisory to not use them.

That and money. Lots and lots of money.

 

[kanadiankat]

I was on the vaportalk forum and saw a thread about how one supplier let slip some very badly nic mixed juice. Some of the juice was up to 200mg/ml. That stuff will make you very sick if you licked your fingers after getting a few drops on them. That's what's going to really make governments perk up and do something.

Probably the best thing we can do for now is just hide in the shadows. Make sure our suppliers are good and know what they are doing. We can only hope that some one/company can some day say they are safer then cigs. The biggest problem HC has is the nic content. They don't know how to regulate it and until this figure that out we're going to have a advisory to not use them.

That and money. Lots and lots of money.

The part about wrongly labelled liquid actually came out in this forum (a member did the analysis). It wasn't eliquid though - it was nicotine base from a chemical supply company.

Eliquid has been tested so many times it's dizzying to even note. The FDA also tested several different liquids during their trial in the US. They were specifically looking for something bad. Nothing was found.

As for getting "someone trustworthy with all the creds" to say it's safe - well - that's happened already numerous times. In Canada at the University of Alberta Public Health department.

HC isn't listening. FDA isn't listening.

And I seriously doubt that the inability to regulate nicotine has anything to do with it.

Nicotine can be regulated in eliquid faster, more efficiently and better than any tobacco product on the market.

The World Health Organization (WHO) came out against ecigs first. Since then, every member nation has done everything - regardless of whether it's ethical or even legal - to keep ecigs out of their respective markets.

It's a political battle.

 

[Concat]

I'm assuming you're talking about the Box Elder fiasco (?)

 

[Urban Nightmare]

I stand corrected on the liquid. Sorry about that I must not have read far enough. Agreed that eliquid has been tested over and over. They do seem to want to find something about it that is bad so they have a reason.

"Regulate" was the wrong word. It should have been "control" and/or "tax".

Bottom line is like you say, it's a political battle.

 

[Ms. Creant]

I think HC, with all this jousting and .......ing about, is just biding/buying time until they can figure out all the who's, what's, where's, when's and why's so that they can implent some sort of control and regulation and most importantly TAX. I believe it's only a matter of time, the hardware is already on the shelves they just need to study how they will implement the nic supply/delivery system and how it is made available in a way that they can make maximum dollars from it.

Saw a comment that prohibition works... What; since when? Anybody that wants to smoke mj can smoke mj. Judging by the addiction problems in society, most anything illicit anybody wants to do can be done apparently fairly readily.

 

[Concat]

I'm almost more terrified of the regulations than the taxes. Can you imagine a max nic concentration of 8 mg/mL? No "kid" flavors (because we all know adults don't enjoy cherries and chocolate, that's kid stuff)?

 

[JQside]

The World Health Organization (WHO) came out against ecigs first. Since then, every member nation has done everything - regardless of whether it's ethical or even legal - to keep ecigs out of their respective markets.

If it's global, then why are we even blaming HC? Not to mention the fact that countries have varying sets of political, social, cultural and economic issues. Why do you think e-cigs are also not completely legal in those countries? Do they have the same influence peddlers like we have here? In most countries, for example, a pack of cigarette costs about five times less than they are here. They're as accessible as chewing gums. Regulation is almost non-existent.

Could it be that there hasn't been any real concerted effort by the main players in the business to push e-cigs into the mainstream? Could it be that they'd rather keep it that way, ie, throw pieces of assurances of safety here and there enough to keep the government at bay and from further sniffing?

 

[Urban Nightmare]

I think I'm going to have to ignore this thread for now. Not that I don't like a lively discussion. Just between quitting smokes and having other problems with government agencies I'm not happy with things right now.

Maybe I should change my handle to "Cranky Vapor"

No TV and no beer makes Homer something something...

 

[TrueNorthist]

I'm with Urban Nightmare on this one. It is a difficult topic for someone that has just seen the light. Wondering if things will fall apart is already an endless chore in life these days, and having to deal with such subjects in this place is aversive, and that defeats the purpose entirely. I am happy to leave this issue to those that have much more time, and moreover experience, before even thinking about these matters again. I am just too fragile at this point I suppose... I do take solace in the fact that there are some excellent advocates for the vapour already dealing with these matters, and hope one day to be sturdy enough to help shoulder that burden. Until then I will simply say sorry for butting in here. It is a subject that lurks just beneath the surface with me and can easily draw my full attention.