E Juice not a tobacco product????

[stevegmu]

My point is, if nicotine was extracted from other sources, would it be subject to regulation as well?
Nicotine, just like caffeine, is a naturally occurring substance. If the nic was extracted from eggplant or tomatoes, would it demand such attention as if it were extracted from tobacco? Yes it would.

The arguement is invalid.

It currently isn't. If it were, it wouldn't fall under the control of the tobacco Control Act. As it is, the only source for nicotine in e-liquid available today is tobacco, which makes it a tobacco product.

 

[Coastal Cowboy]

It currently isn't. If it were, it wouldn't fall under the control of the Tobacco Control Act. As it is, the only source for nicotine in e-liquid available today is tobacco, which makes it a tobacco product.

This is correct. Currently, I believe the only US company manufacturing liquid nicotine is Dow Chemical. They extract the nicotine from tobacco.

Attempts have been made at synthesizing the substance using other means but as of yet, the only economically feasible method is extraction from tobacco. Even that is a relatively inefficient process. It's an ionization process that produces very little nicotine per pound of plant material used.

There is a thread here in the DIY forum that explains how to extract nicotine from tobacco leaves/stems. I think Thrasher(?) chimed in that even in the best of conditions, extracting tobacco is a time consuming and expensive process, and that it takes a lot of material to get it done.

Using the other nightshade plants makes the ratio even worse.

 

[JayTater]

So, just for Gits and Shiggles.

If I were to extract nicotine from fruits and vegetables, then sell gallon jugs of nicotine to folks without age verification, would I be in the clear? NO

Nicotine is nicotine, regardless of where its derived.

 

[stevegmu]

So, just for Gits and Shiggles.

If I were to extract nicotine from fruits and vegetables, then sell gallon jugs of nicotine to folks without age verification, would I be in the clear? NO

Nicotine is nicotine, regardless of where its derived.

You could be charged with child endangerment if sold to a minor, or fined for making and selling an ingestible in an unlicensed 'retail kitchen' which hasn't been inspected by the local board of health.

 

[mvroman]

Given all the nicotine used in e-juice is derived from tobacco, or course it is a tobacco product. Is e-nic legally defined as a tobacco product? Not yet. Maybe never.

A correct analogy would be to ask whether gasoline is an oil product. It is.

With that argument, it makes more sense to make the statement that it is a BYPRODUCT of tobacco processing. Seeing as how exhaust fumes arent considered fuel products, how can they consider ejuice to be a tobacco product?

If there are other ways to extract nicotine from something other than tobacco it needs to be researched. If they can make synthetic teahsee and make Spice, why cant they make synthetic nicotine?

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[stevegmu]

With that argument, it makes more sense to make the statement that it is a BYPRODUCT of tobacco processing. Seeing as how exhaust fumes arent considered fuel products, how can they consider ejuice to be a tobacco product?

If there are other ways to extract nicotine from something other than tobacco it needs to be researched. If they can make synthetic teahsee and make Spice, why cant they make synthetic nicotine?

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Really?

A by-product is a secondary product derived from a manufacturing process or chemical reaction. It is not the primary product or service being produced.

What type of tobacco processing are you referring to? Last I checked, nicotine isn't extracted out of tobacco during the process of manufacturing cigarettes.


It can be, but not at a price anyone would pay.

 

[djsvapour]

Can I say I don't care where it comes from, but if it coming from tobacco makes it a tobacco product therefore it can be regulated to extinction by the European Union, then that sucks.

I like the coffee and coke argument.

My opinion is that if nicotine liquid has to be regulated, it needs to have it's own regulations that acknowledge the fact nicotine delivery away from combustion of tobacco leaves is far safer.

 

[Uncle Willie]

My opinion is that WHEN nicotine liquid IS regulated,

fixed that for ya ..

 

[Evi|grin]

Eggplant has even more nicotine than tomatoes.
http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJM199308053290619
Vegetable Nicotine in ng/g g per 1µg nicotine
Cauliflower 16.8 59.5
Eggplant (Aubergine) 100.0 10
Potatoes 7.1 140
Green tomatoes 42.8 23.4
Ripe tomatoes 4.3 233.0
Pureed tomatoes 52.0 19.2

 

[Uncle Willie]

If they can make synthetic teahsee and make Spice, why cant they make synthetic nicotine?

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They can .. but I don't think anyone would want to shell out what synth nic would cost ..

 

[BigBen2k]

The point here is nicotine used in e-liquid comes from tobacco .. not anything else ..

Whether it's practical or not, isn't the point; *If* nicotine *can* be extracted from other sources than tobacco, it shouldn't be referred strictly as a Tobacco product.

Current jurisprudence has it flagged as such, because there were only two options in the case (tobacco or medical). It remains to be seen if our e-juices could (and IMO should) be classified as something else.

 

[dr g]

Has there been any case law on whether nicotine extracted from other plants can escape FDA regulation?

 

[BigBen2k]

Has there been any case law on whether nicotine extracted from other plants can escape FDA regulation?

Not that I know.

Nicotine alone is *similar* to caffeine (health and addiction); as far as I know, the FDA never regulated caffeine.

 

[dr g]

Not that I know.

Nicotine alone is *similar* to caffeine (health and addiction); as far as I know, the FDA never regulated caffeine.

There needs to be a test case.

 

[ut1205]

As long as it is a tobacco product, which it is, you are screwed for life and health insurance. The application asks if you use "Tobacco Products". If you answer yes then you are rated the same as the smokers, dippers, and chewers. Seems like we could get some credit for not smoking them.

 

[soba1]

Think of it this way. Would we call Pepsi a coffee product ?

I love logic, then if no then Nicorette gum?

 

[stevegmu]

As long as it is a tobacco product, which it is, you are screwed for life and health insurance. The application asks if you use "Tobacco Products". If you answer yes then you are rated the same as the smokers, dippers, and chewers. Seems like we could get some credit for not smoking them.

Depends on how the questions are worded and whether or not they test for nicotine. Mine says tobacco user. I don't use tobacco, although I use a tobacco product, so I can honestly answer no.

 

[zoiDman]

Has there been any case law on whether nicotine extracted from other plants can escape FDA regulation?

I just don't see a Win that is Possible.

If it comes from Tobacco, then it is going to go down the Current Road that is Now. If it comes from taking 700 lbs of Eggplant or Creating 30mg of Nicotine Synthetically, then it would be Considered to be a Drug.

What saved us from the Lesser of the Two Evils was that Nicotine, in the Fashion that we use it, was considered Recreational Tobacco Use.

 

[SuperLuckyLady]

Being a product containing one of it's parts "derived from" is different than being the product itself.

To put it another way, just because I put butter on my baked potato does not make it a beef product.

Not really. Butter is made from milk, and it is a milk product.

 

[SuperLuckyLady]

I wonder on this to. Is our nic a product of tobacco? Is not caffeine a product of coffee beans?

It really doesn't matter what we call caffeine as we don't regulate coffee products. And, of course, we do regulate tobacco products.