E-petitions don't work, do not rely on them!

[MoonMan]

moonman - the point trying to be made here is that every little bit helps! so lets all just abandon the petition because it won't work then! i do not think so!

I simply do not agree that they help from a policy-changing standpoint. I think they they give people a sense of satisfaction that may keep from doing something that actually would make a difference.

If the people that bother to take the time writing up an online petition would instead take that time and organize a letter writing campaign, it would be far more beneficial. ONE written letter carries more weight than 1000 e-signatures.

 

[LaceyUnderall]

I simply do not agree that they help from a policy-changing standpoint. I think they they give people a sense of satisfaction that may keep from doing something that actually would make a difference.

If the people that bother to take the time writing up an online petition would instead take that time and organize a letter writing campaign, it would be far more beneficial. ONE written letter carries more weight than 1000 e-signatures.

while I still feel the way I a do about the petition, I can definitely see where you are coming from and understand this concern. It is a legitimate concern.

Some people may think they have done their part and that is that. But... they may not have done anything anyways...

stevejo is right though... we should focus on other things than what is out there already being done... and start some new

Done your 10 sec video yet???? http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...es/14635-how-has-ecig-impacted-your-life.html Igetcha is all excited to get this thing rolling for us all!

 

[Oliver]

Any thoughts on what I should link to from the front page for guests to look at wrt campaining?

 

[Oliver]

oooh - maybe igetcha's fantastic 10 second videos.....

 

[LaceyUnderall]

dusty's ecig documentary as well. i think that is another valiant effort.

 

[Bill Godshall]

I strongly disagree that the e-cigarette petition won't help our efforts. While the FDA's drug enforcement office may not pay it any attention, and while it probably won't be offered as evidence in Smoking Everywhere's lawsuit, the FDA's policy office almost certainly is reviewing it.

It is very likely that the FDA's policy office ordered its drug enforcement office to postpone its anti e-cigarette campaign event on Tuesday.

Also, health and anti tobacco organizations (including those who urged FDA to ban e-cigarettes), smoking cessation researchers and service providers, along with Congressional staff members are likely reviewing the petition (as I've sent if far and wide weekly for the past month).

 

[MoonMan]

I strongly disagree that the e-cigarette petition won't help our efforts. While the FDA's drug enforcement office may not pay it any attention, and while it probably won't be offered as evidence in Smoking Everywhere's lawsuit, the FDA's policy office almost certainly is reviewing it.

It is very likely that the FDA's policy office ordered its drug enforcement office to postpone its anti e-cigarette campaign event on Tuesday.

Also, health and anti tobacco organizations (including those who urged FDA to ban e-cigarettes), smoking cessation researchers and service providers, along with Congressional staff members are likely reviewing the petition (as I've sent if far and wide weekly for the past month).

You can HOPE they read it and take heed, but that doesn't mean they have to or will give it any merit or consequence. In the past there has been no proof of an e-petition ever making a difference.

If it did this time, it would make history.

 

[TropicalBob]

Let's try to make history!

 

[Rookie]

You can HOPE they read it and take heed, but that doesn't mean they have to or will give it any merit or consequence. In the past there has been no proof of an e-petition ever making a difference.

If it did this time, it would make history.

It never ceases to amaze me how much time we waste picking each other apart here. MoonMan if you don't think the petition will do any good, don't sign it. Almost everyone on this forum is looking for ANY way that we can make a difference or impact policy. Each to his own. If you have a better idea lets hear it. Offer solutions, not criticism.

 

[Krakkan]

Copied in Lets Achieve 10k post as well!

Lets see I created this petition and I think it has done more good than anything you could have imagined thus far. It has garnered attention, it has helped motivate, it has brought a community to one common goal.


Will it effect the FDA decisions? Maybe maybe not it isn't being sent as a ONLINE petition it is being printed and sent in paper form. The comments in the petition are valid and you cannot fake a signature on it unless you are coming from a totally different IP address as it will not let you sign more than once.

The FDA has in the past been influenced by petitions as well much of their organization requires a form of petition for their processes. Whatever you or anyone may think or feel just the fact that over 7k people are motivated to DO SOMETHING is better than the nothing you were doing before I created the petition.

I SAY WRITE A LETTER CALL YOUR CONGRESSMAN AND BY ALL MEANS SIGN THE ****ING PETITION. ITS BETTER TO DO ALL OF THE ABOVE THEN TO HAVE SOME DUMB MORAL STAND OR ARGUMENT ON THE WEB.

Either way my only goal was to get you off your ... and looks like it worked!

Peace,

JD

 

[MoonMan]

It never ceases to amaze me how much time we waste picking each other apart here. MoonMan if you don't think the petition will do any good, don't sign it. Almost everyone on this forum is looking for ANY way that we can make a difference or impact policy. Each to his own. If you have a better idea lets hear it. Offer solutions, not criticism.

I DID offer a better suggestion, a few times actually. You may have seen it if you had read my other posts, but I guess you were too eager to "pick me apart" to read them.



E-petitions may raise awareness and spread interest, I'm not debating that. My point is that the powers that be do not take them seriously, nor should they. They CAN be faked and have multiple signatures from the same person. To claim differently is an admittance of internet and hacking naivety.

What if an e-petition called for something terrible and was fake populated with 10,000 signatures - would you really want it to be taken seriously then? BTW, some people think e-cigs are a terrible thing. Shhhhhh.

As I said, I do agree that they can raise awareness about a particular issue, so I guess that's good for something - but that's not the implication or purpose I'm getting from a lot of the ones I have seen. I should have made this clear in the first post (I just updated it) - This thread is not against any single e-petition, but the idea of counting on them as a standalone policy-changing tool.

It seems I have been demonized for expressing my unpopular thoughts and starting a thread that we can debate about this in openly. I can't say I'm surprised by that (even though we're in a forum that is practically about free speech - oh the irony), but I can send a big ol' to the people that think badly of me for it. Free speech goes hand-in-hand with e-petitions.

 

[moose88]

I will paste LacyUnderalls post from earlier in the thread, in my opinion this should have ended this discussion already, and the thread should be closed, as valuable effort and time is being wasted...

I think this petition has already proven it's worth... and the more who can sign it the better.

Bill Godshall found us by finding that petition. SmokeFree PA found us because of that petition. tobaccofree.org found us because SmokeFree PA has Bill Godshall and Bill Godshall found that petition.

From there, that little petition is now emailed out to over 4000 people on a daily basis who fall into the anti-smoking camp and want to see tobacco harm reduction succeed and the ecig is definitely a form of tobacco harm reduction.

 

[MoonMan]

I will paste LacyUnderalls post from earlier in the thread, in my opinion this should have ended this discussion already, and the thread should be closed, as valuable effort and time is being wasted...

Time and effort being wasted? Whose, exactly? Don't post if you don't have "valuable" time or effort to spare, it's just that simple. I can tell you didn't even read my last post.

This is MY thread. I got out of yours and quit hijacking it, please return the favor and leave if you don't have anything new to add to this discussion.

 

[moose88]

well dont ask how the petition has been helpful if you dont want an answer

 

[MoonMan]

well dont ask how the petition has been helpful if you dont want an answer

I didn't ask, I was told (repeatedly). Thanks though.

Back on topic, please. I'm still waiting for some proof that an e-petition has directly changed policy on anything, which is what this thread is concerning.

 

[Bill Godshall]

MoonMan's comments are strikingly similar to the claims by e-cigarette prohibitionists who insist that there is no evidence or proof that e-cigarettes are safe or effective, that there is no proof that smokers can switch to e-cigarettes, and that there is no proof that e-cigarettes are less hazardous alternatives to cigarettes.

They're also similar to claims by right-to-smoke activists who insist there is no proof that repeatedly inhaling tobacco smoke pollution is a health hazard to smokers or secondhand smokers.

 

[MoonMan]

MoonMan's comments are strikingly similar to the claims by e-cigarette prohibitionists who insist that there is no evidence or proof that e-cigarettes are safe or effective, that there is no proof that smokers can switch to e-cigarettes, and that there is no proof that e-cigarettes are less hazardous alternatives to cigarettes.

They're also similar to claims by right-to-smoke activists who insist there is no proof that repeatedly inhaling tobacco smoke pollution is a health hazard to smokers or secondhand smokers.

There goes the demonizing again.

Good lord, I FULLY SUPPORT E-CIGS. I don't buy, use, mod and improve them because I HATE them - they are one of the best things ever invented IMO.

My claims have NOTHING to do with supporting any argument for or against e-cigs, tobacco, or anything else like that. My ONLY concern is the validity of e-petitions. Why do so few seem to understand that?

 

[Smokin'Sandy]

>snip<

My claims have NOTHING to do with supporting any argument for or against e-cigs, tobacco, or anything else like that. My ONLY concern is the validity of e-petitions. Why doesn't anyone seem to understand that?

MoonMan, I don't think anyone would disagree with you that they are not a valid petition. Even Snopes.com claims they are ineffective at remedying important issues. I think the argument comes in when someone claims they aren't important as useful tools to spread the word. I don't recall reading that from you.

If we are to argue about apples, I think the oranges should be eaten first.

 

[Ozwest]

Why all the drama?

 

[MoonMan]

Why all the drama?

Why all the e-petitions with claims of policy change?

MoonMan, I don't think anyone would disagree with you that they are not a valid petition. Even Snopes.com claims they are ineffective at remedying important issues. I think the argument comes in when someone claims they aren't important as useful tools to spread the word. I don't recall reading that from you.

If we are to argue about apples, I think the oranges should be eaten first.

Thank you, you seem to understand what I'm trying to say. I do agree that they could be useful for spreading the word. However, I have had people try to tell me that they ARE effective at remedying issues (or at least hold out hope that they are). This blind hope can be a damaging mindset that keeps people from doing something that actually works IMO.