http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo.../53135-attention-all-va-lawyers-who-vape.html
This is illegal. I do not have the resources to fight it alone. Please help us.
This is illegal. I do not have the resources to fight it alone. Please help us.
ECA virginia needs your help
- Thread starter Mac
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Wow at the lack of response. Sure am glad I'm not paying you guys $300 a month. Good luck with the PR campaign! Ace job there!
If they don't care they don't care. I am disappointed in this group. When they first announced themselves I thought "Finally we have representation!" All I see them doing is being a big fat commercial for njoy and instead. (ECA please show me I am wrong)
Whether the ECA was able to assist or not, the total lack of contact amazes me. What is the reasoning behind this lack of response? It is totally unacceptable and shows a complete disregard of even the basic concepts of common courtesy. I've very disappointed in the ECA.
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...king-ban-includes-e-cigs-per-dept-health.html
WOW!!! Almost two months ago there was discussion over this very issue and only ONE PERSON CONTACTED ME TO ASSIST!!!!!!!!!!!!
Lack of action can ONLY be laid on those who decided not to act. Sorry... but sometimes when we decide to do nothing... we get what we sow.
And for the record: Mac you were a part of that thread... why didn't you ever contact me? I thought "I think it's safe to say that the retailers will fight it for you" would have at least meant you would contact me and you didn't.
WOW!!! Almost two months ago there was discussion over this very issue and only ONE PERSON CONTACTED ME TO ASSIST!!!!!!!!!!!!
Lack of action can ONLY be laid on those who decided not to act. Sorry... but sometimes when we decide to do nothing... we get what we sow.
And for the record: Mac you were a part of that thread... why didn't you ever contact me? I thought "I think it's safe to say that the retailers will fight it for you" would have at least meant you would contact me and you didn't.
At the time I had nothing more to go on then an email sent to someone else. That isn't actionable. I asked a lawyer. She said no way this could be possible. Then a lawyer came on that thread and said the same thing.http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...king-ban-includes-e-cigs-per-dept-health.html
WOW!!! Almost two months ago there was discussion over this very issue and only ONE PERSON CONTACTED ME TO ASSIST!!!!!!!!!!!!
Lack of action can ONLY be laid on those who decided not to act. Sorry... but sometimes when we decide to do nothing... we get what we sow.
And for the record: Mac you were a part of that thread... why didn't you ever contact me? I thought "I think it's safe to say that the retailers will fight it for you" would have at least meant you would contact me and you didn't.
After the FAQ was up things changed. It is a blatant violation of the legislative process. The faq said one thing. I researched it and saw that the law said otherwise. The faq was only brought to my attention recently. I didn't contact you before because there was nothing any of us could do. Once it goes up on a .gov website as an official release then we have something to work on.
THIS is exactly why we fight an uphill battle on a daily basis.
WAY to many people sit on this forum and have this philosophy.
Instead of being proactive, they truly believe that there is nothing can be done when in fact there are many things can be done.
Act, or be acted upon.
It is a sad fact that many are going to wake up one day and voila... a ban. And it won't be until then that they get out of their recliners and start getting upset about the injustices that are being trodden upon them.
Personally, I am exhausted.
Excuse me? I really hope you aren't implying that I haven't been doing anything other then sitting on this forum the whole time. I have been writing letters, making phone calls and sending emails for almost 11 months now.
As soon as I saw something that looked official I jumped all over it. I have contacted an attorney and she promised to write in for me. Because of my efforts dozens of letteres will go out to legislative branches. You said someone contacted you 2 months ago. What have you done about it?
You don't know a damned thing about my philosophy or you wouldn't be working to get me fired. I am done communicating with you and the rest of your cowardly backstabbing group.
There are a handful of people who work relentlessly for this cause, and LaceyUnderall is one of them. Anyone who is remotely active for the cause would know that and would never be so disrespectful of her.
LaceyU, ignore this and get some rest. You deserve it.
LaceyU, ignore this and get some rest. You deserve it.
I am in complete agreement.
Lacey has been tireless in her efforts, and those who are active in the cause know this and appreciate all that she has done and continues to do.
I, too, get tired of hearing the often repeated refrain, "There's nothing we can do." Just because something isn't yet legally actionable doesn't mean that there's nothing to be done. In fact, often the best time to do something is BEFORE there is anything legally actionable to pursue. By the time it gets to the point of legal action, positions are more or less ingrained, and it becomes difficult for agencies to back-pedal and save face.
Pretend for a minute that you had spenty the last 11 months of your life fighting for a cause. That your career focused around it as well as most of your free time. Then an organization that is supposed to be on the same side as you calls for a witch hunt against you. Then when you call them on it, they deny it (EVEN though it's on an abc newswire) and basically tell you it's your fault for being too lazy to do anything. I HAVE NOT been sitting on my hands. ASK any one close to me and they will tell you that I have made our struggle priority one! I work damn near 60 or 70 hours EVERY week if you include all of my efforts to raise public awareness and contact plitical leaders, media outlets and other organizations. MY efforts have been tireless too. Perhaps I am not an industry giant like the leaders of the ECA are but that doesn't mean I don't work just as hard as them. In fact I would say the smaller guy usually
HAS to work harder. My statement has been taken repeatedly out of context. I never said we can't do anything at all. I said I couldn't do anything with an email sent to someone else. I have not been doing nothing. Lacey is well aware of this and is just trying to make me look like some kind of nut and play this down as no big deal so that everyone's focus can be taken away from the HUGE conflict of interest here. Mall kiosks are competition for Njoy and instead. By calling to have them shut down. They are not operating to a very high ethical standard.
I will explain myself no further. It doesn't matter what somebody did before they stabbed you in the back. A backstab is a backstab. I will post no further in this thread so you guys can feel free to talk all the trrash about me that you want. I have NOT been sitting on my hands i have been fighting for your rights!
As an outsider with no vested interest in this feud/argument/battle or whatever you want to call it. And therefore not trying to get into any argument about it but just stating an opinion of how it looks.
Going through your last post in reverse order
Stating you won't comment any further in a thread after a rant like that (a) makes it look like you just want to have your say and want everyone to agree with you otherwise you're going to tell them to screw off and run away and (b) isn't really saying much since you are posting numerous other threads that, while worded differently, are basically trying to get the same message across.
Speculating on other peoples/organizations motives without any proof of those motives, no matter how apparent they may seem to be, will only lead to one thing and that is to get some people to believe what you are saying is true and to get other people to assume that the motives you are projecting on others are actually your motives for doing so since they are, as you stated yourself, your competition.
As for who isn't practicing ethical standards I would think that you would put that blame where it is due which is on THE(not all) mall kiosk owners who are selling to minors when they shouldn't be. Regardless of the ECAs financial interests I would say if a large amount of bad publicity is coming from such occurrences then condemning those actions is a smart stance to take in order to try to make the fight for e-cigs in general a little easier to win. And that is if the statement was even really made. If the story "on an abc newswire" that you are referring to is the one I think it is then it has already been shown that at least some parts of that were regurgitated bits of another story which just shows lazy and dishonest "reporting" on the part of the writer of said story. That also means that other parts of it could have been untrue or misquoted.
Like I said this is just looking at it as an outsider.
Now, all of that being said, I can understand why you would be aggravated and annoyed at the thought of losing a job/business that you have spent time at, especially in this economy. However, I would think, that if your true concern is mainly your own financial well being and also trying to help keep e-cigs available to the public, that your time would be better spent if invested in continuing the "fighting" that you were for the cause in general and for your own right to keep your business. Regardless of whether you and the ECA agree on all points you are both fighting toward the same main goal and don't always have to agree on and go after every point of it in the same way. You can still fight for your own right to have the kiosks which I would think would be a goal that you would get closer to accomplishing if you spent more time working on organizing and working with other kiosk owners toward better business practices and less time trying to go after someone who, as I said, whether they agree with you or not are going to try and help keep these legal in general.
Going through your last post in reverse order
Stating you won't comment any further in a thread after a rant like that (a) makes it look like you just want to have your say and want everyone to agree with you otherwise you're going to tell them to screw off and run away and (b) isn't really saying much since you are posting numerous other threads that, while worded differently, are basically trying to get the same message across.
Speculating on other peoples/organizations motives without any proof of those motives, no matter how apparent they may seem to be, will only lead to one thing and that is to get some people to believe what you are saying is true and to get other people to assume that the motives you are projecting on others are actually your motives for doing so since they are, as you stated yourself, your competition.
As for who isn't practicing ethical standards I would think that you would put that blame where it is due which is on THE(not all) mall kiosk owners who are selling to minors when they shouldn't be. Regardless of the ECAs financial interests I would say if a large amount of bad publicity is coming from such occurrences then condemning those actions is a smart stance to take in order to try to make the fight for e-cigs in general a little easier to win. And that is if the statement was even really made. If the story "on an abc newswire" that you are referring to is the one I think it is then it has already been shown that at least some parts of that were regurgitated bits of another story which just shows lazy and dishonest "reporting" on the part of the writer of said story. That also means that other parts of it could have been untrue or misquoted.
Like I said this is just looking at it as an outsider.
Now, all of that being said, I can understand why you would be aggravated and annoyed at the thought of losing a job/business that you have spent time at, especially in this economy. However, I would think, that if your true concern is mainly your own financial well being and also trying to help keep e-cigs available to the public, that your time would be better spent if invested in continuing the "fighting" that you were for the cause in general and for your own right to keep your business. Regardless of whether you and the ECA agree on all points you are both fighting toward the same main goal and don't always have to agree on and go after every point of it in the same way. You can still fight for your own right to have the kiosks which I would think would be a goal that you would get closer to accomplishing if you spent more time working on organizing and working with other kiosk owners toward better business practices and less time trying to go after someone who, as I said, whether they agree with you or not are going to try and help keep these legal in general.
I will say that I am somewhat conflicted by the whole mall kiosk phenomenon.
On the one hand, I think it promotes a higher profile for PVs, introducing it to people who may never have seen or heard of PVs. It also gives people the opportunity to try it right there on the spot to see whether it's something they might be able to embrace.
On the other hand, the mall kiosk operations seem to be rife with problems. While I'm sure there are some good ones out there (and I have no doubt yours is one of them), there are some really unethical and uninformed people out there operating kiosks.
However one falls on the mall kiosk issue, though, I think you, Mac, are taking this way too personally. No one at ECA or in the vaping community is gunning for you or your job.
I will say this: I am simply a consumer. I have absolutely no financial stake in any of this. As a consumer, I do not believe that there is 100% unity of interest between me and ANY supplier/manufacturer. Likewise, I do not believe there is a 100% unity of interest amongst all suppliers. For example, some, like you, depend on a brick and mortar location. Others rely on the internet. You can no doubt already see that there will be potentially conflicting interests there.
But despite a complete lack of unity of interest, consumers and suppliers are ALL aligned on the big issue . . . the necessity of ensuring that PVs remain legal.
In my mind, THAT is the battle that ECA needs to focus on . . . ensuring that PVs remain legal. ECA is positioned to make a big difference on a national level and lend assistance in other critical efforts involving the legality of the PV itself.
In my opinion, ECA cannot be all things to all people and cannot involve itself in every battle. There's simply not enough money and not enough time in the day.
As for your activism, you have certainly done more than most folks, and, as a fellow vaper, I appreciate your efforts.
On the one hand, I think it promotes a higher profile for PVs, introducing it to people who may never have seen or heard of PVs. It also gives people the opportunity to try it right there on the spot to see whether it's something they might be able to embrace.
On the other hand, the mall kiosk operations seem to be rife with problems. While I'm sure there are some good ones out there (and I have no doubt yours is one of them), there are some really unethical and uninformed people out there operating kiosks.
However one falls on the mall kiosk issue, though, I think you, Mac, are taking this way too personally. No one at ECA or in the vaping community is gunning for you or your job.
But, yes, you can do something with an email sent to someone else. I agree that you couldn't necessarily initiate a lawsuit, but that email was a very strong indication of what was in the works and what was going to be the policy. THAT was the time to send emails and letters of your own, request meetings, and generally try to inform and educate while positions had perhaps not yet hardened.
I will say this: I am simply a consumer. I have absolutely no financial stake in any of this. As a consumer, I do not believe that there is 100% unity of interest between me and ANY supplier/manufacturer. Likewise, I do not believe there is a 100% unity of interest amongst all suppliers. For example, some, like you, depend on a brick and mortar location. Others rely on the internet. You can no doubt already see that there will be potentially conflicting interests there.
But despite a complete lack of unity of interest, consumers and suppliers are ALL aligned on the big issue . . . the necessity of ensuring that PVs remain legal.
In my mind, THAT is the battle that ECA needs to focus on . . . ensuring that PVs remain legal. ECA is positioned to make a big difference on a national level and lend assistance in other critical efforts involving the legality of the PV itself.
In my opinion, ECA cannot be all things to all people and cannot involve itself in every battle. There's simply not enough money and not enough time in the day.
As for your activism, you have certainly done more than most folks, and, as a fellow vaper, I appreciate your efforts.
I don't even know what is going on with this feud but I agree with you 100%. We all know what is coming and NOW is the time to fight it. By the time it reaches legislation it is pretty much too late. We have to change their minds before it reaches that point.
Maybe we need to start having sit-ins in their offices with our e-cigs. March down the streets. Whatever. Asking nicely and begging just does not work. Take a good look at any group that has accomplished anything (other than groups with large amounts of money) and you will see they are ones that have been very vocal and with an in your face attitude.
If you live in VA, please go to this thread and respond. Thanks!
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...dents-virginia-please-respond.html#post879912
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...dents-virginia-please-respond.html#post879912
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