Outright bans are the only issue. It is a given e-nic will be prohibited where smoking is not allowed. There has been too much of a time gap between the demonization of cigarettes and the advent of e-nic.
ECig Bans and Classification Of
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Outright bans are the only issue. It is a given e-nic will be prohibited where smoking is not allowed. There has been too much of a time gap between the demonization of cigarettes and the advent of e-nic.
You think it is a given that we won't be able to vape on the beach or in a public park?
"The gathering European opposition to electronic cigarettes is the result of kneejerk cultural prejudice, puritanical vindictiveness, corporate collusion, and the unconscionable greed of tax authorities that won't be able to heap the same punitive, confiscatory, opportunistic duties on a product that doesn't hurt anyone."
God I love this woman
All summed up in 1 small paragraph
(Taken from Lionel Shriver's article in the Guardian which was brilliant BTW
(pity about the comments,but haters gotta hate)
reposting DC2s link:
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/jan/05/e-cigarettes-tobacco-harmless-enjoyable
God I love this woman
All summed up in 1 small paragraph(Taken from Lionel Shriver's article in the Guardian which was brilliant BTW
(pity about the comments,but haters gotta hate)
reposting DC2s link:
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/jan/05/e-cigarettes-tobacco-harmless-enjoyable
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Well, I certainly can't argue with that, but at least I can still fight it.
As far as I know, they haven't yet taken away my "right" to disagree with them.
Kristin, my view certainly isnt ANTZ food. From my perspective quitting something is a lifelong endeavor and a very tough one to call even after a few years because who knows what the future may hold that could drive one back to habits so ingrained into them from decades of practice.
Switching means the habit has been replaced. It is also much more attractive to a current smoker so potentially beneficial in converting more of them from their smoking habit which in turn is good for all of us in that we gain support of greater numbers.
The important thing is to educate everyone you can as I know you know and put much effort into. The education of the masses as to what the difference between smoking and pretending to smoke is where the line needs to be defined.
Switching means the habit has been replaced. It is also much more attractive to a current smoker so potentially beneficial in converting more of them from their smoking habit which in turn is good for all of us in that we gain support of greater numbers.
The important thing is to educate everyone you can as I know you know and put much effort into. The education of the masses as to what the difference between smoking and pretending to smoke is where the line needs to be defined.
If anyone tells me I haven't "quit smoking" they are going to be sorry they did.
And that's the name of that tune.
I've spent time on a "quit smoking" forum that was brainwashed into anti-nicotine rhetoric.
Their arguments can't hold up in the light of day.
And that's the name of that tune.
I've spent time on a "quit smoking" forum that was brainwashed into anti-nicotine rhetoric.
Their arguments can't hold up in the light of day.
To be fair, you have quit smoking, but not quit nicotine. That can be proven by the fact that you are no longer inhaling smoke or burning tobacco. It might sound like semantics, but the difference is important. ANTZ be damned, anyways.
Something we all have to realize is that if you haven't quit smoking, why aren't you using a cigarette instead of a PV? Cigs are easier, deliver nicotine faster, and are much simpler to maintain and obtain. So why the PV, non-quitters? Don't tell me taste or smell, either. Smokers have proven that given only a certain cig to burn, they will adapt and eventually become totally used to any taste or smell, so long as there is nic to be had.
The honest truth is that everyone that has ceased lighting cigarettes has stopped smoking, but still has a nicotine habit. They are not one in the same. And it is important to realize that, because otherwise, why the hell are you not lighting up? Reality is what reality is, not what anyone wants it to be, and a contradiction cannot exist is the nature of reality.
When I vape, I inhale approximately five (5) ingredients:
1) PG , 2) VG , 3)Nicotine , 4) Water and 5) Flavoring.
When I smoked, I inhaled approximately 4000 chemicals.
So the rush to "Prohibit" e-cig use makes no sense to me.
Certainly, vaping is a much more healthy alternative to smoking.
I don't know myself, but wonder, what is the nicotine content of nicotine patches, lozenges and gum as compared to the nicotine content of a typical e-cig cartridge?
I have yet to see anyone toss an e-cig battery out of their car window.
I have yet to see anyone toss an empty cartridge or clearomizer onto the street.
I have yet to walk a beach and see e-cig litter.
Those who oppose my right to choose to vape vice smoke, seem hell bent on "prohibiting" a culture that can actually benefit everyone.
Okay, I am of the rebellious generation. A generation that for the most part stood together and fought for change. Many of us wondered why it was that we could be sent to war but could not legally, smoke, drink alcohol or vote.
Yes, I did my time in the military.
Yes, I served during Vietnam.
Yes, I am U. S. Navy retired.
Yes, I have seen the people give up rights for the privilege of being taken care of.
Yes, I have seen the school systems raided . . . Students being told what they can and cannot read. Cursive writing isn't taught in my Grandkids school . . . The education system states it is no longer necessary.
People are being dummied down so that they will do as they are told and not to question. Worry not they are told, we the government will take care of you. Between the lines, I hear, we shall control you.
Reckon I am still rebellious, for I am not ready to lay down and die.
Prohibition of e-cigs is in my mind, ridiculous . I will do what I can to promote e-cigs . . . The Better Alternative.
1) PG , 2) VG , 3)Nicotine , 4) Water and 5) Flavoring.
When I smoked, I inhaled approximately 4000 chemicals.
So the rush to "Prohibit" e-cig use makes no sense to me.
Certainly, vaping is a much more healthy alternative to smoking.
I don't know myself, but wonder, what is the nicotine content of nicotine patches, lozenges and gum as compared to the nicotine content of a typical e-cig cartridge?
I have yet to see anyone toss an e-cig battery out of their car window.
I have yet to see anyone toss an empty cartridge or clearomizer onto the street.
I have yet to walk a beach and see e-cig litter.
Those who oppose my right to choose to vape vice smoke, seem hell bent on "prohibiting" a culture that can actually benefit everyone.
Okay, I am of the rebellious generation. A generation that for the most part stood together and fought for change. Many of us wondered why it was that we could be sent to war but could not legally, smoke, drink alcohol or vote.
Yes, I did my time in the military.
Yes, I served during Vietnam.
Yes, I am U. S. Navy retired.
Yes, I have seen the people give up rights for the privilege of being taken care of.
Yes, I have seen the school systems raided . . . Students being told what they can and cannot read. Cursive writing isn't taught in my Grandkids school . . . The education system states it is no longer necessary.
People are being dummied down so that they will do as they are told and not to question. Worry not they are told, we the government will take care of you. Between the lines, I hear, we shall control you.
Reckon I am still rebellious, for I am not ready to lay down and die.
Prohibition of e-cigs is in my mind, ridiculous . I will do what I can to promote e-cigs . . . The Better Alternative.
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Navy, "People are being dummied down so that they will do as they are told and not to question. Worry not they are told, we the government will take care of you. Between the lines, I hear, we shall control you.
Reckon I am still rebellious, for I am not ready to lay down and die.
Prohibition of e-cigs is in my mind, ridiculous . I will do what I can to promote e-cigs . . . The Better Alternative."
I know you look at what's happened over the decades much as I do. It really is hard to see the America we grew up in, turned into the one we have today and that extends well past the e cig discussion. The clock might be ticking down, but I'm not willing to just get pushed around and I'm hoping the younger generations wake up before it's too late.
Reckon I am still rebellious, for I am not ready to lay down and die.
Prohibition of e-cigs is in my mind, ridiculous . I will do what I can to promote e-cigs . . . The Better Alternative."
I know you look at what's happened over the decades much as I do. It really is hard to see the America we grew up in, turned into the one we have today and that extends well past the e cig discussion. The clock might be ticking down, but I'm not willing to just get pushed around and I'm hoping the younger generations wake up before it's too late.
Oh, but it is. You just don't realize it. And your worry about vapers going back to smoking because they haven't "quit the behavior" is another one they use as an unfounded "concern," to convince the public we should all be using "safe and effective" gums, patches and Chantix. And why, they say, THR won't work - in spite of the evidence that it does.
The difference between smoking and pretending to smoke is...you've quit smoking.
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I may have to add this quote to my signature banner!! well said!.
The difference between smoking and pretending to smoke is...you've quit smoking.
That's a good idea I sit and watch the antismoking commercials and think how they want to stop vaping.
All the politicians are FOS!!!!!!!!!!!!
Oh, but it is. You just don't realize it. And your worry about vapers going back to smoking because they haven't "quit the behavior" is another one they use as an unfounded "concern," to convince the public we should all be using "safe and effective" gums, patches and Chantix. And why, they say, THR won't work - in spite of the evidence that it does.
The difference between smoking and pretending to smoke is...you've quit smoking.
You illustrated beautifully why we see this differently.
The behavior isnt the problem, the smoke is. Every option Pharma has presented has met dismal success rates because it did not address the behavior. We should not be hiding from the behavior because that is what keeps us from smoking. Take away the ability to vape and where will a large part of those currently vaping be? So if they go back to smoking did they quit anything?
I will stand by my assertion that I switched from smoking to vaping and have not had one desire for a cigarette since I did.
My disagreement wasn't you saying you switched, but saying you "haven't quit anything," too.
It's imperative you understand the tactics being used against us.
We have BOTH switched AND quit.
It's imperative you understand the tactics being used against us.
We have BOTH switched AND quit.
Its just semantics Kristin, i dont like to use the word quit as I dont like to use the word hate. Quit has a finality to it. If I hold my breath have I quit breathing? Only if I hold it long enough to die, then I will have quit breathing.
You do great things for a lot of folks and I dont want to cause you any consternation. I do have my opinions as do you and as others have stated they are solidly on the quit line. I am just not so sure for myself, if I had no ecig tomorrow I think I would be looking for something to fill that behavior.
I smoked for 37 years, when I switched my life took an incredible positive turn. I had lived with a pain like a knife under my shoulderblade for over a decade I thought was due to pleurisy from a scar received by Valley Fever. About three weeks after switching to vaping something loosened up and one morning I sat up on the side of the bed and had a small hack, nothing like the normal coughing just enough to expel a small hard chunk. That pain went away and I have not had it since. Doctors wanted to give me Vicodin as their answer to the pain I had, it was not unbearable but persistent for over a decade so I shunned the drugs and just lived with it as a matter of course.
So you can see we are most definitely on the same side, I have great respect and nothing else for all the organizations that are working to make sure our right to vape remains. I read recently that vaping should be a human right because of the change that it can impact planet wide, I agree.
Keep up your fight for us, I am a supporter and will continue to do what I can from my end.
You do great things for a lot of folks and I dont want to cause you any consternation. I do have my opinions as do you and as others have stated they are solidly on the quit line. I am just not so sure for myself, if I had no ecig tomorrow I think I would be looking for something to fill that behavior.
I smoked for 37 years, when I switched my life took an incredible positive turn. I had lived with a pain like a knife under my shoulderblade for over a decade I thought was due to pleurisy from a scar received by Valley Fever. About three weeks after switching to vaping something loosened up and one morning I sat up on the side of the bed and had a small hack, nothing like the normal coughing just enough to expel a small hard chunk. That pain went away and I have not had it since. Doctors wanted to give me Vicodin as their answer to the pain I had, it was not unbearable but persistent for over a decade so I shunned the drugs and just lived with it as a matter of course.
So you can see we are most definitely on the same side, I have great respect and nothing else for all the organizations that are working to make sure our right to vape remains. I read recently that vaping should be a human right because of the change that it can impact planet wide, I agree.
Keep up your fight for us, I am a supporter and will continue to do what I can from my end.
I agree we are on the same side, but it's honestly not just semantics. It's two completely separate yet closely related things: quitting nicotine and the behavior/habit vs. quitting smoke exposure. I also agree the behavior aspect and nicotine is what keeps most of us from going back to smoking, but it also means we are NOT smoking ie. we quit smoking.
Think of this statement:
"He didn't quit drinking socially on weekends, but he quit driving drunk."
Is that second "quit" in the sentence just semantics? Or does it make a huge difference, because the second quit is far, far more important than the first? Would we say just because he's still drinking, he didn't quit driving drunk even though he no longer drives when he drinks? No. The whole point is quitting the DANGEROUS part of the activity.
The ANTZ claim that quitting the dangerous aspect of smoking doesn't matter. As far as they are concerned, that guy hasn't quit driving drunk unless he also quits drinking altogether. Do you agree with that? I don't. It's not just semantics. If you don't drink and drive, you are not drunk driving no matter how much you drink. Maybe some folks need to quit drinking altogether in order to not drive drunk, but most of us just need to not get behind the wheel when we've been drinking.
You said "we haven't quit ANYTHING." I strongly disagree and think it's a dangerous thing for vapers to be saying. It's not just you who thinks this way and that concerns me most. We quit inhaling and exhaling smoke and that's what matters more than anything.
Think of this statement:
"He didn't quit drinking socially on weekends, but he quit driving drunk."
Is that second "quit" in the sentence just semantics? Or does it make a huge difference, because the second quit is far, far more important than the first? Would we say just because he's still drinking, he didn't quit driving drunk even though he no longer drives when he drinks? No. The whole point is quitting the DANGEROUS part of the activity.
The ANTZ claim that quitting the dangerous aspect of smoking doesn't matter. As far as they are concerned, that guy hasn't quit driving drunk unless he also quits drinking altogether. Do you agree with that? I don't. It's not just semantics. If you don't drink and drive, you are not drunk driving no matter how much you drink. Maybe some folks need to quit drinking altogether in order to not drive drunk, but most of us just need to not get behind the wheel when we've been drinking.
You said "we haven't quit ANYTHING." I strongly disagree and think it's a dangerous thing for vapers to be saying. It's not just you who thinks this way and that concerns me most. We quit inhaling and exhaling smoke and that's what matters more than anything.
I greatly appreciate reading the discussion between both OCD and Kristin Both have some valid points. Far too often lately around here people choose to argue instead of discuss and I find discusssion of different points of view refreshing
Based on my own experience I agree with Kristin. In the beginning of vaping I used the phrase that I 'switched" from smoking to vaping because I believed it was an accurate phrase. To me at time, the habits and use of nicotine I continued to enjoy didn't quite fit the full meaning of the word quit, switch just fit better to me so I used it more often then quit even though I also knew I'd quit smoking cigarettes.
Then one day I realized that many people that I was speaking to were seeing my use of "switch" to enforce THEIR belief that the words smoking and vaping were synonyms. Hard for me to see it for a while because I knew the huge difference between the two, BUT many didn't see the differences. Most often it was the true ANTZ of smoking that chose to use the word switch to enforce their belief that vaping was the same as smoking. When I did say I'd quit smoking they'd actually get quite angry and tell me I had only switched and hadn't quit anything. I DID quit smoking cigarettes and inhaling that nasty smoke and other chemicals in cigs and have stayed QUIT for over 3 years. The fact of whether or not I ever smoke again or continue to vape for the rest of my life or quit vaping doesn't change the fact that I did quit smoking 1235 days ago. I refuse to be considered or treated as a smoker by anyone because I choose to vape.
Both have some valid points. Far too often lately around here people choose to argue instead of discuss and I find discusssion of different points of view refreshing Based on my own experience I agree with Kristin. In the beginning of vaping I used the phrase that I 'switched" from smoking to vaping because I believed it was an accurate phrase. To me at time, the habits and use of nicotine I continued to enjoy didn't quite fit the full meaning of the word quit, switch just fit better to me so I used it more often then quit even though I also knew I'd quit smoking cigarettes.
Then one day I realized that many people that I was speaking to were seeing my use of "switch" to enforce THEIR belief that the words smoking and vaping were synonyms. Hard for me to see it for a while because I knew the huge difference between the two, BUT many didn't see the differences. Most often it was the true ANTZ of smoking that chose to use the word switch to enforce their belief that vaping was the same as smoking. When I did say I'd quit smoking they'd actually get quite angry and tell me I had only switched and hadn't quit anything. I DID quit smoking cigarettes and inhaling that nasty smoke and other chemicals in cigs and have stayed QUIT for over 3 years. The fact of whether or not I ever smoke again or continue to vape for the rest of my life or quit vaping doesn't change the fact that I did quit smoking 1235 days ago. I refuse to be considered or treated as a smoker by anyone because I choose to vape.
I too used the word "switched" early on, until a co-worker tried to beat me up with the dismissive "you just switched your addiction" argument. And this was a guy who initially expressed interest in learning about vaping ...
All words have connotations, negative or positive, and a clever debater can use them to obscure your point ...
"Switching" suggests a continuation, while "quitting" implies finality. My adoption of vaping spelled the end on my smoking habit, so quitting is indeed a better word to convey the experience to another person, without creating an opportunity for confusion or obfuscation (love that word
) ...So I also quit using the word "switch" ...
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