ecigs front page on foxnews.com

[jennydotz]

I just heard on the radio, as in 10-15 minutes ago, that Obama quit smoking. It was from some interview with Michelle. Think its true? Or will he just be a closet smoker?

In case anyone was wondering, the Obama girls are getting their dog most likely during Spring Break. Now that's news.

 

[macpanda]

I just heard on the radio, as in 10-15 minutes ago, that Obama quit smoking. It was from some interview with Michelle. Think its true? Or will he just be a closet smoker?

In case anyone was wondering, the Obama girls are getting their dog most likely during Spring Break. Now that's news.

Well im sure when all hell breaks loose in some tiny little country where the government is collapsing or we got some missles pointed at us he may have to smoke to calm him self a bit. Presidents are so unhealthy when they eventually leave the office at the end of there terms cus the job is so stressful. I would need analogs, PVs, or snus or something to keep me sane if I were president i think

 

[TribbleTrouble]

I just heard on the radio, as in 10-15 minutes ago, that Obama quit smoking. It was from some interview with Michelle. Think its true? Or will he just be a closet smoker?

In case anyone was wondering, the Obama girls are getting their dog most likely during Spring Break. Now that's news.

For all we know, Obama already has his own PV, he just doesn't want his nasty habits to be on the front page of the Newspaper or on CNN/FoxNews. I wouldn't want some upstart e-cig dude putting up billboards calling me out for my smoking. Any underground PV network won't need advertising, anyway. We need to get the PV network going soon.

 

[ejfan1977]

Well we have have a pretty good start with the members of the forum here. We would just have to divide them up into areas/countries. Develop another site and name it something obscure, with the home page looking like something completely different from what is inside. Of course we will need a way to verify the true "Wholy Technofoggers" from the "outsiders".

 

[ejfan1977]

It could be if you did not originate from this site it would have to be by referral and approval by senior site members before a login would be allowed.

 

[RjG]

Wow, you guys - that's a lot of panic ;-)

The US (or Canadian) government won't / CAN'T ban atomizers. It's just a thing. The thing itself isn't illegal. Just like they can't ban bongs, crack pipes, or any other drug paraphernalia coming across the border ever day.

The major point I'm making is if you can fill it with zero nic fluid and puff away on it, it's not illegal in any way shape or form.

What they can, and will, ban is something labeled CIGARETTE. That labeling is the dumbest thing this industry did. "E" or not, that's a very identifiable word.

All that can possibly come of this is that they will have to start calling them something more intelligent, like personal vaporizer, or something else creative.
Remove ALL reference to "Smoking" "Cigarette" "Smokeless" etc etc etc and the problem is solved.

Where we *ARE* going to run into problems is getting nicotine liquid.
When that gets classified as a DRUG (and it will) that's the end of it. You'll have to have a license to import it, it will have FDA classification and regulation, and it will be TAXED, heavily. The tax will be equal to the revenue lost to the goverment compared the the cigarettes you won't be buying.

 

[RjG]

Here's a neat article of why they won't ban smoking, and NEED to tax anything that may replace it. These "eclipse" cigs are an analog "vaper", kinda cool, never heard of them before reading this fox article!
The Unloading Zone: What if RJ Reynolds had invented Eclipse Cigarettes 40 years ago?

 

[TribbleTrouble]

Wow, you guys - that's a lot of panic ;-)

The US (or Canadian) government won't / CAN'T ban atomizers. It's just a thing. The thing itself isn't illegal. Just like they can't ban bongs, crack pipes, or any other drug paraphernalia coming across the border ever day.

The major point I'm making is if you can fill it with zero nic fluid and puff away on it, it's not illegal in any way shape or form.

What they can, and will, ban is something labeled CIGARETTE. That labeling is the dumbest thing this industry did. "E" or not, that's a very identifiable word.

All that can possibly come of this is that they will have to start calling them something more intelligent, like personal vaporizer, or something else creative.
Remove ALL reference to "Smoking" "Cigarette" "Smokeless" etc etc etc and the problem is solved.

Where we *ARE* going to run into problems is getting nicotine liquid.
When that gets classified as a DRUG (and it will) that's the end of it. You'll have to have a license to import it, it will have FDA classification and regulation, and it will be TAXED, heavily. The tax will be equal to the revenue lost to the goverment compared the the cigarettes you won't be buying.

I'm not in a panic, I'm just being proactive about figuring out a way to keep my supply of gear flowing inspite of the possiblities. I agree with separating the gear from the liquid completely and renaming it, but there are a lot of intelligent people (TB) who feel that the idea is ridiculous, and there is no hope. I am just putting it out there that I will do anything I can to insure that I have my PV. Anything!

 

[TribbleTrouble]

Here's a neat article of why they won't ban smoking, and NEED to tax anything that may replace it. These "eclipse" cigs are an analog "vaper", kinda cool, never heard of them before reading this fox article!
The Unloading Zone: What if RJ Reynolds had invented Eclipse Cigarettes 40 years ago?

Everything I have heard about the Eclipse from members on this forum has been negative. I've never tried them, myself. I have never even seen them sold anywhere.

 

[RjG]

P.S. just to put some perspective on this - you can also import every component on a nuclear weapon. No problem getting every component shipped, checked at customs, and delivered to your door. Much like atomizers, and batteries, they are just things, parts, pieces. They don't do or contain anything that can be labeled ILLEGAL.

It's just the detonator, sphere of high explosive, and that nasty ball of plutonium that is illegal. Things that are dangerous all on their own. (which unfortunately is how the nic liquid will be classified)

 

[BlueSun]

Don't worry, guys. If you need any help, Vincent "Cheeky Monkey" Carillo will be willing to help you with your smuggling operations - for a nice cut, of course. Capice?

 

[RjG]

Everything I have heard about the Eclipse from members on this forum has been negative. I've never tried them, myself. I have never even seen them sold anywhere.

Oh, I wasn't promoting that, just thought it was cool that there actually existed an analog vaping device, lol.

Why I posted the link was for this paragraph:
The answer is simple: Tax Revenue. Hundreds of Billions of Dollars are raised every year by State and the Federal governments punitively taxing cigarette smokers. The hard truth is that if cigarettes were banned and criminalized tomorrow, within 30 days thousands of schools would be forced to close do to lack of funding. Whole State governments would collapse and go broke. All the social engineering programs liberals embrace and the defense budget conservatives stoke would grind to a screeching halt.

 

[Sun Vaporer]

Wow, you guys - that's a lot of panic ;-)

The US (or Canadian) government won't / CAN'T ban atomizers. It's just a thing.

RJG--I would love to agree with you --I really would--but as Steve said the FDA is classifing the "thing" as a medical device and that falls in their scope of authority to ban absent registration and approval. So could you please give us a cite to where we can read that the FDA does not have the autority. I agree that these devices should be looked at as nothing more then a water pipe, etc., and

I have made the statment many times that Suppliers should sell them with ZERO nicotine in their starter packs, and then let people buy Nicotine cartridges and e-liquid under seperate cover--but I do not think that will happen. I agree the device should not be banned as the consern is the nicotine, but what we think is totally different then what the FDA is going to do. As Steve knows more then most with large orders being confiscatated on him--I am going to have to defer to him until someone cites authority to the contrary.
The news coverage yesterday was "bad press" at best and a major blow--Let's hope for the best--but prepare for the worst. -Sun

 

[TribbleTrouble]

P.S. just to put some perspective on this - you can also import every component on a nuclear weapon. No problem getting every component shipped, checked at customs, and delivered to your door. Much like atomizers, and batteries, they are just things, parts, pieces. They don't do or contain anything that can be labeled ILLEGAL.

It's just the detonator, sphere of high explosive, and that nasty ball of plutonium that is illegal. Things that are dangerous all on their own. (which unfortunately is how the nic liquid will be classified)

I agree completely. We need all of the manufacturers and suppliers to get behind the idea of separating the liquid from the device, and renaming the device to get out from under the FDA "Drug/Device Combo" tag it has recently given to the "Electronic Cigarette". I, for one, will make a resolution from this day on, to never call it an "E-Cig" ever again. Personal Vaporizer, or PV for short, is the only name I will use from here to eternity.

 

[TribbleTrouble]

Don't worry, guys. If you need any help, Vincent "Cheeky Monkey" Carillo will be willing to help you with your smuggling operations - for a nice cut, of course. Capice?

BlueSun, you are on the "Trust" list.

 

[mu.zeitgeist]

I'm down for supplying underground.
Made in USA Juice bubblers for $100 a pop.
Come and get it.

BYOJ (bring yo own juice)

 

[RjG]

RJG--I would love to agree with you --I really would--but as Steve said the FDA is classifing the "thing" as a medical device and that falls in their scope of authority to ban absent registration and approval. So could you please give us a cite to where we can read that the FDA does not have the autority. I agree that these devices should be looked at as nothing more then a water pipe, etc., and ...

All you have to do is looks what's out there, and what is already defined as legal. It's all about the wording.

As for an entire KIT, atomizer, batteries, charger etc,
If you include a cart filled with HERBAL liquid, label the package as a herbal atomizer, it just became legal, within the existing classifications.

I don't even know if you'd have to include the herbal cart, but would be a good idea IMHO ;-)

It's when you promote/label the device as being an e-cigarette, this is where the legal problems are arising.

Example: If you import a ...., well, Drug paraphernalia are illegal. Statute, U. S. Code Title 21 Section 863 drug paraphernalia, makes it "unlawful for any person to sell or offer for sale drug paraphernalia; to use the mails or any other facility of interstate commerce to transport drug paraphernalia; or to import or export drug paraphernalia."

Yet, importing/selling a Shisha water pipe or herbal vaporizer is just fine.
But, put a Cannabis leaf on the box, now it's illegal again.
If you SELL ir IMPORT the herbal vaporizer from the same shop that promotes Cannabis, now it became illegal again, lol, since there is an "inferred" use attached to it.

Call it a .... it's paraphernalia, if it's called a water pipe it's a tobacco smoking accessory.

Call it an e-cigarete, it's an unapproved medical device for the delivery of nicotine, if it's called a herbal vaporizer, now it's something else.

All about the wording, labeling, promotion, this is what defines a device as what it is under the law.

 

[ejfan1977]

Well said RjG! I think you are spot on!

 

[Sun Vaporer]

Example: If you import a ...., well, Drug paraphernalia are illegal. Statute, U. S. Code Title 21 Section 863 drug paraphernalia, makes it "unlawful for any person to sell or offer for sale drug paraphernalia; to use the mails or any other facility of interstate commerce to transport drug paraphernalia; or to import or export drug paraphernalia."

Yet, importing/selling a Shisha water pipe or herbal vaporizer is just fine.
But, put a Cannabis leaf on the box, now it's illegal again.
If you SELL ir IMPORT the herbal vaporizer from the same shop that promotes Cannabis, now it became illegal again, lol, since there is an "inferred" use attached to it..

RJG--That is correct--But Suppliers refuse to stop selling the nicotine cartridges with the device--as I have posted many times--if Suppliers sold the Starter Kit with zero Nicotine cartridges and the nicotine under seperate cover, then the attack would go to the nicotine only---But if the Suppliers keep selling Starter Kits that come with Nicotine--the contention fails. As it stands now--it is like "selling a water pipe with the illict drug" instead of just "selling the water pipe"--Makes sense to me

It is the Suppliers that have the fate of the device in their hands. So how do you get the Suppliers to stop selling the Starter Kits without the nicotine cartridges????? That is the issue. It is so easy to make the change, but so hard for them to see that the nicotine and the device need to be marketed seperatly--The FDA would be hard pressed IMO to ban a device that is sold with zero nicotine cartridges here in the US.
---Sun

 

[RjG]

Absolutely

When the Chinese discover that their sales suddenly become ZERO, there were be an overnight relabelling, I'm sure. And the "sample" carts will become zero nic, or herbal.

It just needs some time to sort itself out

But getting the nic liquid will be a different story. When that gets regulated,
I see NO way of getting around that one