ecigs/ vaping "just as bad for you"

[Amraann]

OK the verdict is in LOLOL

As promised I spoke to my friend the retired ER surgeon. He does not think that e-cigs are the same as smoking.
He agrees that e-cigs are probably better than analogs. He would like more scientific research.
I did not get to have the complete conversation that I wished to. (Other people talking etc)
However I can email him about it for further conversation.

He did say that he thought it was expensive. He really had no idea what e-cigs or liquids cost. I did explain that part to him.
Since he was never a smoker he really had no idea what cigs cost either.

 

[catilley1092]

Funny, a month after I gave up the smoke & began vaping, my doctor stated how much better my lungs sounded. Prior to this, I was having some mild pain in the right side of the chest on & off, it gradually went away.

Earlier this month, she told me that she was glad to see me continue not smoking, so not all doctors sees e-cigs as evil. I mean, common sense would state that breathing any smoke, even burning leaves, is bad.

Even my granddaughter, when she gave me a hug at Christmas, told me how much better I smelled. She's only 8 years old & would avoid contact prior, she even brags on me.

Those who states that e-cigs are as harmful as smoking has evidently fell for the propaganda w/out checking out the facts. One fact of which, cigarette smoke has at least 2,000 known harmful elements & is one of the leading killers in modernized nations.

Cat

 

[Midniteoyl]

Whether a doctor agrees or not, I would think that YOU would want to make sure it is changed in the records for the insurance alone.. Smokers pay sooo much more, especially when older.

 

[therussellv]

Simple, people are stupid, all people, humanity is stupid and it should be stopped!

(We apologise on behalf of Russell, he is in crotchety mode and needs to yell at people)

Last stinky October 15, 2013

 

[Hey.al]

Whether a doctor agrees or not, I would think that YOU would want to make sure it is changed in the records for the insurance alone.. Smokers pay sooo much more, especially when older.

Yes, I agree with this. Thanks for all the replies to my thread. You all are great


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[ElectricalSocket]

Good god I can't believe even vapers are saying nicotine is highly addictive. No, it is not. Scientific fact.

The MAOI's in tobacco reinforce (makes stronger) the nicotine addiction. Keep up with the facts and don't spread misinformation please.

http://m.jneurosci.org/content/25/38/8593.full

 

[Razorback]

Good god I can't believe even vapers are saying nicotine is highly addictive. No, it is not. Scientific fact.

The MAOI's in tobacco reinforce (makes stronger) the nicotine addiction. Keep up with the facts and don't spread misinformation please.

J. Neurosci. | Mobile

I agree with you here... That's why so many people are able to go from 24mg (or higher) nic, down to 8mg, even 0mg in a manner of months, or a year or two if they so choose. Notice I said choose, because that's not possible with a SERIOUS addiction.... those only get worse. My vaping addiction only includes buying a lot of crap I don't necessarily need....

 

[ClanMcCloud]

I'll chime in, I'm definitely noticing withdrawal symptoms from nicotine during the day since I don't vape at work. There is no doubt that nicotine has a physical addictive quality. However, I don't remember my last analog (maybe 6 weeks ago now), but I've quickly stepped down from 24mg, to 12mg, to 6mg, and am waiting patiently for the budget to allow two bottles of my favorite ejuice to mix a 3mg. The positive effects far, far outweigh the negatives of inhaling burnt leaf and were apparent within a week or so.

I was a light smoker (rollies, 5-10 a day), and my doctor/NP was somewhat concerned, but not much. She was much more excited that I stay active and keep exercising regularly. I will say I'm much more concerned about still being identified as a smoker by friends and family, even though it really is just about the nicotine. All I can do is educate, instruct, and elevate.

Back to nicotine, I've noticed that I can't drink a cup of coffee if I vape; the effects are similar enough that I don't crave coffee if I vape. Other enthusiasms, uh, raising the flag the morning for example, is returning to pre-smoking 'levels'.

Well, I can't thank enough ECF and lurking and reading here all the supportive posts. Truly great! Keep vaping!

 

[Midniteoyl]

I'll chime in, I'm definitely noticing withdrawal symptoms from nicotine during the day since I don't vape at work. There is no doubt that nicotine has a physical addictive quality. However, I don't remember my last analog (maybe 6 weeks ago now), but I've quickly stepped down from 24mg, to 12mg, to 6mg, and am waiting patiently for the budget to allow two bottles of my favorite ejuice to mix a 3mg. The positive effects far, far outweigh the negatives of inhaling burnt leaf and were apparent within a week or so.

I was a light smoker (rollies, 5-10 a day), and my doctor/NP was somewhat concerned, but not much. She was much more excited that I stay active and keep exercising regularly. I will say I'm much more concerned about still being identified as a smoker by friends and family, even though it really is just about the nicotine. All I can do is educate, instruct, and elevate.

Back to nicotine, I've noticed that I can't drink a cup of coffee if I vape; the effects are similar enough that I don't crave coffee if I vape. Other enthusiasms, uh, raising the flag the morning for example, is returning to pre-smoking 'levels'.

Well, I can't thank enough ECF and lurking and reading here all the supportive posts. Truly great! Keep vaping!

I've noticed my coffee intake has gone down since I started vapping too.. At one time I was a 2+ pot a day drinker, but I had worked that down to about 5-6 cups. Since I started vaping, I'm maybe 2 cups. And thats if I actually think about coffee, most days I forget..

 

[CMartin]

I'll chime in, I'm definitely noticing withdrawal symptoms from nicotine during the day since I don't vape at work. There is no doubt that nicotine has a physical addictive quality. However, I don't remember my last analog (maybe 6 weeks ago now), but I've quickly stepped down from 24mg, to 12mg, to 6mg, and am waiting patiently for the budget to allow two bottles of my favorite ejuice to mix a 3mg. The positive effects far, far outweigh the negatives of inhaling burnt leaf and were apparent within a week or so.

I was a light smoker (rollies, 5-10 a day), and my doctor/NP was somewhat concerned, but not much. She was much more excited that I stay active and keep exercising regularly. I will say I'm much more concerned about still being identified as a smoker by friends and family, even though it really is just about the nicotine. All I can do is educate, instruct, and elevate.

Back to nicotine, I've noticed that I can't drink a cup of coffee if I vape; the effects are similar enough that I don't crave coffee if I vape. Other enthusiasms, uh, raising the flag the morning for example, is returning to pre-smoking 'levels'.

Well, I can't thank enough ECF and lurking and reading here all the supportive posts. Truly great! Keep vaping!

How about you two and all ex smokers start vaping with 0mg/ml, and never ever even try e-liquid with nicotine ? To you, stepping down down from 24 to 6mg in six weeks is quickly, but actually that's long time my friend. Why didn't you stepped down from 24 to 6mg in six days ? You needed six weeks. And you plan to go down to 3mg in an additional period of time. Here on ECF more experienced vaporistas strongly suggest ex-smokers to start vaping with a high nicotine e-juice; lower nicotine concentration in an e-liquid often tempts ex-smokers to buy another pack of tobacco products. What's the use of one lab research which shows nicotine itself isn't highly addictive when in practice and especially in practice of vaping we experience something completely different. Flush the nonsensical research down the toilet.

I understand there is a fear of press satanizing electronic cigarettes, but quoting an obviously flawed research to support vapeing isn't a way to go (not you, someone else did it in this thread). There are vaporistas who are becoming fanatical like those in Usenet and web forums participating in Windows vs Linux and Win vs Mac wars, who do not want to recognize and categorically deny any flaw in their OS of choice, and there are vaporistas too who would defend their way of quiting tobacco no matter what it takes even if it means denying the very obvious.

Nicotine is highly addictive substance, all vapers feel it. We don't need someone else to tell us the opposite, because all vapers feel nicotine's addiction and choose mg/ml in our e-liquid accordingly. Or, you and the other poster above, and all future vaporistas ex smokers - ditch your e-liquid with nicotine and start vaping with just 0mg/ml. Right now, as of this moment. And don't use nicotine e-liquid ever again. Would you ? Or would you suggest to ex smokers to use only 0mg/ml in vaping in order to successfully quit tobacco products ? So long about the research and nicotine not being highly addictive.

 

[Sassquatch]

Back to nicotine, I've noticed that I can't drink a cup of coffee if I vape; the effects are similar enough that I don't crave coffee if I vape.

Huh, haven't really noticed that before. Maybe I was more addicted to caffeine than nicotine? I was only about a half-pack a day smoker and tend to vape 12-18mg juice, as opposed to going through at least a liter of caffeinated soda.

On work days, I still need coffee or an energy drink in the morning to get myself awake. Getting up at 3:30 AM...

 

[EdVegas]

But that would mean that chewing nicotine gum and using nicotine patches would mean a user is still a smoker !. Vaping isn't smoking !.

I have mandatory biometrics for my company to get insurance reductions, the thing is they have a Cotinine test and if you come back as positive they will consider you a "Smoker". Guess I'll stop a week before to see if I pass it next time.

 

[Amraann]

How about you two and all ex smokers start vaping with 0mg/ml, and never ever even try e-liquid with nicotine ? To you, stepping down down from 24 to 6mg in six weeks is quickly, but actually that's long time my friend. Why didn't you stepped down from 24 to 6mg in six days ? You needed six weeks. And you plan to go down to 3mg in an additional period of time. Here on ECF more experienced vaporistas strongly suggest ex-smokers to start vaping with a high nicotine e-juice; lower nicotine concentration in an e-liquid often tempts ex-smokers to buy another pack of tobacco products. What's the use of one lab research which shows nicotine itself isn't highly addictive when in practice and especially in practice of vaping we experience something completely different. Flush the nonsensical research down the toilet.

I understand there is a fear of press satanizing electronic cigarettes, but quoting an obviously flawed research to support vapeing isn't a way to go (not you, someone else did it in this thread). There are vaporistas who are becoming fanatical like those in Usenet and web forums participating in Windows vs Linux and Win vs Mac wars, who do not want to recognize and categorically deny any flaw in their OS of choice, and there are vaporistas too who would defend their way of quiting tobacco no matter what it takes even if it means denying the very obvious.

Nicotine is highly addictive substance, all vapers feel it. We don't need someone else to tell us the opposite, because all vapers feel nicotine's addiction and choose mg/ml in our e-liquid accordingly. Or, you and the other poster above, and all future vaporistas ex smokers - ditch your e-liquid with nicotine and start vaping with just 0mg/ml. Right now, as of this moment. And don't use nicotine e-liquid ever again. Would you ? Or would you suggest to ex smokers to use only 0mg/ml in vaping in order to successfully quit tobacco products ? So long about the research and nicotine not being highly addictive.

I think that you quoted the wrong poster. The one you quoted agreed that nicotine is addictive.

 

[crackpot]

My own 2 cents. Have spoken to several doctors (customers of mine). Each states that vaping is far better than smoking. The doctors familiar with vaping tell me that aside from being addictive, nicotine is about as harmful as caffeine (at least in the dosages used by vapers). It's the tar and all the other byproducts of combustion that make smoking so bad. Once again just my 2 cents based on an unscientific polling of doctors (not a patient of any of them).

 

[engel07]

I have COPD and was smoking about 1 pack a day - that was already down from 2 packs!
Tried the FDA approved methods, without any success for the last 2 years. The first time I told my doc I was going to try vaping I got a a giant NO that is not any better. Well I didn't listen to him and 7 weeks ago I stopped the analogs and stayed straight on vaping.
When I told my doc after 3 weeks he said 'OKAY' what left me puzzled. His PA was just thrilled and told me about one of her 'heart' patients that is vaping now and doing much better. I asked her about the doc's reaction and she said she had talked to him after she did some research and he now sees it in a differently, lol.
Anyway saw them last week and they are sooooo happy with my success, not worried about the nicotine at all as long as don't use analogs!!!!
They are not considering me a smoker since I don't use combustibles - there words! My doc, not the PA was even bragging to his office staff last time I saw him about me still NOT SMOKING!
BTW this is my first post on this forum and I am glad to have found you guys and want to thank you for all you sharing your success and your experiences, it really helps a lot

 

[Razorback]

I have COPD and was smoking about 1 pack a day - that was already down from 2 packs!
Tried the FDA approved methods, without any success for the last 2 years. The first time I told my doc I was going to try vaping I got a a giant NO that is not any better. Well I didn't listen to him and 7 weeks ago I stopped the analogs and stayed straight on vaping.
When I told my doc after 3 weeks he said 'OKAY' what left me puzzled. His PA was just thrilled and told me about one of her 'heart' patients that is vaping now and doing much better. I asked her about the doc's reaction and she said she had talked to him after she did some research and he now sees it in a differently, lol.
Anyway saw them last week and they are sooooo happy with my success, not worried about the nicotine at all as long as don't use analogs!!!!
They are not considering me a smoker since I don't use combustibles - there words! My doc, not the PA was even bragging to his office staff last time I saw him about me still NOT SMOKING!
BTW this is my first post on this forum and I am glad to have found you guys and want to thank you for all you sharing your success and your experiences, it really helps a lot

Congrats Engel07.... That's great news!


..... and welcome to the ECF!

 

[Tinkiegrrl]

My doctor was very supportive of my switching to vaping. He even took a pic of my set up for other patients. He's had a few who failed with set ups similar to Blu. My mother is a nurse, and after watching my grandmother die of lung cancer that spread to her brain she purchased a cheap, ego, blister pack for all smoking family members. It boils down to what research they've done really. Just because someone is in the medical profession, doesn't make them knowledgeable about everything. As new things come out, they need to research it just like anyone else. Also like anyone else, depending on where they're getting their info they'll have different opinions on things. When they're being pressed however, most medical professionals do agree that vaping is "most likely" better then smoking.

 

[DaveP]

My doctor was intrigued a little over 4 years ago when I told him I was vaping and had cut back from 2PAD to 5 or 6 after dinner and coffee cigarettes. I printed some articles to leave behind and once he did the research, he started a pamphlet station in his waiting room to inform smokers about a good way to quit.

It's 4 years later and he's happy I'm vaping and not smoking. I have to wonder whether those doctors who aren't on board with vaping just haven't done the research and educated themselves with e-cigarette theory. If someone tells me "We just don't know what's in them", I know they haven't taken the time to read the mass of information that's available. I know what's in them and If the research is correct, then I know that there's little likelihood of a "Gotcha" down the road.

I started at 24mg juice and have cut down incrementally over years. I'm currently at 6mg and not feeling any different than when I was at 11mg. Next stop ... 3mg. My intent is to find the level at which I can pass the continine test, collect $200 a month in reduced health insurance premiums, and Pass Go! If that means zero nic, then by that time, I can vape it and not need nic. I can get my doc to test it on each blood chemistry profile.

Maybe there's something lurking that science can't yet see. I know about the two control groups of rats, one group who lived in a PG fog for two years while the other group breathed plain old lab air. At the end of the year, the PG group of rats were bigger and healthier than the plain air group. Their lab tests and organ examination revealed optimal health, with no anomalies.

I know about thousands of heavy vapers here on ECF who haven't advised us of any problems that could be related to vapor. One member posted two xrays, one from 5 years prior when he was smoking and the other after several years of vaping. His lungs had cleared noticeably and showed no cloudy areas. His doctor noticed the improvement, too.

When someone says ecigs are just as bad as cigarettes, then I feel obligated to ask them for details. It's usually the broad and obfuscated party line that gets repeated over and over on the news. "But, we don't know what's in them!" Yes, we do.

Anyone who doesn't can read this. It's the results of a 5 year medical study of several thousand vapers, including their numbers from spectrograph analysis of the vapor.
http://publichealth.drexel.edu/~/media/files/publichealth/ms08.pdf

Peering through the mist: What does the chemistry of contaminants in electronic cigarettes tell us about health risks?

Igor Burstyn, PhD
Department of Environmental and Occupational Health School of Public Health Drexel University 1505 Race St., Mail Stop #1034 Philadelphia, PA 19102
USA Tel: 215.762.2909 | Fax: 215.762.8846
igor.burstyn@drexel.edu

 

[Mikepresjr]

You need to understand that right now we are on the eve of FDA deeming regulations, and every special interest group out there is trying to stake out their territory. So there is more misinformation floating around than you can shake a stick at, and it's no wonder that folks (health care providers included) are a little confused right now.

There have actually been quite a few peer reviewed published studies (all of them positive), but it is easy for them to get lost in all the media hype.

I reallllyyy like the first part of your post, it serves as an example for a lot of policies around here. Can I quote it in my signature?

 

[ellupodilangelo]

Here's my two cents on this... Lets face it.. neither smoking or vaping is healthy. The lungs are meant to inhale one thing and one thing only... fresh air.

However, I was smoking a pack a day before i started vaping and can tell you that if i had to choose one of the two i would definitely stick to vaping.. for the sole purpose that i can small things and taste things better now than before, and can walk up a flight of steps and not be AS out of breath. My blood pressure has gradually lowered as i lowered my nicotine level, therefore if a doctor tells me "vaping isnt good for you." I would respond with "Well do you recommend me to switch back to cigarettes then?" The thing is that no one can really argue one side or the other in a definitive manner until this becomes FDA approved because we dont have the correct "ammo" until it is, if you understand my speaking

---small rant on why i think our argument goes unheard to non-vapers and what i believe needs to happen in order to strengthen our argument------

If the Vaping/e-cigarette industry wants to be considered a food product instead of a tobacco product, I believe that there should be a label on the juices that list all ingredients that were used to produce the juice. i only say this because one of my favorite flavors, Unicorn's Milk, was said to have Titanium Dioxide in it (which is toxic if inhaled in vaporized form and only serves to produce a certain COLOR to the liquid), and although i want to believe it is not true, I have nothing to point to and say "Well it doesnt say it in the ingredients." Or "FDA says your lying" Also it would be nice to know if there is any sugar in the flavoring and how much, as i know many people who want to vape but are diabetic so they dont want to risk it and thus never got into it. This would help strengthen our argument i believe.

TLDR;

Your are not a smoker, though you should be careful and do your research on the juices you use... some may in fact be more unhealthy than others.