Ecigs Vs cigs, diff perspective

[paladinx]

WHen you compare anything to the devil, it will always look great. What I really do not like , is that we are comparing these devices to the modern day devil, cigarettes. The anti-tobacco companies have made the cigarette look as bad as it possibly can, Including stating that cigarettes contain arsenic and other chemicals. The truth is the percentage found is so small that it does not have any real effect on the body, But they state it anyway as a scar tactic.

Anyway my point being, The statistics and everything else about cigarettes are completely magnified in today's anti cigarette world. That does not mean cigarettes wont kill you, or are harmless. They can kill, but they are being magnified. So with this magnified devil, it is very easy to make E-cigs look great just by stating all the things e-cigarettes do not contain that cigarettes do. To me that is a cheap way of pushing a product.

Instead of comparing ecigs to cigarettes just by dismissing chemicals that are not in ecigs, we should compare ecigs to the realistic harms of smoking cigarettes. Meaning that most smokers develop medical problems after an abundance of use. 30 to 40 cigs a day for many decades. I would say on average 20 to 40 years. THAT is A LOT of consumption. That means realistically, cigarettes are a very slow killer. They are not as lethal and deadly as it is made to be. The cigarettes are not killing you, it is the addiction to them that kills. Same way if i ate 30 to 40 blocks of cheese everyday because i was addicted to cheese, i probably would die sooner from clogged arties than from cigarette smoke.

What would be the effects on the human body after vaping for 20 years steady? No one has a clue. Perhaps it wont give you lung cancer, but it will destroy your kidneys or liver in only 10 years. No one knows for sure.

But any problems we do see now, The very short term problems people complain about. All we really can say is PG allergy, a billion times. That line is also getting very old on this forum. That line is getting very old. And it contradicts everything. If SO many people here are allergic to PG, why are they not getting allergic reactions to all the other things they use which contain PG in them? Tons of products have PG, So if it truly is a PG allergy, than the difference would be in the way we consume the chemical. Which should open a lot of light bulbs in peoples head if consumption of it makes that much of a difference.

regards, sorry for the rant, Just another perspective.

 

[MickiO]

Whatever it takes to get from excessive bad habits, and take control over an addiction and move towards better health, and well-being.

And since more people are switching to e-cigs, as a means to try and take the reins back over their lives, more will come to ECF, to celebrate, to ask questions, to learn more, and find support from others, and although it may seem to say repetitive things, like allergies and pg, if you're reading posts everyday for hours, but how else will anyone know that there is an alternative to PG, called VG, they can try, if they don't tell anyone about it.

Some might have given up and returned to analogs, and get much worse conditions later in life than e-cigs may ever bring.

Sure we don't know all there is to know, but do we really know all there is to know about anything? If you search the internet on one topic for any real length of time, you'll soon discover that some dr's say this is good, this best, and others will say, no it isn't, it is bad, or may cause this or that. It'll take you in circles.

And if you listen and follows everything you hear concerning things in life, it won't be long before you be totally confused and overwhelmed with all the info. It's simply too much for one mine to hold.

I think ECF is a great website, and use it frequently, and have even made some great friends here. However, if little things like these you mention are bothering you this much, maybe you just need a break,

I know myself, if I'm looking to deeply into something, or dwelling too much on one thing, before long, I get irritated, frustrated and totally confused. Sometimes, you gotta just click "shut down" and turn and walk away, and re-group. Then come back when your mind is fresh and patience are at their peak.


It's not just the comparing things to a devil, like you're saying, that makes other things seem better, or even great in comparison. Anything magnified can become a devil, and ruin your day, if you let it.

For many, e-cigs are saving lives, mine included.

But I believe anything done in excess ,can equally be just as destructive, whether that's smoking, drinking, eating, serfing the Internet, being lazy, procrastinating, shopping, etc etc, you name it, if done in excess, it can become a "devil"=)

If one looks too closely at something they fear, they will stay right where they are, and continue doing what they are doing, even if that something may bring them a new life, and good health, They will choose the familiar and the comfortable first, even knowing that what they're doing may eventually kill them, It takes courage to step out....

Fear can be a dangerous thing, my friend, and, can keep a person bound, as prisoner, But, it can also be a good to fear, because it can actually push a boring, fearful, miserable & depressed/lonely person into stepping out into the unknown and finding a new, an exciting & wonderful new life!!

There's two sides to everything, If I thought about e-cigs and what I don't know about them long enough like you're saying, I'd be too afraid to use them and light up an analog say forget it.

Life's to short for that kind of thinking bro, gotta think outside the box once in awhile

peace

 

[paladinx]

well stated, Cant argue with any of your points. I thought I was thinking outside the box with my different kind of perspective, but you are right about the fear thing. Why do something that is KNOWN to kill you, and avoid something that only MIGHT.

I mean I dont mean to write this post to put a thorn in peoples side, or be negative. I was just trying to look at the picture objectively when talking about healthy or safety concerns. For all i know e-cigs can be 99.8 percent safer than cigarettes. It appears most believe that. But on the flip side, No one truly knows for sure. So I guess i was implying that people should use these devices as a quit smoking tool rather than a new habit?

 

[jj2]

I think paladnix is a bit like me sometimes. I get a thought in my head, and even if I don't take it seriously, I just throw it out there to get other's opinion.
Sometimes it can raise a rukcus though.

 

[breakfastchef]

The cigarettes are not killing you, it is the addiction to them that kills. Same way if i ate 30 to 40 blocks of cheese everyday because i was addicted to cheese, i probably would die sooner from clogged arties than from cigarette smoke.

I have to call you out on the above statement that cigarettes are not killing you. They are, in fact, a significant contributor to cancer, emphysema, heart problems, and a multitude of other health-related issues.

That said, you basic premise is that we do not know what the long-term effects of vaping are on individuals. I would agree with that. In the short term, vaping would appear on the surface to substantially reduce the harm tobacco smokers do to themselves as backed up by several public health groups.

In an ideal situation, we would use vaping as a bridge between tobacco use and being tobacco-free. I am trying to set myself on this track as vaping is getting expensive as it becomes as much a hobby as a new habit.

 

[MickiO]

x
I mean I dont mean to write this post to put a thorn in peoples side, or be negative. I was just trying to look at the picture objectively when talking about healthy or safety concerns. For all i know e-cigs can be 99.8 percent safer than cigarettes. It appears most believe that. But on the flip side, No one truly knows for sure. So I guess i was implying that people should use these devices as a quit smoking tool rather than a new habit?

I know you have a the best intentions, I see it in your posts,


I totally agree with you, for some, e-cigs may be a new habit, but atleast we're stepping out onto the water by trying. It's fear of the unknown, that stops some from trying. there may be lion outside, While it's true, some may become just exchange one habit for another, but atleast this option, nicotine can be eliminated if one chooses. Can't do that with tobacco, I've read posts from some who quit smoking by switching to e-cigs and after some time of gradually decreasing use, and then easily quit e-cigs altogether and view it as a HUGE victory.






ANything in excess can become your enemy, it may seem to be your best friend in the beginning, as many feel leaving tobacco was like loosing a friend. but it's just like anything else you try, It's all a matter of perspective and where your heart is when you do it.




I have MS and am in a wheelchair, for me, MS has been the best thing for me, because it has taught me how to appreciate things more, to celebrate life and not takes things for granted, and infact changed me and made me a better person. Where as someone seeing me in this chair, may feel sorry, and may say to themself, if that were me, having to be in a wheelchair, it would be the end of everything.


For me, it's just the beginning and life is wonderful!!! xIf you would have told me years ago I'd be happy and enjoying life in a wheelchair, i would've taken you for a nut. lol. But you just never know what you can do, unless you're actually experience yourself, first hand.


And e-cigs has heightened my over quality of life and well-being, being able breath deeply, enough so that i can now stand at my kitchen sink and wash dishes, or stoop from my chair to smell the scent of a flower or a pine tree, or enjoy pleasant meal, that i could not taste before I stopped smoking because of MS, all of these and more, means the world to me,


It all depends I think on a person's reason for doing a thing, how it turns out. I could be miserable if I chose, but I refuse to let MS define who I am or make my choices for me.


But I chose life. Same thing when I chose to stop smoking and switch to e-cigs. I chose life. Not just for me, but my focus was on my family and how an early death would affect their lives. That thought pushed me to try e-cigs.


Not anything else. Not because they safer, or this or that. Just that one thought helped me switch.


But I truly believed that I could do, what I had been trying to do for a very long time. I believed e-cigs could help me do, what I couldn't do myself in 31 yrs of trying. And that's quit smoking. And as time goes on, I rely on it less and less, and forget all about my e-cig.


I have cut my nic down to 2mg, and some days, seldom touch it at all. And one day, I will walk away from it too, for the same reason I switched to e-cigs, to begin with,
b/c I choose life.


But the best part of e-cigs for me, is that it has given me a choice, I did not have before, and it's given me a way to take the control back,


And yes, as far as vaping goes, I now have a new habit, and so will alot of others, but it is a good habit, when it is done for the right reasons.


And right things, done for good reasons produce right results.
Good seed, good fertile soil, good/hard work, in the right season makes for a good crop










x

 

[oldlady]

My hat is off to you, MickiO. I agree with you entirely.

Paladinix is correct to point out that the negative information about cigarettes is hyperbole. Approximately, 50 percent of people who smoke their entire lives will die of a smoking-related illness. That means 50 percent will die of something else. Also, at this point, nearly everything is considered smoking related. If a person smoked two cigarettes when they were 18 and died of a heart attack at 62, guess what? He is included in that 50 percent statistic!

Nevertheless, these people all die - eventually, of something. I hate to break it to the ASH crowd, but non-smokers also die - eventually, of something. In fact, non-smokers also die of "smoking-related" illnesses, like heart attacks, strokes, and cancer. And, don't blame it on "second-hand smoke," because that whole area of the literature has been completely discredited (now that the bannings are in place!).

So, the bad news is we will all die--whether we smoke, vape or do nothing. Even people who exercise everyday, never smoke, drink or eat red meat die -eventually, of something.

The question is about living! Like Mickio, I prefer to be able to breathe, to be able to feel comfortable, and not to smell bad to others. This is about how I want to live.

I ordered my first starter kit because I wanted to be able to smoke in my office and in my home. (I rent now.) I had no intention of quitting smoking. For the first week, I did the indoor (vape) outdoor (analog) thing. Then, I noticed analogs taste bad, so I quit using them.

There are several studies that find that using e-cigs is not only less harmful than smoking, but also non-harmful in itself. New Zealand has done one, the NIH in the UK has done one, Ireland's health ministry has done one, and a Professor in Alberta Canada has done one. Now, should we simply trust their findings? No. Certainly more testing, especially of second-hand vapor, from disinterested parties is needed. That is if it is possible to find a disinterested party at this point!

Meanwhile, I have been vaping (pretty much nonstop) for over a month and personally have had no negative side effects. According to the polls etc on this forum, I seem to be in a majority. Now, that certainly does not mean the same will be true for everyone. Perhaps there are negatives we should know about. Perhaps some people are better suited to this than others. But, this is all we know for now.

Unless - or until - a disinterested party produces some scientific evidence that this is worse than smoking, I will continue to do it. This is how I choose to live--at least for now.

Over time, I hope to reduce the nicotine to a low level or perhaps give it up altogether. Who knows?

 

[paladinx]

"I have MS and am in a wheelchair, for me, MS has been the best thing for me, because it has taught me how to appreciate things more, to celebrate life and not takes things for granted, and infact changed me and made me a better person. Where as someone seeing me in this chair, may feel sorry, and may say to themself, if that were me, having to be in a wheelchair, it would be the end of everything."

Mickio, that is the most positive and inspiring thing I have heard in a very long time. You have a great outlook on life and I envy that. I appreciate you sharing your story with me and making some excellent points. I think people can learn a lot of things from you, and I appreciate it..

To the post below. I was being sarcastic when I said cigarettes are not bad for you. What I was trying to convey is that 1 cigarette by itself really isn't that bad for you. Same as one french fry is not that bad for you. But as mikio has stated. Moderation is key. My main point is only that cigarettes are not going to kill you from a few puffs. That it is a very long term killer that does damage after extreme use.

I would say there is a 98 percent chance or higher that you could smoke a pack a day worth of cigarettes for five years and have no serious effects. That is approx. almost 34,000 cigarettes. Most people who get emphysema or other serious conditions smoke ON AVERAGE 30-40 cigarettes for at least 20 years. Again on average. That is about 270,000 cigarettes consumed. So when people talk about the damage cigarettes can do, they are talking about those who smoke 100's of thousands worth of cigarettes. That is my main point. That is ALOT of consumption. And again my point is, if i inhaled vapor at the equivalent of 270,000 cigarettes, what would my body function be like?

Again, it is misleading to just talk about cigarettes as the ultimate killers with tar, arsenic and 2 billion chemicals when it takes so much of it to kill you. Will it take that much vapor to kill me? I think I am asking a very fair question that no one really has an answer for, but the only reason why i bring it up, is just to show a flip side of the coin. I mean its all cool to be gung ho! and cheer on these great inventions. There was a time when everyone was pro cigarettes too, they even had doctors saying how safe and healty cigarettes are. Its just silly to repeat old mistakes.

I will never be 100 percent pro ecigs or say they are positively MUCH safer. This is my stance. "I believe ecigs are not as bad as regular cigarettes as it stands right now. however, I am not sure about the real long term effects, they could prove to be much better or even worse"

and I will get hated on by saying "worse". But again, go back to my example. What do you think will happen to you if you ate 270,000 blocks of cheese, or drank 270,000 worth of alcoholic shots, or took 270,000 pills worth of asprin. If you did most things to that extreme it would kill you. So what is the real killer with cigarettes? is it the cigarette, or is it the extreme to which people abuse it?

 

[voltaire]

What would be the effects on the human body after vaping for 20 years steady? No one has a clue. Perhaps it wont give you lung cancer, but it will destroy your kidneys or liver in only 10 years. No one knows for sure.

But any problems we do see now, The very short term problems people complain about. All we really can say is PG allergy, a billion times. That line is also getting very old on this forum. That line is getting very old. And it contradicts everything. If SO many people here are allergic to PG, why are they not getting allergic reactions to all the other things they use which contain PG in them? Tons of products have PG, So if it truly is a PG allergy, than the difference would be in the way we consume the chemical.

Yes, a lot of products contain PG. In fact, analogs contain both PG and VG, so inhalation of them isn't something new at all.

So, I too am skeptical about most supposed PG alergies, and I wonder if it's due to some other ingredient/contaminant in low-quality PG juice. My wild guess would be that China was the source of juice in the majority of cases of "PG alergies". And my even wilder guess is that the guilty contaminant was low levels of diethylene glycol, which EVERYBODY is "alergic" to since it's toxic, though some may be more sensitive to it than others.

 

[paladinx]

Thats a very good point. I was starting to have that same suspicion as well. And I will be honest, even though I know I will take heat for it. I don't entirely enjoy the fact that most of the juices come from China. Anyone who does a little research will see China has more quality and control issues than most.

If it really is the PG. Than it must be the amount of PG. I am assuming there is very little in cigarettes and other products. The juice on the other hand I would assume has way more PG. But I still would be hesitant to use the word allergy, just because some people are more sensitive to the effects does not mean they are allergic for sure.

 

[spaky]

Well another view could be that before any of us started vaping, how many even knew what PG was? Maybe people have been experiencing allergies to PG before, but always thought that it was just something else. I'm also sure that vaping is getting a lot more PG into people than just normal living and eating. Not all allergies are equal. I know people that have allergies to mold and pollen. These are in the air almost all the time, but the only time they have problems is when their levels are elevated.
It's only after starting vaping that I learned what PG is and I'm sure I'm not the only one. Before it was only one in a list of chemicals that I ingested into my body without ever giving it a thought. Now I definitely would like to see more tests done on what we vape and also to see the long term effects. But for now I know that I have two choices: smoke or vape. I'll choose vaping. If you're that worried about what vaping may do, then maybe go back to analogs and wait for test results to be published.

 

[MadeyeTony]

I find it interesting that this whole "pg allergy" thing has been reported to go away for most users after a week or two. This seems eerily similar (if anyone can still remember it) to the effects of cigarettes when a person first begins to use them. I remember having to force myself to keep smoking back when I started because I would hack and cough every time I inhaled. The body has to adjust to a substance that was never meant by nature or evolution to be consumed by humans.

 

[Madame Psychosis]

If it really is the PG. Than it must be the amount of PG. I am assuming there is very little in cigarettes and other products. The juice on the other hand I would assume has way more PG. But I still would be hesitant to use the word allergy, just because some people are more sensitive to the effects does not mean they are allergic for sure.

Very true. It's actually a misuse of the word "allergy", which bugs me (though I've probably used that word, too). An allergy involves an inflammatory response of one kind or another (hives, swelling of lips or other parts, and at the worst, airway blockage) and not just irritation.
The proper word would probably be "sensitivity" or "intolerance", and you're right, we're not entirely sure if it's PG because we only have lots of anecdotal evidence.

paladinx, to your other point:
You're comparing cigarettes with other substances that are harmful when ingested to the extreme. Yes, there are a lot of things that can hurt us, many of which are perfectly legal.

As you know, the addictiveness of cigarettes is what makes the extreme use far more likely. And yet, junk foods can be addictive (as any compulsive overeater will tell you). And I've seen alcohol addiction do terrible damage to people I know and love.
I've also seen people who can smoke a cigarette on the weekends and never get addicted and seem fine.

But the issue with cheese and alcohol use is that marginal use is not harmful to the body, i.e. it doesn't induce cell damage in the way that a single cigarette will. We already know that moderate wine drinking may have health benefits, for instance. And fat and calories are essential for human life, so one piece of cheese will be used by your body for nutrition and sustenance.

Cigarettes, on the other hand, are always harmful on the margin. One or ten or two thousand, they will still be treated by your body like an irritant and a carcinogen. Just because you can't see or feel the damage doesn't mean it isn't there. (Can you feel your pancreas working? No, but it's awfully important. Can you feel a lifelong minor heart valve defect that might make you drop dead at age 50 during a jog?)

All told, though, my philosophy is "whatever gets you through the day", including harms and so-called vices. Nobody else can make that calculation for you.

MickiO, your story's truly an inspiration.

 

[paladinx]

Very good post madame. Its hard to argue your point, or play devils advocate with you. But I will try.

Your example of alcohol is a good point. Alcohol is a poison when you really think about it. Its something toxic to the body, that is exactly the reason why we get drunk. Even though alcohol is toxic, And our bodies are treating it as such when we drink, moderate amounts are not really that bad for us. Our body can dispose of it with moderate use that does not cause much concern.
I believe the same thing is probably true for cigarettes. That is just my own personal opinion. Just like alcohol might have beneficial aspects, so does nicotine, or any other drug. Some say smoking is good for certain diseases, such as parkinsons or ulcerated collitus, anxiety etc. Sure the body is treating a cigarette, or alcohol, or a block of transfats as something bad and disposing of it. Sure you cannot feel the transfats going into your arteries when you eat cheese, or your liver burning up from alcohol, well alcohol is such a strong toxin that you actually do feel it sometimes lol.

But I guess you see my point. One cigarette to me, is not going to do any more damage or cell damange than anything else. To me, it is the abuse of the cigarette that causes the cell damage, the abuse of alcohol that fries the liver, and the abuse of blocks of cheese that will clog the arteries without you knowing it till you drop dead. But again another point is, If i eat tons of cheese and have a heart attack, if I am a smoker. What do you think is going to get the blame in 2009?

regards


"I find it interesting that this whole "pg allergy" thing has been reported to go away for most users after a week or two."

Some are saying its withdrawal symptoms? Could very well be. Not really sure. nothing seems to be that concrete, even the nicotine we are getting from these things.

"If you're that worried about what vaping may do, then maybe go back to analogs and wait for test results to be published. "

Its not that I am that worried. I am just sharing another way to look at it. I do not see many people looking at it the way I do. Which makes sense. No one likes negativity when they are doing something they see as their new salvation etc. I just appreciate that no one got very hostile with me. I know sometimes people on forums kind of gang up on you if you go against the grain. I am not knocking these devices anyway. Im just trying to show a different perspective that I think we all should have anyway. Bottom line is, no matter how logical we think things are with the e-cig. We truly do not know a lot of answers to even the most basic questions. Such as how much nicotine people are getting from these things. Or exactly what is in it. Unless you fully trust 100 percent whats written on the bottle. People have to take into consideration that there is a chance someone could even get a bottle of pure nicotine by mistake due to quality control. Pure nicotine is deadly and wont take 20 years to kill you.

 

[W Axl Rose]

IF there were ANY evidence that inhalation, long term or otherwise, of PG were harmful, doesn't anyone find it odd that the FDA isn't hopping up and down and using that as an excuse to shut down the e cig industry? That would make it so very easy for them, wouldn't it? I'm GUESSING the FDA hasn't said much about PG because it is in many inhalents that have FDA approval. THey can't very well call it dangerous at this point, can they? I'm guessing it would not be used as a delivery system for asthma inhalents if it were bad. Asthmatics have been using it several times a day for years, have they not? (seriously, correct me if i am wrong). Is there even ONE recorded health problem as a result of this? Just curious.

 

[john doe]

I see switching from analogs to e-cigs to be like hoarding. If you've ever seen the show they'll go into a hoarders house and it will be packed with all sorts of junk ,trash, rotting stuff. they don't try to completely eliminate the hoarding. First is to get rid of all the nasty stuff, then the useless stuff, then the redundant stuff and then organize the rest of the stuff. Going from analogs to e-cigs is like going from all the useless, worthless stuff(the additives). To e-cigs, where it may not be orderly but at least you can see everything left.

 

[paladinx]

LOl, good point john.

Axl. good point as well. I guess the FDA does not really know one way or the other what the effects of PG are when vaporized and inhaled abundantly throughout the day. They cant say its safe, nor can they say it is harmful, how could they? And your right, even if they knew or found out something harmful about PG, that would make them look the fools. Unless they say there is a difference between their "approved" ways of using it, and how we use it when we vape. Maybe factors are purity, amount of it, or heated vs unheated etc. Who knows. I dont know. PG sounds better to me than tar.

Either way, would be really nice if the liquid we use was regulated by some agency that has our best interests in mind. Doubt thats really the FDA 100 percent. and everyone in todays age is dieing from cancer. Smokers and non smokers a like. We can't even blame smoking for the staggering cancer rates now a days. I wonder how many FDA approved chemicals we use daily might be contributors to this cancer epidemic.

 

[W Axl Rose]

My thought is that any ingredient in medications, inactive or otherwise are usually pretty rigourously tested before they are allowed on the market for use. People with compromised lungs/breathing use asthma products...you see where I am going with this thought process. Of course anyone can react to anything, doesn't mean it is necessarily dangerous.
Also, PG is in analogs, so we've BEEN inhaling it heated for years, several times a day. I really hope it is not harmful, obviously, as e-cigs have been allowed me to be smoke free for over two months.
The FDA can say whatever they want, they always have. I don't trust their methods or their motives where e-cigs are concerned. Analogs are FDA approved after all, right? How can they even justify that? (follow the money, perhaps??) Why on earth are there so many additives in analogs anyway?)
As far as cancer goes...you are right, it is common. About as common as old age. I think old age is the #1 contributing factor to cancer. People live longer now, so of course we are going to see more cancer. Some die of it young, but it is more common in the older population. Our bodies do have the ability to fight off cancer to a degree, maybe chemicals, etc have compromised our immune system's ability to fight it off.
Just a few random thoughts

 

[paladinx]

Well for one the fda never approved cigarettes. That to me is the problem. They were left unchecked, and uninspected for so many years. The tobacco companies had absolute power to manufacture and do whatever they wanted to do with their products. No one was enforcing any quality control or anything else on them for that matter. Kind of ironic since people are ingesting them. They should be regulated.

About PG. that is true. I heard it was in cigarettes too. But I wonder how much is really in cigarettes. Probably a very small amount anyway. The liquid we use is mostly made of pg. PG for all i know could be as harmless as water. Or maybe it does have some kind of an effect the way we used it after many years. Who knows. After all it is a chemical.

I kind of disagree with the cancer thing. There are so many children and young people getting cancer its crazy. I honestly think the cancer rates have been on the rise ever since industrialization in all age groups. A guy i know, whos 29 just died from cancer, and I know many others who are also young in their 30's and 40s with cancer. And it seems like cancer is more widespread in countries or areas with the most industrialized setting. Where I live the air pollution is terrible, and we have one of the highest cancer rates in the country. My personal opinion is that cancer is being caused from all the luxuries we get. That includes all the products and the foods we eat. They do a lot of crap to expand storage life on foods and make extra money. From genetic engineering of vegtables and meats to a host of chemical preservatives. Even all the diet xxxx people consume is terrible for you. God only knows what triggers genetic mutations, but im sure it could be from a whole host of things we consume and use daily. One day we will find out just like we did about lead paint and other stuff that had to be changed. till the next disease or plague hits us heh.

sorry to babble.

happy holidays everyone.

 

[W Axl Rose]

I find your 'babble' interesting and you do indeed have a different perspective on things. I am glad you choose to share it.

Cigs aren't FDA approved??? Really? Are you sure? Then why do they have to provide and ingredient list, etc? I'm going to have to google that one. I just always assumed they were FDA approved since they are out there and are a drug delivery system. Sheesh. I need to get my facts straight!

You have a good point about not knowing the effects of PG if used chronically for many years. Guess what else...we WON'T know. There don't seem to be any long term studies and even if one was started now, we would not know the results for a decade or two. Ecigs, for me, are a middleman to go from smoking analogs to being habit free. I've given myself a timeline for that. Of course, if after more testing, ecigs are found to be relatively safe and continue to be available, I would like to keep using them. I do feel I CAN put these down as I can go a long time between vaping sessions, which just wasn't an option for me with analogs. I don't understand why there needs to be pg or vg in ecig juice. I would give up the pretty vapor in a heartbeat as long as I got a little bit of flavor and a little throat hit and a little nicotine. Why can't they just use water?

Is cancer actually on the rise or is it being more diagnosed? Remember, we have much better tools for diagnosing such things these days. Finding cancer has become much more of an exact science, as has the treatment. As far as it being more prominent in industrial contries...well, again, more diagnosed. Not alot of cancer diagnosis going on in the Congo or ethiopia or Laos...People just die and get buried.

I do agree that pollution is a contributor to cancer. That seems to be fact. As well as the other things you mentioned; gentic engineering of plants, food additives, etc. Which begs the question, with all of these REAL problems in the world, why is the FDA so fixatied on ecigs??