Why would they be proud of that? At the moment it's the laughing stock of the interwebz.
It should say "Fighting for our right to increase prices"
Ecta
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Why would they be proud of that? At the moment it's the laughing stock of the interwebz.
It should say "Fighting for our right to increase prices"
People: ECTA has jack squat to do with enabling anyone to increase prices. Any vendor, today, regardless of ECTA membership or lack thereof, is free to lower or raise their prices as they see fit...at any time. Today! And no one's forcing vapers to shop with any particular vendor. shop wherever you like.
What we should all try to understand is that the situation in Canada over the last few years has been very costly to our vendors. Customs seizures alone have cost them a fortune. That is one part of why prices are usually higher here.
Yes, we all know that HC has been obtuse towards the industry for a long time...but in the same breath, the industry hasn't been proactively compliant with anything either. Which is a big problem! Because every vendor is required by law to be regulated in some capacity. It's like ECTA's website says: "Canada's Electronic Cigarette Industry – like so many others around the world – has operated under a "Wild West" principle for far too long. This is largely because of regulatory uncertainty as policy-makers try to work out what type of products ecigs are. Canadians deserve better."
The question then becomes "how will the industry be regulated?" We've all seen how ECITA has successfully pursued appropriate regulation in the UK, which doesn't leave vapers or vendors in the cold. Which doesn't embrace thinly-veiled prohibitive misclassifications.
ECTA wants the same thing here. Its members want to professionally & effectively stop the nonsense from the govt...& provide their customers with the accuracy & safety that they deserve. They're all competitors with each other. But legal research costs money. Regularly scheduled testing costs money. Professional representation with the govt costs money. Coming together in a trade association lowers those costs for everyone involved.
Getting back to the original point about prices in Canada...this is just one of many reasons why ECTA's existence is a good thing. As it succeeds in getting the government to recognize & accept appropriate regulation (based on existing law)...it will mean compliant vendors won't be losing their shirts to Customs seizures. Which will likely mean lower prices in Canada in due course, not higher ones.
To back this up, I would advise everyone here to look to the example of ECITA in the UK (which ECTA is following). ECITA's work did not lead to higher prices for vapers. People there can buy all the same products as before...vape the same nic strengths as before, etc...at prices that are equal to (or less than) before. The only difference to the consumer is that when they shop with an ECITA vendor, they know that everything sold by that vendor is regularly tested for accuracy & safety.
As a vaper, that's something I'd like to have here when I'm choosing where to shop. Wouldn't you? So let's all please step back & be thoughtful here. No one's forcing you to shop anywhere, or forcing vendors to join ECTA (and membership availability will be opened up to the entire industry ASAP). No one's forcing anyone to do anything. When someone opposes ECTA...they're really opposing better choices for consumers.
Hope you all have a great day. Happy vaping & vape proud!
What we should all try to understand is that the situation in Canada over the last few years has been very costly to our vendors. Customs seizures alone have cost them a fortune. That is one part of why prices are usually higher here.
Yes, we all know that HC has been obtuse towards the industry for a long time...but in the same breath, the industry hasn't been proactively compliant with anything either. Which is a big problem! Because every vendor is required by law to be regulated in some capacity. It's like ECTA's website says: "Canada's Electronic Cigarette Industry – like so many others around the world – has operated under a "Wild West" principle for far too long. This is largely because of regulatory uncertainty as policy-makers try to work out what type of products ecigs are. Canadians deserve better."
The question then becomes "how will the industry be regulated?" We've all seen how ECITA has successfully pursued appropriate regulation in the UK, which doesn't leave vapers or vendors in the cold. Which doesn't embrace thinly-veiled prohibitive misclassifications.
ECTA wants the same thing here. Its members want to professionally & effectively stop the nonsense from the govt...& provide their customers with the accuracy & safety that they deserve. They're all competitors with each other. But legal research costs money. Regularly scheduled testing costs money. Professional representation with the govt costs money. Coming together in a trade association lowers those costs for everyone involved.
Getting back to the original point about prices in Canada...this is just one of many reasons why ECTA's existence is a good thing. As it succeeds in getting the government to recognize & accept appropriate regulation (based on existing law)...it will mean compliant vendors won't be losing their shirts to Customs seizures. Which will likely mean lower prices in Canada in due course, not higher ones.
To back this up, I would advise everyone here to look to the example of ECITA in the UK (which ECTA is following). ECITA's work did not lead to higher prices for vapers. People there can buy all the same products as before...vape the same nic strengths as before, etc...at prices that are equal to (or less than) before. The only difference to the consumer is that when they shop with an ECITA vendor, they know that everything sold by that vendor is regularly tested for accuracy & safety.
As a vaper, that's something I'd like to have here when I'm choosing where to shop. Wouldn't you? So let's all please step back & be thoughtful here. No one's forcing you to shop anywhere, or forcing vendors to join ECTA (and membership availability will be opened up to the entire industry ASAP). No one's forcing anyone to do anything. When someone opposes ECTA...they're really opposing better choices for consumers.
Hope you all have a great day. Happy vaping & vape proud!
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God, you sound like a bad public service announcement. We already know ECTA is for the vendors, not the consumers, Katherine made that very clear. I don't even oppose the idea of ECTA, I oppose the outright lies by certain members to gain ground for their own business, and the bullying and scare tactics they use.
I now have a contact within ECTA that is fair, unbiased, and willing to answer any questions we have. Please direct any questions to me and I will forward them on for a real, honest answer that is devoid of harassment.
I now have a contact within ECTA that is fair, unbiased, and willing to answer any questions we have. Please direct any questions to me and I will forward them on for a real, honest answer that is devoid of harassment.
Can you elaborate on the lies, bullying and scare tactics that are in use from these vendors, please? I guess I'm in the dark. Thanks!
I can name you one, but that would be more in PM then anything else
~edit: rut roh: trying to multi-task with too many ECF windows open and the rest of this message was posted in the wrong thread~
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I'd like to know as well... have been following these threads and keep reading all kinds of accusations, but have yet to hear one single concrete example.
This is your opinion and you are entitled to it. I know a lot of people from the UK that are against the ECITA including various respectable (and reasonably priced) vendors. Strange how the reasonably priced vendors are always the ones with ECITA/ECTA issues, but the ones that over charge are all for it?
I haven't come across any concrete examples either. So far, any accusation like this that has been questioned for clarity has been answered with vague comments. My observations have led me to narrow it down to one of the following:
1) There is a gross misunderstanding of "bullying".
2) Bullying did happen behind the scenes and it's being dealt with in a vague, passive-aggressive fashion that doesn't solve anything.
3) Vendor(s?) are complaining to the dedicated consumer in a misinformed and unprofessional manner.
Either way it's happening, I would like to see a real, specific example of the accusations and then see how it gets dealt with. That will show some true colours on everyone's part. Vagueness isn't going to accomplish clarification on these complaints.
@rachelcoffe: +1 to your clearly articulated comments.
rachelcoffe, thanks for your comments. They were very helpful and encouraging. Please elaborate a little further:
The regulation of services and the halt of customs seizures sounds good to me. Once that's been done and the seizures have been stopped (eliminating high expenses) by what anticipated percentage will the ECTA members be lowering their prices?
Compliance is a big issue with many industries these days, especially in light of the recent (and perhaps ongoing) financial crisis. We all have to do our part. Wild West attitudes can't be allowed to prevail. Which legislation have the members of ECTA so far been out of compliance on, and how can the community help?
Determining the future of a regulatory environment is of course a concern to everyone. What does ECTA envision that this environment should look like, and what does it envision its position to be within this environment?
In the future ECTA members wish to provide the security and accuracy that their customers deserve. Are we to infer from that that the current ECTA membership is unable to provide that safety to its current customer base? In what way is the current membership base at risk from the ECTA members and their products and how can we help to lessen the degree of risk for everyone?
With ECITA as a guiding example for everyone for everyone can we now say that all vendors in the UK are ECITA members? What is required to be granted member status in ECITA and to be an approved vendor? Since ECTA is patterning itself after ECITA the guiding principles and requirements should be notionally the same, with some minor adjustments for legislative and regulatory process. Could you share these guiding principles please? What are the penalties for not being an ECITA approved vendor in the UK?
I'm all for choices! Choices are a good thing. Please explain what new choices not currently available will be available in the regulated environment proposed by ECTA members.
Thanks very much in advance, in anticipation of your thoughtful response and in the impending good news for the vaping community. Can't wait to hear about it.
The regulation of services and the halt of customs seizures sounds good to me. Once that's been done and the seizures have been stopped (eliminating high expenses) by what anticipated percentage will the ECTA members be lowering their prices?
Compliance is a big issue with many industries these days, especially in light of the recent (and perhaps ongoing) financial crisis. We all have to do our part. Wild West attitudes can't be allowed to prevail. Which legislation have the members of ECTA so far been out of compliance on, and how can the community help?
Determining the future of a regulatory environment is of course a concern to everyone. What does ECTA envision that this environment should look like, and what does it envision its position to be within this environment?
In the future ECTA members wish to provide the security and accuracy that their customers deserve. Are we to infer from that that the current ECTA membership is unable to provide that safety to its current customer base? In what way is the current membership base at risk from the ECTA members and their products and how can we help to lessen the degree of risk for everyone?
With ECITA as a guiding example for everyone for everyone can we now say that all vendors in the UK are ECITA members? What is required to be granted member status in ECITA and to be an approved vendor? Since ECTA is patterning itself after ECITA the guiding principles and requirements should be notionally the same, with some minor adjustments for legislative and regulatory process. Could you share these guiding principles please? What are the penalties for not being an ECITA approved vendor in the UK?
I'm all for choices! Choices are a good thing. Please explain what new choices not currently available will be available in the regulated environment proposed by ECTA members.
Thanks very much in advance, in anticipation of your thoughtful response and in the impending good news for the vaping community. Can't wait to hear about it.
I'm going to assume that the reason there are no concrete examples is because it will open up a can of worms that's probably already been hashed out here, on Facebook and through PMs, without any solution. It just goes round and round and tempers ensue.
Despite this, yes it's pretty frustrating to not have anything tangible to grasp onto when being newly introduced to the issues. It would be great to have a non-biased third party sit down at a round table and sort the problems out once and for all
. Everyone involved needs to take some responsibility for whatever it is that's caused anger and defensiveness.
Some good arguments are being raised on both sides. The many issues here are difficult, no doubt, but this much is now clear to me. At this time, like it or not, ECTA appear to be the only game in town that even remotely resembles an organized effort to preserve our right to smoking alternatives in Canada. Until consumer advocacy/protection groups similar to the ECCA in the UK and CASAA in the U.S. are developed here in Canada, the playing field will not be ideally balanced as between industry and consumer interests. However, the absence of both such groups could ultimately prove far worse for us all. I do see that.
I support those common fundamental principles ECTA is promoting that also benefit the customers of their membership. I mean...at this point....who else is going to do it? Does anyone know of a millionaire vaper who can spare the resources and has the inclination/capability to organize a Canadian consumer group? Please provide him with a link to this thread if you do. I'll volunteer to fill his cartos.
However, because the 'ECTA got there first' does not necessarily give them the right to make up the rules as to how the game is played, with impunity. Their responsibility runs far deeper than that and I hope they see that (now?). I don't feel it now really matters who said what to whom to piss them off. The fact that ECTA seem to have alienated and enraged a number of forum members means they're doing something wrong; at the very least it means they're not properly managing the fallout of their actions (or lack thereof) and the perceptions this creates.
If ECTA are going to cite ECITA as their foundation, it must appear obvious to them that ECITA's most recent and valuable successes have come only after massive public support was demonstrated.
Yes ECTA, we 'want you on that wall' and we 'need you on that wall.' But you will need us too. Just remember what happened to Jack in the end
I support those common fundamental principles ECTA is promoting that also benefit the customers of their membership. I mean...at this point....who else is going to do it? Does anyone know of a millionaire vaper who can spare the resources and has the inclination/capability to organize a Canadian consumer group? Please provide him with a link to this thread if you do. I'll volunteer to fill his cartos.
However, because the 'ECTA got there first' does not necessarily give them the right to make up the rules as to how the game is played, with impunity. Their responsibility runs far deeper than that and I hope they see that (now?). I don't feel it now really matters who said what to whom to piss them off. The fact that ECTA seem to have alienated and enraged a number of forum members means they're doing something wrong; at the very least it means they're not properly managing the fallout of their actions (or lack thereof) and the perceptions this creates.
If ECTA are going to cite ECITA as their foundation, it must appear obvious to them that ECITA's most recent and valuable successes have come only after massive public support was demonstrated.
Yes ECTA, we 'want you on that wall' and we 'need you on that wall.' But you will need us too. Just remember what happened to Jack in the end
The higher prices that ecta members have is a result of greed, nothing more. It's obvious when you look at other vendors in Canada, or look at wholesale prices for hardware and eliquid making supplies. Are we to believe that customs has been taking shipments more from ecta members than other Canadian vendors? Saying they are charging more to pay for ecta is convenient, but come on, these people have been grossly overcharging for a long time. The disturbing thing is that it this appears to be true for the entire ecta membership. Is it any surprise that people are getting upset that these vendors are going to be making policy that will affect everyone Canada?
As the spokeswoman said, ECTA is for the ecta members. You can see it in how their website looks like a advertisement for them. "The Industry Standard of Excellence," oh boy, we better shop with these guys.
Something that actually bothers me though, is what are they going to lobby for when it comes to customs. If they really open up the borders, it will hurt them. Nobody would shop with any of them if they could order from China or the US. So this makes me think they will lobby for a crack down on shipments, and try to make it so only they can import ecig related stuff. China and America is unregulated after all. This is disturbing, and would hurt Canadians, and non ecta vendors. It seems plausible to me. Does ECTA have any other plans that would help them, but hurt us?
What it is really going on with Juicy Clear aka "Waiting for approval of disclosure." This company has been "shut down" twice. Both times they reaped the benefits of a going out of business sale. They are still here, still wholesaling their very expensive juice all over Canada.
As the spokeswoman said, ECTA is for the ecta members. You can see it in how their website looks like a advertisement for them. "The Industry Standard of Excellence," oh boy, we better shop with these guys.
Something that actually bothers me though, is what are they going to lobby for when it comes to customs. If they really open up the borders, it will hurt them. Nobody would shop with any of them if they could order from China or the US. So this makes me think they will lobby for a crack down on shipments, and try to make it so only they can import ecig related stuff. China and America is unregulated after all. This is disturbing, and would hurt Canadians, and non ecta vendors. It seems plausible to me. Does ECTA have any other plans that would help them, but hurt us?
What it is really going on with Juicy Clear aka "Waiting for approval of disclosure." This company has been "shut down" twice. Both times they reaped the benefits of a going out of business sale. They are still here, still wholesaling their very expensive juice all over Canada.
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I just realized they were back in business. WTF???? What a bunch of BS!! Ahhh well ...... just another over priced juice to avoid.
Thank YOU for finally bringing some very interesting and valid questions to the discussion. If I can provide any further information, or answers, I shall be more than happy to do so.
Happy vaping, one and all!
Cheers,
Katherine
Ok I'm not in a position at this point to comment on the nitty gritty of the ECTA mandate as far as regulating and therefore promoting a safe industry that HC will have more difficulty shooting down (I think that's it right?).
However on the issue of over charging, which is really creating a great deal of distrust, the question is much more about the membership of ECTA than the goal of "industry regulation".
Huge distrust. I can understand, from that point of vew, that this remains a big bone of contention that won't be solved unless it changes, regardless of anything the ECTA could contribute positively to the Cdn. ecig business.
On a side note, I've purchased a product I like from an overpriced ECTA member before I new they were a member, and so a new question I have to ask myself is whether I ever order from that vendor again. I don't know what this member has done, besides overcharging, since I'm ignorant of previous interactions. Not a big deal in the scheme of things but something I now need to consider...
However on the issue of over charging, which is really creating a great deal of distrust, the question is much more about the membership of ECTA than the goal of "industry regulation".
Huge distrust. I can understand, from that point of vew, that this remains a big bone of contention that won't be solved unless it changes, regardless of anything the ECTA could contribute positively to the Cdn. ecig business.
On a side note, I've purchased a product I like from an overpriced ECTA member before I new they were a member, and so a new question I have to ask myself is whether I ever order from that vendor again. I don't know what this member has done, besides overcharging, since I'm ignorant of previous interactions. Not a big deal in the scheme of things but something I now need to consider...
Good or bad, self appointed or voted it, creating higher prices or lowering them, sending out the evil dust bunny to clog up the pv's of those ECFers opposed or not....
talion, thank you and the rest of the ECTA for testing products and taking actions so as products are safe thus for for consumer use. Lord knows i am one to just buy what i think looks nice or what i think will taste nice and through caution to the wind not taking time to read about it....
If y'all are doing that already then i tip my hat off to you and again say thank you
talion, thank you and the rest of the ECTA for testing products and taking actions so as products are safe thus for for consumer use. Lord knows i am one to just buy what i think looks nice or what i think will taste nice and through caution to the wind not taking time to read about it....
If y'all are doing that already then i tip my hat off to you and again say thank you
For everyone who thinks they need to be in the know on exactly what these "accusations" are about, there is a search function I suggest you use. There are many threads on the topic of ECTA that I suggest you read to get an idea of exactly what has occurred up to this point. I cannot divulge content of private messages as it is against the rules. I do not wish to get moderators involved at this point because I'm a big girl and I don't need them to drop the ban hammer on someone for me or others to know that they're not very nice people.
There is one member vendor in particular whose reputation on these forums is less than zero. This person has been known to incite arguments, insult folks for having a differing opinion, veil comments in such a way that they insult certain people or groups, PM forum members to reply to posts that due to the rules they aren't allowed, as a supplier, to reply to, and hating on other vendors in open forum (against the supplier rules). This person also hates on every fan of one particular vendor, whether out of jealousy, depression, psychopathy, or what, I do not know. This member has been put in the penalty box several times here, if that gives you any indication. There is also another member vendor who as recently as yesterday (IIRC) called everyone in the thread fools. The proof is in the pudding. This is not the way humans should act, let alone a group trying to garner the support of the people.
And I close with this: just because you aren't in the know doesn't make it untrue. I know the exact definition of bullying and I am not, nor have I ever been, one to make wild claims or accusations. I speak from my own experiences and interpretations only. I cannot speak for anyone else.
There is one member vendor in particular whose reputation on these forums is less than zero. This person has been known to incite arguments, insult folks for having a differing opinion, veil comments in such a way that they insult certain people or groups, PM forum members to reply to posts that due to the rules they aren't allowed, as a supplier, to reply to, and hating on other vendors in open forum (against the supplier rules). This person also hates on every fan of one particular vendor, whether out of jealousy, depression, psychopathy, or what, I do not know. This member has been put in the penalty box several times here, if that gives you any indication. There is also another member vendor who as recently as yesterday (IIRC) called everyone in the thread fools. The proof is in the pudding. This is not the way humans should act, let alone a group trying to garner the support of the people.
And I close with this: just because you aren't in the know doesn't make it untrue. I know the exact definition of bullying and I am not, nor have I ever been, one to make wild claims or accusations. I speak from my own experiences and interpretations only. I cannot speak for anyone else.
Katherine, thanks for answering the questions. Some good information in there, some of which makes sense and some of which doesn’t track given earlier statements.
The good:
First off, there is a compelling case for setting standards for e-juice quality. It seems very obvious to me that it’s in everybody’s interest to make sure that there’s a minimum level of quality, and properly labelled products, to protect public safety. That’s a no-brainer.
Secondly, it makes perfect sense to have a group of industry savvy individuals navigate through what I’m sure is a quagmire of legal issues that will likely take years to resolve. It’s also obvious that there would be a cost in time and dollars in order to do this, and that having done so it will protect the industry as a whole and ensure its survival.
Getting agreement to proper classification of the products also seems beneficial to all.
You have helped outline some of the jurisdictional issues and document issues. Thanks.
The bad:
You have alluded to regulatory bodies, enforcement bodies, and policy makers, but you have not indicated to what, if any, degree they have expressed interest in participating in the process you’ve outlined, and if you have been in contact with them what their directives are. The obstacles to fruition should be outlined as well, at least in a general sense. You have mentioned statutes, but while I understand you wouldn’t want to frame legal arguments openly bringing up the major issues and stumbling blocks shouldn’t be a problem. Experts within the community who may have experience with the pertinent issues may bring knowledge and experience in those areas forward and at little or no cost. You do yourselves a disservice by not exploring this option, in the interest of reducing overall costs. There may be customs/legal/government/logistics experts here that could help.
What incentive is there for a seller to join ECTA? Aside from being able to add a small voice to the process (at a not insignificant cost I would imagine) what will set the non-member apart from the member? In a community this small word of mouth from regular users, price, and perceived product will probably count for more than the affiliate sticker. It would add only a little cachet, much like having a BBB membership does now. Ultimately if all have to follow the same laws the benefit to belonging to ECTA would seem to be unclear. Anon-ECTA member is not necessarily a non-compliant vendor. What is the value proposition to the new ECTA member once the main mandate has been achieved?
The response regarding choices indicates that consumers shouldn’t expect more choices, just better informed choices. Since the people buying these products (internet based, mostly) rely on internet information then they rely on each other for information anyway. They self-inform as a community. It’s unlikely that they will be better informed, since the sources for information won’t change too much. With that being said, it does make the less informed safer, and that can’t help but be a good thing.
The ugly:
There is an inconsistency in presentation here. Rachel has pointed out that prices are at a high level in large part because customs seizures have affected overhead. While I understand that ECTA won’t (and shouldn’t) get involved in pricing your response to the question of reduction in pricing should the problem disappear highlights that the consumer fears are largely true. Just because the overhead cost goes away the members of ECTA are not committing to passing any of that savings back to purchasing consumers. Those who cry about “lining pockets” have just reason to think so. Of course, dealers may vary. The message is inconsistent though and you should probably fix that.
You make a strong argument not to buy products from Canadian sellers. Since you have quite reasonably pointed out the dangers of buying from unregulated Canadian sellers the only logical conclusion that a health-conscious vaper can make is to make his/her purchases from regulated vendors abroad, in the UK for instance, until such time as a proper level of testing and security is in place here in Canada. After all, since most sales are internet based and not brick-and-mortar based then there is little reason not to. Shipping must be paid regardless and timing can be adjusted as needed by the consumer. Why should anyone continue to buy from potentially hazardous vendors selling unregulated products?
The good:
First off, there is a compelling case for setting standards for e-juice quality. It seems very obvious to me that it’s in everybody’s interest to make sure that there’s a minimum level of quality, and properly labelled products, to protect public safety. That’s a no-brainer.
Secondly, it makes perfect sense to have a group of industry savvy individuals navigate through what I’m sure is a quagmire of legal issues that will likely take years to resolve. It’s also obvious that there would be a cost in time and dollars in order to do this, and that having done so it will protect the industry as a whole and ensure its survival.
Getting agreement to proper classification of the products also seems beneficial to all.
You have helped outline some of the jurisdictional issues and document issues. Thanks.
The bad:
You have alluded to regulatory bodies, enforcement bodies, and policy makers, but you have not indicated to what, if any, degree they have expressed interest in participating in the process you’ve outlined, and if you have been in contact with them what their directives are. The obstacles to fruition should be outlined as well, at least in a general sense. You have mentioned statutes, but while I understand you wouldn’t want to frame legal arguments openly bringing up the major issues and stumbling blocks shouldn’t be a problem. Experts within the community who may have experience with the pertinent issues may bring knowledge and experience in those areas forward and at little or no cost. You do yourselves a disservice by not exploring this option, in the interest of reducing overall costs. There may be customs/legal/government/logistics experts here that could help.
What incentive is there for a seller to join ECTA? Aside from being able to add a small voice to the process (at a not insignificant cost I would imagine) what will set the non-member apart from the member? In a community this small word of mouth from regular users, price, and perceived product will probably count for more than the affiliate sticker. It would add only a little cachet, much like having a BBB membership does now. Ultimately if all have to follow the same laws the benefit to belonging to ECTA would seem to be unclear. Anon-ECTA member is not necessarily a non-compliant vendor. What is the value proposition to the new ECTA member once the main mandate has been achieved?
The response regarding choices indicates that consumers shouldn’t expect more choices, just better informed choices. Since the people buying these products (internet based, mostly) rely on internet information then they rely on each other for information anyway. They self-inform as a community. It’s unlikely that they will be better informed, since the sources for information won’t change too much. With that being said, it does make the less informed safer, and that can’t help but be a good thing.
The ugly:
There is an inconsistency in presentation here. Rachel has pointed out that prices are at a high level in large part because customs seizures have affected overhead. While I understand that ECTA won’t (and shouldn’t) get involved in pricing your response to the question of reduction in pricing should the problem disappear highlights that the consumer fears are largely true. Just because the overhead cost goes away the members of ECTA are not committing to passing any of that savings back to purchasing consumers. Those who cry about “lining pockets” have just reason to think so. Of course, dealers may vary. The message is inconsistent though and you should probably fix that.
You make a strong argument not to buy products from Canadian sellers. Since you have quite reasonably pointed out the dangers of buying from unregulated Canadian sellers the only logical conclusion that a health-conscious vaper can make is to make his/her purchases from regulated vendors abroad, in the UK for instance, until such time as a proper level of testing and security is in place here in Canada. After all, since most sales are internet based and not brick-and-mortar based then there is little reason not to. Shipping must be paid regardless and timing can be adjusted as needed by the consumer. Why should anyone continue to buy from potentially hazardous vendors selling unregulated products?
I am not a member of ECTA. I'm just a noob looking for a little clarity...
Chelly, personally I certainly wasn't implying that the accusations are not true, and I hope you're not implying that this was implied, but simply stating your case because you feel it's necessary to do so.
From an outside perspective, I don't know anything and because no concrete examples have been given, I'm lacking facts and therefore can't make any judgements one way or the other. I feel a lot of hatred and anger going on here and trying to make sense is a bit frustrating, as I'm sure you can imagine.
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