Edition 2 Cartomizers and the Manufacturers Intent

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naviathan

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After the debacle with V4L and several other reviews on the new cartomizers, I started talking with the manufacturer and suppliers about the issues that were brought up. The most recent conversation I think has made a great point on their part. They asked that I voice their concerns using better wording as they have taken notice to the remarks made by some members about the lack of proper English grammar.

Comparing the e-cig to cars (since Americans are obviously very car savvy) they made the comparison of a Ferrari to a standard sedan. As we often do on these forum, we compare new products to old products or even modified products. Yes the new cartomizers create better vapor to start, but they appear to have wicking problems in comparison to what some of us are use to. However, the creators have made the point that you wouldn't smoke a cigarette for 40+ puffs because it would burn out before then. The new cartomizers are intended to be smoked like an actual cigarette. If you want a Ferrari, modify it to be a Ferrari, but it is a standard sedan from the factory. It's a standard sedan with one very important intent, safety. Their concerned with the FDA ban on e-cigs and feel that the old form of cartomizers won't pass FDA testing. They feel the new carts will help alleviate the concerns over an FDA ban by reducing the possibility of burning materials in the cartomizer creating an adverse effect in testing.

Personally, I think this is a valid response. We've been testing these "sedans" on a race track hoping to get Ferrari performance. Maybe we should look at letting them cruise the streets and look good in front of the FDA concerns. Once someone modifies them and drops in hemi then we can take them to race track. I'm not saying these are the end all to cartridges, or that they are perfect as they stand, just that they are better if nothing else in respect to health and safety to the user.
 

naviathan

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Please pardon my ignorance on the subject. But if the new cartomizers only last the length of time of one cigarette, and they cost around $10 for a 5 pack, Does this mean we will be paying $40 for the equivilent of a pack? I'd have to go back to analogs before that.

I apologize, I should have been more clear. They will vape for far longer and they can be refilled, although some are finding issues with refilling the intended way (that's for another post). The new carts will apparently get a bit dry if they're vaped for more than an undetermined amount of puffs. After this point they have to be set aside and allowed to wick more fluid into the coil.
 

cozzicon

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Please pardon my ignorance on the subject. But if the new cartomizers only last the length of time of one cigarette, and they cost around $10 for a 5 pack, Does this mean we will be paying $40 for the equivilent of a pack? I'd have to go back to analogs before that.

That's what I was thinking. I'm not much of a fan of cartomizers to be honest- and this latest stuff doesn't help.

What I want as a nicotine addict and a consumer, is a cheap, refillable solution that doesn't taste like ... and has less of a chance of killing me.

Burning cartomizers, no thank you.

I know some people see cartridges VS cartomizers as some kind of religion. To me it's completely pragmatic. And not personal. So I hope no one takes this opinion that way.

But for me... these refillable cartridges work just fine and are reliable.
 

Lightgeoduck

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Ok OP.. I understand your/their point... but I have done tests on these new carts (the Kr8 threading ones.. can't speak of the other ones ) starting off really slow and with care.. and I also tested them as a hardcore vaperer

and you/they are right.. you can't be "drag racing" with these, and they need to be used with care.



I will admit they DO have potential.. and they can produce..

So yes .. vaping them .. as a "Ferrari" you will get terrible results

But, they still need (IMO) a little bit of redesigning/improvements to even be considered a "sedan"

right now.. they are more like a "Yugo" they are nice to drive.. but as they stand a little too high maintenance.

Not a total waste.. but to ignore the needed improvements is doing an injustice to the start of a great concept..

I won't give them a "F" but I won't give them an "A" as it stands now... again this is speaking of the kr8 threaded ones..
 

mistinthewoods

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That's what I was thinking. I'm not much of a fan of cartomizers to be honest- and this latest stuff doesn't help.

What I want as a nicotine addict and a consumer, is a cheap, refillable solution that doesn't taste like ... and has less of a chance of killing me.

Burning cartomizers, no thank you.

I know some people see cartridges VS cartomizers as some kind of religion. To me it's completely pragmatic. And not personal. So I hope no one takes this opinion that way.

But for me... these refillable cartridges work just fine and are reliable.

How dare you speak ill of our beloved carto!?! It's heresy I say! Blasphemy! To utter negative remarks and put forth disrespectful statements about the one that has redeemed me from a life of dripping and driving! I put thee behind me cozzicon!
 

naviathan

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A PV isn't a cigarette though. You don't get the same nicotine hit per puff and won't treat one exactly like a cigarette. Also wicking speed is a valid concern for people especially heavy vapers for whom it's a very limiting factor.

We've had some reviews saying that they wick just fine, so I would say, as with any vaping product, some people will like it and some won't.

That's what I was thinking. I'm not much of a fan of cartomizers to be honest- and this latest stuff doesn't help.

What I want as a nicotine addict and a consumer, is a cheap, refillable solution that doesn't taste like ... and has less of a chance of killing me.

Burning cartomizers, no thank you.

I know some people see cartridges VS cartomizers as some kind of religion. To me it's completely pragmatic. And not personal. So I hope no one takes this opinion that way.

But for me... these refillable cartridges work just fine and are reliable.

The new cartomizers don't burn, or at least that's the intent. There is no filler in them to burn so they're safer in that respect.

They've asked that I iterate the point that they only support refilling up to 4 times. After that they recommend replacing the cart. On that point I'd say your mileage will vary.

I think the idea here is:
1. Don't chain vape these, it won't work.
2. Lets get over the FDA hurdle and help improve the design as we go. I'm sure come constructive criticism could go a long way and the fact that the manufacturers are reading these posts says a lot for their attempts to create a better vaping experience.
 

cozzicon

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We've had some reviews saying that they wick just fine, so I would say, as with any vaping product, some people will like it and some won't.



The new cartomizers don't burn, or at least that's the intent. There is no filler in them to burn so they're safer in that respect.

They've asked that I iterate the point that they only support refilling up to 4 times. After that they recommend replacing the cart. On that point I'd say your mileage will vary.

I think the idea here is:
1. Don't chain vape these, it won't work.
2. Lets get over the FDA hurdle and help improve the design as we go. I'm sure come constructive criticism could go a long way and the fact that the manufacturers are reading these posts says a lot for their attempts to create a better vaping experience.

I understand the idea of innovation. And support it. I also understand that cartomizers are supposed to be the solution to the cartridge situation which is not quite user friendly.

The point being, that cartomizers seem to me to still be too flawed for my uses. My assessment may or may not be representative of most vapers.

Like I said it's not a religious statement for me... but rather my perception as a consumer.

I would like to see cartomizers work well enough that I would use them. However, I really do like cartridges- maybe I'm weird.
 

naviathan

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I understand the idea of innovation. And support it. I also understand that cartomizers are supposed to be the solution to the cartridge situation which is not quite user friendly.

The point being, that cartomizers seem to me to still be too flawed for my uses. My assessment may or may not be representative of most vapers.

Like I said it's not a religious statement for me... but rather my perception as a consumer.

I would like to see cartomizers work well enough that I would use them. However, I really do like cartridges- maybe I'm weird.

And there's nothing wrong with that opinion, although I'm not sure where it's relevant to the current conversation.

I'm curious though, what would be the perfect cartomizer in your opinion?
 

Lightgeoduck

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And there's nothing wrong with that opinion, although I'm not sure where it's relevant to the current conversation.

I'm curious though, what would be the perfect cartomizer in your opinion?

Please don't take this wrong...

I am sure the manufacturer appreciates you voicing their defense... and you have made their point... But I feel it would be more beneficial if a case was made in defense of a product.. if it was made by someone that actually used the product..

If you have.. please voice your experiences and share what you found as the learning curve to be...

I have already stated my assesments via video and additional posts... and of course that is just my opinion,, and it isn't law, but the conclusions were based off of my tests, even if it can't be considered professional, it is still a unbiased consumer assesment.. and not one from someone that manufactures the product...

as far as what improvements are needed.. or what would be considered a perfect cartomizer.... well if they (anyone for that matter)would read through other threads they would come to a conclusion really quick...
 
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cozzicon

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And there's nothing wrong with that opinion, although I'm not sure where it's relevant to the current conversation.

I'm curious though, what would be the perfect cartomizer in your opinion?

1. No burning.

2. Easily refillable.

3. High capacity.

4. Long life.

From what I know about cartomizers, cartridges still meet those criteria better.
 

naviathan

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Please don't take this wrong...

I am sure the manufacturer appreciates you voicing their defense... and you have made their point... But I feel it would be more beneficial if a case was made in defense of a product.. if it was made by someone that actually used the product..

If you have.. please voice your experiences and share what you found as the learning curve to be...

I have already stated my assesments via video and additional posts... and of course that is just my opinion,, and it isn't law, but the conclusions were based off of my tests, even if it can't be considered professional, it is still a unbiased consumer assesment.. and not one from someone that manufactures the product...

as far as what improvements are needed.. or what would be considered a perfect cartomizer.... well if they (anyone for that matter)would read through other threads they would come to a conclusion really quick...

I'm still waiting for my order, so no I haven't had the opportunity to use them yet. I'm not defending anyone or anything, I'm simply trying to help relay some fuzzy points that I wasn't clear on before. The main point I like here is the FDA fight. I'm impressed that a manufacturer and retailer in another country has taken an interest in the FDA fight here in the US and has attempted to create a viable solution. No it's not perfect, I believe I've reiterated that several times. I was hoping that by posting this thread it would create a more civil conversation that could be passed back to the manufacturer and retailers to impress upon them the importance of the points they missed in the iteration.

1. No burning.

2. Easily refillable.

3. High capacity.

4. Long life.

From what I know about cartomizers, cartridges still meet those criteria better.

Well, that about covers my dream list. The one that I don't think you'll find a manufacturer doing is #4. There has to be a money market here. If it has a long life you're less likely to buy more. Other than that, I think they're on the right track with the Edition 2, just not quite there yet.
 
There has to be a money market here. If it has a long life you're less likely to buy more. Other than that, I think they're on the right track with the Edition 2, just not quite there yet.

Thank you for the input. I believe this company is on the right track with their thinking, and believe it to be just a matter of time until they improve upon these.

I quoted the part I did because I believe that while true to extent, that people would pay more for what they want, thus negating the money market comment. For instance if a carto lasted like an atty but was a great performing carto I'd pay $25 if on average they lasted a month.:2c:
 

naviathan

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Thank you for the input. I believe this company is on the right track with their thinking, and believe it to be just a matter of time until they improve upon these.

I quoted the part I did because I believe that while true to extent, that people would pay more for what they want, thus negating the money market comment. For instance if a carto lasted like an atty but was a great performing carto I'd pay $25 if on average they lasted a month.:2c:

That's a good point, although I think for $25 it better last a couple months. I'm confident that if these don't work out, we'll either see an Edition 3 coming out more to our liking or a whole lot of modded Edition 2's coming out. The design is solid, but the materials involved need work.
 
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