Edition 2 Cartomizers

[BanjoMan]

I for one am much more likely to believe the company who I've been purchasing from for so many months rather than a company who I just now heard about. hahahaha

They did take that letter down, I guess they read all the comments on the forums about how terrible their translation was. Slightly humorous in my opinion lol

Kimmy are you talking about this letter?:
V4L reaction RoyalSmokers electronic cigarette factory in Shenzhen

It's still there.

 

[dohsma]

Kimmy are you talking about this letter?:
V4L reaction RoyalSmokers electronic cigarette factory in Shenzhen

It's still there.

Last night it was linked from their cartomizers page. It no longer is. It referenced ECF, I'm guessing they may want to keep people away from here.

 

[BanjoMan]

Last night it was linked from their cartomizers page. It no longer is. It referenced ECF, I'm guessing they may want to keep people away from here.

Ahh, ok. I never saw a link on their carto page.

 

[daveaball]

Hi all , I was wondering do VFL do cartomiser that will fit joye 510 and do they ship to the UK, many thanks

 

[zbasspro]

Well let hope that they resolve the issues, whether viewed as big or small, because we can all at least agree that a better carto than the current one is necessary. They ended by wishing everyone best of luck V4L included. In the end we all have the same desire, and hopefully it will come to fruition .

 

[BanjoMan]

The other day my brother-in-law remarked that we should start an e-cig dealership and "clean up".

My response to him: ARE YOU NUTS?!?

Apparently he hasn't spent much time on the forum.

 

[Adrenalynn]

I've dealt a LOT with importing and manufacturing in China [in an unrelated industry].

That letter is typical of the response. They will all, to a factory, deny emphatically any problem exists until they find a solution. Then suddenly they'll ship a solution with no explanation, no apologies, and no admission of there ever having been a problem. If they never find a solution, they'll go to their proverbial collective grave denying there ever was a problem.

Believe me, I have no xenophobia (as the regulars can tell you from my posting record), and I do tens of millions of dollars in business with China [at current rate, over a hundred million dollars with them this year]). I have native staff there, and American staff there. I have no problem accepting (and playing by) their negotiating "rules" and "tactics".

I'm just advising others who don't have experience with them to take the statements with a grain of salt until they've observed for themselves...

 

[maxx]

Reading the posts....and the "open letter" at Royal Smokers....

Yep.....looks like an iPhone4 situation for sure.....LOL

 

[magus7091]

Ok... my summary of the letter (short short version) : We want to sell these, v4l is lying and making up excuses, it's their liquid that's the problem. They don't want anyone else making money. They're evil and their customers are brainwashed. Good luck to them.


Now, off to give these evil people some more of my money, I'm almost out of 555.

 

[zoiDman]

Maybe I’m the only one, but I can understand both sides to this issue.

For the Chinese manufacture, they are sitting on a Huge cash cow and want these cartos screwed onto every e-Cig in the world NOW. They are loosing tons of money everyday that the USA market does not have access to them. And since there is no such thing as Copyright or even Trademark enforcement in China, it is only a matter of weeks before another Chinese’s company is retooled and ready to flood the market with the same carto.

For the USA vendor, they don’t feel the product is ready for retail. They feel that if they take delivery of these carto in the current design state, and under the current sales agreement, that they will not deliver what cartomizer users want. Then they will be stuck with a warehouse full of cartos they can’t sell, a help desk staff that is loaded up with RMA requests and a tarnished name.

So it’s kinda a “Catch-22” for both parties. And it is the Exclusive clause in the sales contract that causes it. Not the carto.

What is so disturbing to me, having dealt with Chinese suppliers for manufacturing tooling, is there constant and consistent lack of quality control. I am constantly amazed when a Chinese supplier will provide sub-standard products for review only to get furious when I would not issue a purchase order.

With the rush to market attitude and letting the end users be the beta testers, vendors set themselves up for failure.

I take my hat off to V4L for not exercising their exclusive contract seeing what they felt was a sub-standard Cartomizer. The reason I say this is not because I am a big V4L fan. In fact, I have never purchased anything from them.

No, the reason I praise them is because V4L lost the Potential to make a substantial amount of profits. It is harder and harder to find decision makers in a company who will turn down Potential for profits verses selling questionable quality products.

 

[maxx]

Forgive my ignorance here...

What exactly were these new cartos supposed to do...other than be new? Generally-speaking, when a new version of an item comes out...it is intended to solve an older problem or make something better. What was it about the premium cartos that needed improving or fixing? Especially since the premos aren't even 6 months old yet.

Hell....I smoked the same cigarette brand for 20 years. Still taste and puff the same as they did way back then.

 

[Adrenalynn]

China has standard intellectual property enforcement, although they do it in a little non-standard way. Part of the requirement for joining the WTO was related to intellectual property rights. I have a handful of patents issued in China.

 

[zoiDman]

China has standard intellectual property enforcement, although they do it in a little non-standard way. Part of the requirement for joining the WTO was related to intellectual property rights. I have a handful of patents issued in China.

Do They? And who might enforce it?

Last time I was in China, a year ago, it was the Wild, Wild West when it came to Copyrights and Trademarks.

 

[Adrenalynn]

Forgive my ignorance here...

What exactly were these new cartos supposed to do...other than be new?

They allegedly don't burn, harbor less bacteria, and last longer.

The bacteria thing interests me. Unless we're really talking virii (which I, of course, can't observe), I am seeing that slides prepared from week-old cartomizers are far cleaner than my tap water, and equivalent to filtered tap water (Pur consumer-grade filter). Anyone else prepped and examined slides from their batting?

 

[Adrenalynn]

Do They? And who might enforce it?

Last time I was in China, a year ago, it was the Wild, Wild West when it came to Copyrights and Trademarks.

How did you observe this? By what method? Were you seeking intellectual property protection, or were you prosecuting (or defending) intellectual property rights?

 

[Adrenalynn]

In answer to your question, they're in WIPO. And were under the authority of the Paris Convention even back in the late 1980's. And the Madrid Agreement in the 1990's.

Search for the Sino-US Agreement on Intellectual Property Rights.

Patents and Copyright are covered by the State's Intellectual Property Rights Office, as memory serves, and Trademarks by State's Administration for Business and Commerce, I believe. I don't do any trademark work there. And this, of course, has nothing in the world to do with trademarks anyway. There's no mark usage. It would be Patent Law in question.

[posted as new reply since I was distracted by a phone call]

 

[maxx]

They allegedly don't burn, harbor less bacteria, and last longer.

The bacteria thing interests me. Unless we're really talking virii (which I, of course, can't observe), I am seeing that slides prepared from week-old cartomizers are far cleaner than my tap water, and equivalent to filtered tap water (Pur consumer-grade filter). Anyone else prepped and examined slides from their batting?

Appears reasonable...thanks...

However, just me personally, V4L can stop with the latest short autos they have now, the premium carto, lock in the juice recipes....and I will roll the dice on the Andromeda Strain that might or might not grow in a carto.

 

[Adrenalynn]

Given that PG is a solvent and disinfectant industrially - probably a reasonably safe bet. I wouldn't deliberately put it up against a really nasty Strep or Staph, but it seems like a pretty inhospitable breeding ground. If I had Strep, I'd throw my used cartos out. Other than that - since I dispose of them every couple weeks anyway - I'm not going to personally be jumping up and down unless someone shows me something pretty nasty. Of course - that's not a medical opinion as I'm unqualified to hold such an opinion. Consult a physician (or better yet, get the CDC to send out some applied virologists and disease vector analysts), as always.

 

[zoiDman]

How did you observe this? By what method? Were you seeking intellectual property protection, or were you prosecuting (or defending) intellectual property rights?

I was asked to go to China by a company I used to work for. Some of the companies products, which had portions produced in China, had been massively cloned and were showing up in European markets. I had extensive knowledge of the design and production history of most of the products involved.

The trip was more of a fact finding mission to talk with suppliers/officials and to find out what mechanisms were available to the company for remedies and or prevention of future cloning.

I can only say that perhaps the only other place I have seen that was more corrupt was Mexico. But at least in Mexico, you can bride your way into talking with an public official. That isn’t always the way in China. You have to know people inside the government to get anything done. And even then, the layers upon layers are daunting.

Yes, there is a court system in China. But where the problem is, they don’t really care if a Chinese company ripped off all your designs and is silk screening your, or anyone else logo on your product.

Our group was told many times, “Prosecuting a Chinese Company isn’t good for China.”

In answer to your question, they're in WIPO. And were under the authority of the Paris Convention even back in the late 1980's. And the Madrid Agreement in the 1990's.

Search for the Sino-US Agreement on Intellectual Property Rights.

Patents and Copyright are covered by the State's Intellectual Property Rights Office, as memory serves, and Trademarks by State's Administration for Business and Commerce, I believe. I don't do any trademark work there. And this, of course, has nothing in the world to do with trademarks anyway. There's no mark usage. It would be Patent Law in question.

[posted as new reply since I was distracted by a phone call]

That maybe be so. And it all sounds good at a press conference. But my experiences with China is that they are quick to sign agreements. They just don't feel they have to honor them.

And I have yet to told who you go to for remedy when you have been infringed upon.

 

[Adrenalynn]

Higher People's Court, and if you don't get remedy - then WIPO.

We've successfully prosecuted Patent Infringement in the Higher People's Court half a dozen times. Never found a need to leverage WIPO.