Effect of variable power levels on the yield of total aerosol mass and formation of aldehydes in e-

[Mazinny]

Found this on Reddit. This was published in December, so i'm not sure if it was posted here ( couldn't find it ).

Crude summary : CE4's emit more aldehydes than cigarettes even at low power settings, but the newer atomizers ( that wick efficiently ) a tiny fraction of cigarettes.

Effect of variable power levels on the yield of total aerosol mass and formation of aldehydes in e-cigarette aerosols

 

[verycurious]

seems like vaping with subtank is %99 healthier than analog cigarettes

 

[Mazinny]

Here's a similar study using a kayfun clone and a 1.6 ohm coil.

Correlation of volatile carbonyl yields emitted by e-cigarettes with the temperature of the heating coil and the perceived sensorial quality of the generated vapours

It seems that efficient wicking is key, not power applied. The results with the kayfun were a lot worse than subtank ( even when comparing the kayfun at 15 watts compared to subtank at 25 watts ). Just a quick glance at the second study though, haven't read it in detail.

 

[Lessifer]

It's amazing how using something as intended has such significant effects.

They should have had a twist and swirl machine for the ce4

 

[Lessifer]

Here's a similar study using a kayfun clone and a 1.6 ohm coil.

Correlation of volatile carbonyl yields emitted by e-cigarettes with the temperature of the heating coil and the perceived sensorial quality of the generated vapours

It seems that efficient wicking is key, not power applied. The results with the kayfun were a lot worse than subtank ( even when comparing the kayfun at 15 watts compared to subtank at 25 watts ). Just a quick glance at the second study though, haven't read it in detail.

Efficient wicking and good airflow, both of which keep the coil temp down to the point where the aerosol is produced as opposed to burning the liquid.

The kayfun was a 1.6 ohm nichrome coil, though I didn't catch the gauge. Seemed like a lot of wire to be in a kayfun when I first read it though.

 

[Kent C]

The 'money line' for the ANTZ will be this:

"Formaldehyde and acrolein yields for one device exceeded both the yield from combustible cigarettes (20 per day) and the OSHA limit at the maximum power level tested, produced formaldehyde almost 10 times the OSHA workplace exposure limit." All else will be ignored....

Not the first time this is happened and not the last. And not the last time to continue to repost this stuff either. Got anything new on diacetyl?

 

[Mazinny]

Efficient wicking and good airflow, both of which keep the coil temp down to the point where the aerosol is produced as opposed to burning the liquid.

The kayfun was a 1.6 ohm nichrome coil, though I didn't catch the gauge. Seemed like a lot of wire to be in a kayfun when I first read it though.

This sorta reminds me of something @zoiDman was alluding to in a different thread. Something about stop talking about vaping as if it's one thing.

 

[Mossy]

"From these results, it is clear that it is impossible to accurately estimate EC aerosol yield
based on the coil resistance alone and that calculations based on
power applied to the coil can only estimate the EC aerosol yield."

"Our results demonstrate that the amount of aldehydes in EC aerosols
varies by device and the power applied to the atomizer coil. An
increase in the efficiency of aerosol production with increasing
power supplied to the atomizer was correlated with lower levels of
aldehydes in the EC aerosol."

"Device 1
was examined and found to be charred, an indication of thermal
decomposition. The charred coil, the observed decrease in yield in
mg/watt production at the highest power level, and the elevated
levels of aldehydes and acrolein, all indicate that the results for
Device 1 may not represent typical usage of this device, we hy-
pothesize, and a typical user might experience noxious dry-puff
effects and discontinue use at that power setting. However, deter-
mination of dry-puffs is outside of the scope of this study since dry-
puffs can only be confirmed by sensory evaluation of the aerosol by
a user (Farsalinos et al., 2015)"

"One also needs to consider that, in
terms of actual risks from aldehyde toxicity to the user, it is very
possible that when significant thermal decomposition of an EC
liquid is occurring, commonly called the dry-puff phenomenon(Farsalinos et al., 2015), the aerosol produced may be quite noxious,and cause the user to discontinue use until the dry-puff issue is
resolved."

Yep most people don't continue puffing do they?..............it would be like smoking a filter on an anologue.

 

[Mossy]

I mostly like the bit about Device 1

 

[Lessifer]

This sorta reminds me of something @zoiDman was alluding to in a different thread. Something about stop talking about vaping as if it's one thing.

This was definitely a better attempt. Atomizer, power, airflow, technique, liquid viscosity, all are variables in device efficiency and no two are exactly the same.

CE4's need to be tilted to wick properly, and swirled so both wicks get wet. Protanks should be held vertically, not horizontally. etc. longer slower draw on ce4's and protanks, stronger faster draws on sub tanks.

 

[Mazinny]

This was definitely a better attempt. Atomizer, power, airflow, technique, liquid viscosity, all are variables in device efficiency and no two are exactly the same.

CE4's need to be tilted to wick properly, and swirled so both wicks get wet. Protanks should be held vertically, not horizontally. etc. longer slower draw on ce4's and protanks, stronger faster draws on sub tanks.

One of the authors ( the first study ) is a vaper ( @Kurt ) and the rest are the people at Enthalpy Labs.

 

[Lessifer]

One of the authors ( the first study ) is a vaper ( @Kurt ) and the rest are the people at Enthalpy Labs.

Vaping just isn't necessarily something that lends itself well to comparative study, especially between devices.

 

[zoiDman]

I think One Thing that is missing from just about Every Study I have read is the MTTTLSSIGTSUI (Man this thing tasted like ... so I'm going to Stop using it.) Factor.

And I question how Valid some Numerical Levels of Aldehydes are. Seeing that Most people who get a Dry Hit will Not keep hitting on an e-Cigarette. But will Stop. And then go or Join the ECF to figure out what they are doing Wrong.

 

[Mossy]

If dry puffs cab only be detected by sensory evaluation of the user (I'm happy to see that stated) why do we have so many labs testing with auto machines?

 

[Lessifer]

Well, the other study posted had a vaper checking the build and voltage, but I bet they didn't model his puff cycle for the various devices. In fact I believe they did a 3s 50ml puff, which seems really low to me.

 

[zoiDman]

If dry puffs cab only be detected by sensory evaluation of the user (I'm happy to see that stated) why do we have so many labs testing with auto machines?

Because Auto Puffing Machines will work for less. And they Don't Need to fill out Medical Release Forms.

 

[zoiDman]

...

"One also needs to consider that, in
terms of actual risks from aldehyde toxicity to the user, it is very
possible that when significant thermal decomposition of an EC
liquid is occurring, commonly called the dry-puff phenomenon(Farsalinos et al., 2015),

...

BTW - This ^^^ is why the FDA is Very Interested in TC (Temperature Control) for future PMTA Applications.

 

[Lessifer]

BTW - This ^^^ is why the FDA is Very Interested in TC (Temperature Control) for future PMTA Applications.

but it's so unnecessary.... Not that it's not a good thing, I know people like not having to worry about their wicks burning. I don't worry about my wicks burning either, because I can tell when they're starting to go dry.

 

[zoiDman]

but it's so unnecessary.... Not that it's not a good thing, I know people like not having to worry about their wicks burning. I don't worry about my wicks burning either, because I can tell when they're starting to go dry.

I think you have to look at Temp Control thru the Eyes of a Regulator. And Not thru the Eyes of a Vaper.

How many Studies have we seen where the Real Culprit has been Results based on Dry Hit? Now think of going to the FDA and telling them that I have a Patent on a Circuit Board that will prevent Thermal Run-Away?

And you tell them that No Thermal Run-Away = No Toxins due to Thermal Breakdown.

What Regulator would Not see this as a Good Thing? If Not, a Necessary Thing? If Not, part of the Reason that Regulations are Needed?

 

[Lessifer]

I think you have to look at Temp Control thru the Eyes of a Regulator. And Not thru the Eyes of a Vaper.

How many Studies have we seen where the Real Culprit has been Results based on Dry Hit? Now think of going to the FDA and telling them that I have a Patent on a Circuit Board that will prevent Thermal Run-Away?

And you tell them that No Thermal Run-Away = No Toxins due to Thermal Breakdown.

What Regulator would Not see this as a Good Thing? If Not, a Necessary Thing? If Not, part of the Reason that Regulations are Needed?

preferably one who does not see "available" as "necessary."

Like a biometric lock on a smart phone. It may help make your phone more secure, but it isn't necessary, or even wanted by many users.