eGo-T 1000 mAh batteries

[Tol]

ok, so i just got a pair of 1000 mAh eGo-T batteries from LF.
I plug one into an eGo USB charger, red light comes on, all set
I plug the other one into my riva charger, red light comes on, all set

After about 20 minutes, both lights are green. This seems REALLY quick! I know people say new batteries typically come with like a 75% charge on them already, but 20 min still seems really fast.

Anyway,

Should I leave these on there longer?
Which school of thinking should I be listening to about batteries?

I see stuff supporting the fact that Li-Ion batteries do not have memory, don't suffer if short charged, etc... and that as long as the light is green, I can use them.

I have seen someone say that you shouldn't let the battery run completely dead before recharging, others say you MUST run until dead before recharging.


With my riva batteries, I started with 8 hour charge like the instructions said to do. Since then I have been topping them off here and there, they rarely go completely dead. I have issues with one of them now I think, it has died really quick on me twice now, so I am thinking its defective.

Sorry to seem so noobish, I even had a lot of the same questions when I got my Riva, which people basically said, charge them whenever, cause there is no memory, just wanted to get vet opinions on what is best to max their life? They are a bit more expensive than standards, so i don't want to trash them or anything.

Thanks

 

[Kurt]

Batts generally come mostly charged, so 20 min to full charge is reasonable for a new batt. Chargers for these types of batteries wiill shut off current to the battery when it is charged so it should be safe to leave it on the charger after it is charged. Never had any issues with mine, and I've been charging batts for many months now.

Li-ion ecig batts stop vaping when the voltage falls below a preset threshold, not at 0V, so its not likely you are draining them entirely. More likely they are around 2V or so.

You get about 300 charging cycles for the average Li-ion battery, give or take some 10s of cycles. They like to be "topped off", or so the general tech lore goes, and so running them down to the point of not vaping and then charging them over and over might cut down on the lifetime. That is what the general info is on them. That said, I am using 510 batteries that I have had for over a year. In the dozens I have, I've only had one get to the point of not charging anymore, although the time between needed charges does somewhat decrease over time.

Charge them up. Leave them on the charger if you don't get to them. Vape how you vape and recharge them. Many here put them on the charger when they start getting a bit weak. In my experience the difference between a bit weak and flashing LED is a couple hits. Perhaps I could be extending the life longer by changing one of my habits of vaping and charging, but it doesn't seem to make much difference.

OTOH, I do not use LR attys, and the lowest resistance of my cartos is about 2.5 ohms, so not really LR. LR attys will pull a lot more current from a batt than regular ones, and Li-ions don't really like a large current drain. It tends to create reactions in the batt material that lead to unrechargable products, and so over time they will more quickly lose their original mAh's. That's just part of the electrochemistry of these batts. But even that is largely just words of caution. I don't know of any actual examples of killing batteries completely with LR attys.

The general lifetime of a batt is around three months. That what is said, anyway. As I said above though, virtually all of mine are still going strong after a year. Of course, YMMV.

 

[skydragon]

Batts generally come mostly charged, so 20 min to full charge is reasonable for a new batt. Chargers for these types of batteries wiill shut off current to the battery when it is charged so it should be safe to leave it on the charger after it is charged. Never had any issues with mine, and I've been charging batts for many months now.

Li-ion ecig batts stop vaping when the voltage falls below a preset threshold, not at 0V, so its not likely you are draining them entirely. More likely they are around 2V or so.

You get about 300 charging cycles for the average Li-ion battery, give or take some 10s of cycles. They like to be "topped off", or so the general tech lore goes, and so running them down to the point of not vaping and then charging them over and over might cut down on the lifetime. That is what the general info is on them. That said, I am using 510 batteries that I have had for over a year. In the dozens I have, I've only had one get to the point of not charging anymore, although the time between needed charges does somewhat decrease over time.

Charge them up. Leave them on the charger if you don't get to them. Vape how you vape and recharge them. Many here put them on the charger when they start getting a bit weak. In my experience the difference between a bit weak and flashing LED is a couple hits. Perhaps I could be extending the life longer by changing one of my habits of vaping and charging, but it doesn't seem to make much difference.

OTOH, I do not use LR attys, and the lowest resistance of my cartos is about 2.5 ohms, so not really LR. LR attys will pull a lot more current from a batt than regular ones, and Li-ions don't really like a large current drain. It tends to create reactions in the batt material that lead to unrechargable products, and so over time they will more quickly lose their original mAh's. That's just part of the electrochemistry of these batts. But even that is largely just words of caution. I don't know of any actual examples of killing batteries completely with LR attys.

The general lifetime of a batt is around three months. That what is said, anyway. As I said above though, virtually all of mine are still going strong after a year. Of course, YMMV.

The parts that I bolded are statements that I don't understand although I have read them before. If you are supposed to get approx.300 charges from a batt, that would be around ten months if charged once daily. I think most people have at least two batts so you would only need on recharge a day right? For the most part at least? Yet it is also said that the average life is three months. That doesn't make sense to me. Can someone explain that to me. Thanks.

 

[The Big Chief]

I have tested the theories of batteries in search of destroying them. I did without 8 hour charges, drained out of the box, left on all night, pulled off halfway through charge, charged halfway into vaping, you name it. Lithium Ions are good stuff. Charge at will, pull off at will. Their almost indestructible. I even chucked one out a window going 60 down the highway, turned around, and fired it up....it was 5 foot drop. Ive also seen one withstand 1500 degrees (an ego), and fire up like nothing happened. (fire inspector said it was 1500 degrees in the room, not sure I can believe it, but Im no inspector either). Simply put, I have yet to be able to PURPOSEFULLY kill the lifespan of any bat, short of a sledgehammer.
To answer your 3 month question - I replace mine every 3 months (mega 510 batts)...namely cause they only hold a 2 hour charge by then (at half life by then), but thats only reason. I have yet to drain a batt to where it wont charge..ever. But average batt lasts 6 months if ya milk them (standard or mega), so egos should go a year unless your using low res. (due to less charging cycles daily)
Low res will kill a batt quickly. Not to the point of no charge, but just drops the mah and run time down DRAMATICALLY quick. I can kill 4000 mah a day, in under 2 weeks of having 2-1000 mah batts, using Low res. Its nuts. And switching back to standard atties, still kill 2000 mah...If never used low res, I can run 12-16 hours on 1000 mah.
To answer OP on green light quickly.
Ive also had some batts (talking 510, mega 510 and ego) have both almost full charge-green light in 10 minutes or less, and some that took almost full time to charge, fresh out of the box.
In experiencing batts that have set in tackle box, both fully and partially charged before said period, Im convinced that lith- ion as all batteries just deplete with time being unused. By deplete I mean charge, not lifespan. This could be an indicator of shelf life before actual end consumer use, or simply not charged as much from factory. No way to know either way, but simple knowledge Ive learned. But it explains some batts taking 10 minutes, others taking 2 hours fresh out of box.

 

[rolygate]

Li-ion batteries suffer from myths due to the fact that Ni-cad rechargeables are temperamental, and people assume that Li-ion cells are similar. They're not. They have no memory, as Ni-cads have, so initial conditioning (long) charges, full discharges to flat, only ever charging to full, leaving on for a time after they reach full charge - are all irrelevant. These have no validity for Li-ion cells as they have a different chemistry.

However, like any battery of any type, charging them incompletely will shorten their service life. In other words, if a full charge is to 4.25 volts, but they are only ever charged to 4.1 volts, this eventually harms the battery. And like almost all batteries, Ni-cads being an exception, taking them down below a certain voltage will also damage them. This is why protected batteries have a cut-off, and flash an indicator light. Be aware there is a debate about exactly what the 'lowest voltage' is for a Li-ion cell, as different manufacturers quote different numbers, and therefore it might pay to take the highest number quoted and then add a fudge factor to that (as manufacturers tend to over-advertise their products' abilities - honest numbers are hard to come by). Also, over-current charging will damage them - a charger has to limit the current it supplies to the cell, and the higher the current, the more likely it is to shorten the service life.

A couple of these factors are interesting because there is a difference between the USB chargers (or 'fast' chargers) and the standard 510 charger (or 'slow' charger). I can't say if this applies to all chargers, but mine exhibit these characteristics:
- When the charge is complete on a USB charger, and the indicator shows full charge has been reached, placing the battery on the standard/slow charger will result in an additional, extended charge time. This shows it charges to a higher voltage, which is better for the cell. (Assuming of course that it doesn't exceed the max recommended voltage.)
- The USB charger is faster, therefore it delivers higher current, therefore in the long run it is not as good for the cell as a slow charger.

My large-format 510 batteries (Tornado) last for many months, using LR atties only, with only a standard slow 510 charger used, and the USB charger just kept as a backup.

The batteries are rotated (ie I've got several and use them in turn), they are only put on the slow charger, and they are never taken down to fully dead / indicator flashing showing as flat. So, things that help a Li-ion reach its designed service life are:
1. Charging them to the highest recommended voltage.
2. Charging them slowly.
3. Not taking them down to fully-discharged.
4. Having several and using them in turn.

Not applying frequent high-current loads (ex: LR atties) may also help - but if (a) a battery is of good quality, and (b) the battery is otherwise treated correctly, in my experience it has little if no effect. Using LR atties of 1.5 or 1.6 ohms, and nothing else, certainly hasn't affected mine anyway.

Individual usage characteristics may play a part here of course: with a stock atty I need to take a 6 to 8 second inhale in order to 'get anything'. With a good LR atty (and they can vary a lot), 3 or 4 seconds does it for me. Now if the user has an asbestos-lined throat and lungs, and still takes that 8-second hit, it may well have some effect on the service life of the battery, because the load time is doubled over my requirement.

Things that may reduce the service life of a Li-ion are:
1. Fast, high-current charging.
2. Not taking the cell to its highest voltage.
3. Taking it down to the indicator flashing as dead.
4. Putting a high load on for a longer time.
5. Using one or two batteries hard until they are knackered.

So you pays your money and you takes your choice...


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@skydragon
All statements about lifetimes etc are generalisations, usually optimal ones. Most people won't get 300 charges because (a) the batteries aren't of the highest possible quality, they are made to a price; and (b) because all the various factors in charging and use are not ideal.

But as you say, any generalisation #1 may not line up with another generalisation #2. Perhaps 150 recharges might be a good average for e-cig use? Some will get a lot more, some a lot less. You'd throw away the 'fliers' at each end - batts lasting 1 month or 14 months, or whatever - and average the rest.

A nice project for someone